Do You Have a Post-TEOTWAWKI Trade?
Mr. Creekmore,
I am a regular reader of your Survival Blog and appreciate your insights, advice and hard work.
As you too are a recent reader of Mr. Rawle’s How to survive teotwawki
, I was wondering what your opinion is of his admonition that everyone should have an “iron age occupation” to fall back on?
, I was wondering what your opinion is of his admonition that everyone should have an “iron age occupation” to fall back on?For my part, I am a novice beekeeper
and intend to sell/trade honey (and its attendant by-products: wax candles, mead, etc.). I am also learning about brewing beer, and I am trying to gain knowledge and experience in making traditional Cherokee-style moccasins. I share 5 acres of my land with a truck farmer and there will be an increased need for food in the upcoming years even if there is no quick-slide SHTF situation, and I will use food production
to the economic advantage of me and mine as well.
and intend to sell/trade honey (and its attendant by-products: wax candles, mead, etc.). I am also learning about brewing beer, and I am trying to gain knowledge and experience in making traditional Cherokee-style moccasins. I share 5 acres of my land with a truck farmer and there will be an increased need for food in the upcoming years even if there is no quick-slide SHTF situation, and I will use food production to the economic advantage of me and mine as well.Just out of curiosity, I was wondering what your fallback iron age occupation is?
Thanks, and I look forward to your response.
Gallowglass, one area where James Rawle’s and I disagree is what will happen after economic collapse. From what I’ve gathered reading his writings – he believes the government at all levels will simply go away or cease to exist, after such an economic event.
If we look at history we see that this isn’t realistic. As I’ve said before governments do not relinquish power easily and economic collapse will not guarantee an end to government. I know this is a survivalist wet-dream but in reality it’s not very realistic.
For example let’s look at The Great Depression of the 1930s , Russian collapse of 1998 , Argentine economic crisis (1999–2002), Zimbabwe etc., as bad things were, each had one thing in common – government did not go away and often became more oppressive and controlling.
Besides more oppressive governmental control, massive unemployment and a decrease of GDP after economic collapse, we will likely see a redistribution of resources (they take what you have and distribute it among themselves or others) an increase of violent crime and home invasion, more drug abuse, prostitution and vice, starvation among the poor and a lower standard of living for all but the wealthy.
Another area where I tend to disagree with many survival planners is that after an economic collapse, we will suddenly revert to early 19th century technology and way of life. This idea has long been popular with Kurt Saxon
and others but again it’s not very realistic when we look at recent history for example.
and others but again it’s not very realistic when we look at recent history for example.Economic collapse is not a time machine that will send us back to the past. So don’t expect to get rich pounding on a blacksmith anvil, sewing coats from raw hide, fur trapping, crafting wooden barrels or wagon-wheels etc. These skills are good to learn on a personal level just don’t expect the world to beat a path to your door…
So what trades, skill and jobs do I think will be viable after economic collapse?
Anything to do with food production, private security, medicine, alternative power, day labor / odd jobs (a lot of competition for available work), transportation (charge a fee to take several of people from point A to point B), repair, prostitution and drug dealing and manufacturing (not recommended for obvious reasons) etc.
, private security, medicine, alternative power, day labor / odd jobs (a lot of competition for available work), transportation (charge a fee to take several of people from point A to point B), repair, prostitution and drug dealing and manufacturing (not recommended for obvious reasons) etc.While I can’t list every conceivable opportunity here – I don’t know your situation or skill set, it is a simple matter to research and brainstorm ideas. You may need to combine two or more trades in order meet your needs. For instance; you could sell/trade honey, work part time as a private security guard or perform day labor as opportunity becomes available.
Remember the more self-reliant
you are the less dependent you will be on outside sources for income to supply your needs. If you can produce your own food, liquor do your own repairs etc., there will be less need to barter for outside sources for these items. Self-reliance is key.
you are the less dependent you will be on outside sources for income to supply your needs. If you can produce your own food, liquor do your own repairs etc., there will be less need to barter for outside sources for these items. Self-reliance is key.My fallback occupation(S) plan isn’t much different from what I do now. Reloading
, gunsmith services, odd jobs, repair work, selling / bartering extra garden produce and egg production.
, gunsmith services, odd jobs, repair work, selling / bartering extra garden produce and egg production. Keep in mind that we’ve been talking about economic collapse here, life after say a worldwide plague, cosmic impact, supervolcano, nuclear exchange or similar event will be different and could in fact send us back to the stone-age or similar. Plan accordingly.
Do you have a Post-TEOTWAWKI trade? What is it?
Related posts:
January 25th, 2010 at 7:20 PM
Great post M.D.
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January 25th, 2010 at 7:39 PM
This is why I read your blog, M.D.
Awesome work. You are a voice of reason.
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January 25th, 2010 at 7:40 PM
I plan on being a pimp since there are no shortage of whores.
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January 25th, 2010 at 7:47 PM
Security, Food production, and safe haven, and repairs of worth while items.
We have been planning for awhile and things are working out. Got the word out and have some people intersted now if things go down..willing to trade goods and security for working here and helping with things that we can't be involved with at that time.
PREPARE FOR THE WORST AND PRAY FOR THE BEST
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January 25th, 2010 at 8:17 PM
BEING IN CONSTRUCTION FOR 25 PLUS YEARS,REPAIR WORK WOULD BE MY IRON AGE OCCUPATION.FROM JAY IN NC
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January 25th, 2010 at 10:17 PM
James Rawles is a joke. This guy is so out of touch with reality and the survival community that his blog is nearly worthless to 99% of those who are prepping.
Reading his stuff is like rereading Mel Tappan from the 70's and 80's just a repeat of what was said 35 years ago.
He seems to be stuck in a rut and can't figure out how to get out. Yet for some reason he thinks he is some sort of survival king. Sad.
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January 25th, 2010 at 11:03 PM
I tried this before – posting, I mean. It didn't work – Let's try again… I'm an ace gardener and sewer. I can grow almost anything in my USDA zone that I want to and do just about anything with a needle, thread and a square of fabric that I want to. It improves my life even without any disasters.
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January 25th, 2010 at 11:49 PM
If you have a job today, it really won't matter in the day after what you made as what people recognize as income, won't be the standard later.
Clean water is the way to go…. depending on region or state because in the winter. But there is that saying, water water everywhere, but not a drop to drink; comes to mind.
If you are a hydrologist (for example) who knows old ways of drilling for water. That would be the "skill" to have when we see that day.
JMHO.
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January 25th, 2010 at 11:59 PM
James Rawles, I'm sure, is very well off. I'll bet that he doesn't care who bashes him, or why. He like any other entertainer knows the audience to which he plays! And they go to his sponsors,buy their stuff and send him money. They enjoy their hobby and some of them even know better. It's not sad, it's America! And he is the king of all he purveys…
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January 26th, 2010 at 1:56 AM
You are the man Creekmore. A voice of reason in a world of blowhards. So many get it wrong when they think economic collapse = government collapse. Most survivalblogs are full of crap and just bad information. Thank you for standing above the crowd.
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January 26th, 2010 at 1:57 AM
Anonymous 6:59 PM looks like you are a JWR (old money bags) fan now that is sad.
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January 26th, 2010 at 1:59 AM
Great post. And you are correct the best way to predict what will happen after a collapse is to look at history where it has already happened.
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January 26th, 2010 at 2:01 AM
Ya leave the make believe to the movies and Rawles books. He should know better.
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January 26th, 2010 at 2:04 AM
My post collapse trade will be taking from the rich (you) and giving to the poor (me).
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January 26th, 2010 at 2:05 AM
Hunting / trapping and bartering the meat.
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January 26th, 2010 at 2:21 AM
First of all I am with M.D. that the government won't go away. Here in central Illinois the first group of looters will be shot, so the government along with the U.N. troops will be our greatest physical threat. My iron age occupations will be repairs of almost anything and fabrication,security as in can and will shoot and trained to,some medical as I am EMT trained, and as I already garden,some food stuffs. Short of an all out bug-out,I'm pretty well prepared and set here on the homestead. It's coming,we better be ready.
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January 26th, 2010 at 2:35 AM
im going to open a donut shop and house of prostitution combo.
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January 26th, 2010 at 2:46 AM
Skills/Jobs that will be in high demand after SHTF, but that will pay off now in the real world:
Power production – solar, wood gas, hydro, wind, steam, diesel conversion from waste or vegetable oil – Learn the most applicable power production source for your area first, and get necessary plans and tools. Also learn alternate methods if you have time.
Water drilling & purification – You'll need a lot of equipment and knowledge, but you'll be in high demand.
Medical – doctors, emt, nursing – people will always get sick and need care
Chemist / Pharmacist – have a laboratory with a supply of stable chemicals/compounds and know how to mix them into useful items for the garden, demolition, or health (have copies of patents from the early 20th century to make penicillin, sulfa drugs, insulin, aspirin, morphine, etc.)
Electrician / Electronics – manipulate modern machinery to work on 12v, rewire houses to run on 12v, fix/adapt communications and electronic devices, keep computers running to get to digitally stored books, manuals, etc.
Machinist – rebuild or replace broken parts on engines and machinery that can still run. Make sure you have a low power lathe, drill, mill with all the necessary tools and the power source to keep them running.
Saw mill – similar to the one run by the Walton family on "the Waltons" TV show. People will need fresh lumber, and scrap can be burned for heat or woodgas.
Flea market owner – every town will need a market where people can sell their wares just like they did in the old days, because people will not be able to afford to drive/walk 20-30 miles away to go to the gigantic flea markets or walmarts. Locate and buy the right property now and start the business before SHTF – weekends only – while you still have a job during the week. Several things to prebuild at the flea market 1) a car wash that can be re-plumbed to be a bath house 2) a centrally located covered snack bar that can be converted to a bar / restaurant once zoning rules are relaxed 3) Some defensive features that are dual purpose to camauflage them until SHTF – a blockhouse/storage unit, a moat/drainage ditch, vehicle proof fence and gates in areas not protected by moat/ditch, etc.
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January 26th, 2010 at 3:02 AM
I'm studying information technology and computer programming. After a collapse the first thing that's going to need to be done is to get internet porn sites back up and running.
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January 26th, 2010 at 3:05 AM
Mechanic,
Sounds like you have worked out a plan that is right for you and your personal situation – congratulations.
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January 26th, 2010 at 3:06 AM
Jack
Great list – thank you for posting.
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January 26th, 2010 at 5:15 AM
Tell the man, keep brewing brews. We're all gonna wanna do…
I garden. I'll need bees.
I drink. I grow herb[s].
Community and trade.
Ah– learn some medical treatment skills.
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January 26th, 2010 at 5:56 AM
I agree. Everyone has this fantasy of living in a post-apocalyptic world where they can do what they want, when they want. Bull. The Dark Ages had plenty of government and the new dark ages will as well. I do think in some respects the government will be ineffective in control the populace of America because unlike most other places we are A)heavily armed and B)seeing a resurgence of anti-government attitudes.
My only area of disagreement with most here is the "I'll work security" theory. You won't. Most people who need security already have it and they are going to want pros after TEOTWAWKI not people with WSHTF.com challenge coins. Bartering and trading are what's going to be big, and even in places like Argentina where Grey markets are set up by community security is farmed out (by necessity) to gangs.
There's some room for "primitive skills" in very rural areas where people already are left alone, but the local gov isn't going to let you and your survival partners set up a bronze age fortress just because their dollars are worthless.
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January 26th, 2010 at 10:17 AM
No, no, no. Don't mind me M.D. Tell me to research the history of and continuity of government and then slam a post covering it. Thanks alot. Just kidding, really!
As you have stated, history is simply the flow of government from one authority to another, the ebb and flow of freedoms and restrictions, prosperity and misery. The one constant thru out history is government. Anyone who thinks "Madmax" will be the order of the day is being dishonest with themselves. If we are VERY lucky it will be on the order of "The postman", small communities, self sufficient self governed and attempting to keep from being absorbed by the larger ( more powerful) collective. Lucky would be Argentina. Very bad would be Ukraine circa 1932-33.
Government will always be with us. It is the basis of our families, communities, counties, states and countries. Your family is a "government unto itself". and so on.
The important question that must be asked of all preppers is how will you react when (not if) the government comes a knockin'?
Try and anticipate the questions that will come.
This is much shorter than what I have compiled for you M.D. but you pretty much covered everything without going into the mountains of useless data.
I do want to thank you for covering the topic again.
Jerry
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January 26th, 2010 at 1:01 PM
Chemist/biochemist/microbiologist
Think about it:
Glue, antiseptics, antibiotics, bleach, food preservatives, explosives (yes farmers, or were you going to dig those stumps out of your fields?) Yeast beds, mushroom/algae cultures, chemical fertilizer, dye, drugs (medical, recreational, …)
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January 26th, 2010 at 1:14 PM
Damn it Creekmore I was gonna be new mad max,another fantasy shot to hell.Hey Jack how do you run metal lathe on low power 12v etc,That would be a dynamite post!Good work M.D.
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woodyrod Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 6:25 PM
chinasyndrome, you can drive a lathe via many means. Use an old agricultural windmill (when the wind is blowing), belt from a vehicle wheel in low gear, old tractor, diesel pump motor, anything that has a driving shaft/pulley, horse/human power etc.
A good reason to use a geared head lathe, or better yet, an old (and often worthless) belt driven lathe from the 1800’s.
This type of gear is extremely useful, as it is impossible to make shafts, gears etc without them. Shafting is used on ANYTHING that rotates: windmills, flour mills, pumps, rotating vehicle parts, gun work etc etc
Also, learn to use hand sharpened tooling. Carbide inserts are fine, but not if you can’t get them. Learn heat treating and carburising as the dudes in the old days did in. This includes making drills and reamers from SCRATCH.
With machining, blacksmithing and gun making from scratch, these will see me good in times of trouble.
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January 26th, 2010 at 1:23 PM
Possibly. I'm an architectural draftsman, and recognize that if SHTF, building materials will be much less common. Not the standard things, but cisterns, highly insulative / bullet resistant materials. So I purchased a block press, a contraption that with moistened cement, soil and lime, will compress them to make block. Comes with tile inserts for floor, as well as lintel blocks for wall openings. CINVA RAM is the name.
Not much, but the Rat On A Stick franchise was already taken, lol.
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January 26th, 2010 at 1:26 PM
I'll bet someone who has some extra solar battery chargers will also make a fortune charging up and trading them to people needing them. Light after dark will become really precious, and though some of us have LEDs ready, far fewer have SOLAR battery chargers that will work after grid is down.
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January 26th, 2010 at 1:48 PM
I go with what Jack posted…
I'm NOT much of a medic, but I can make do!
I am part: chemist, machinist, mechanic, welder, farmer, rancher, electrician, reloader, gunsmith, mill wright, and military trained in varied skills,plus I have law enforcement experience. It's all about being as flexible as you can be…You may have to become a "Jack of all trades-Master of none" in the near future, just to survive. I do a lot of gardening and can make my own distillery to produce a number of things including alcohol.
I work with solar, wind, and gas generators of all kinds…I am working on a large scale "gassifier" unit to produce methane from wood to run several devices….
I was only 11 years old when i learned to make and operate a "still", and soon learned how to make my own gunpowder. That was 47 years ago!
I got better at all of it since!
I can cut firewood, lay asphalt, mix and pour concrete, build a house, and do all the plumbing. I can do septic systems and water purification as well.
Someone once told me, I mmay never be rich, so I may as well be educated! I found that there truly is power in one's knowledge!
I was on a Nuclear facility SWAT team in Arizona, and served in many professional capacities….
Know what's really funny about it all?
I only have a GED, as high school was boring to me and I wanted to learn…they could NOT teach, and I was starved for knowledge.
I did it all myself. I am even licensed (lifetime) by the United States Coast Guard, as a boat manufacturer!
It's all in the way you perceive who and what you are, and where you want to go in life!
Learn, everything you can…
It may save your life!
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January 26th, 2010 at 1:58 PM
As a reply to "Rob Taylor's" post…
That is why I got my land out in the middle of nowhere….VERY Few people would venture into the high desert.
There are some people that have been there already for some time, (years, and they already have their own "trade and barter" system running!
No need for money, and it's working for them today….I was impressed by their ingenuity!
Security, right now is a BIG THING…even where I am. I have a man on site right now, that takes care of things while I am away…
I am looking for more, and other people with skills that are sorely needed…in exchange, they get an equal share in the foods grown, the chickens/meat and eggs, rabbits we raise, and (right now), we have an over-abundance of cotton tails, white tail deer, elk, and prong horn antelope.
We have quite a set-up already, and it's nearly invisible.
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January 26th, 2010 at 2:32 PM
Once again you have hit the nail on the head. Government will never go away. If one level of government has a diminished role or influence another level of government will act quickly to fill the void, and not always for the good. In a post collaspe world I will be involved in garden produce, poultry, martial arts training, security, firearm training/repair, and orchard produce.
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January 26th, 2010 at 2:41 PM
I took my government-recommended flu shot, so everything is going to be alright.
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January 26th, 2010 at 4:53 PM
ChinaSyndrom said "Jack how do you run metal lathe on low power 12v etc,"
When I mentioned low power in my comment, I was trying to differentiate using 120v vs. 240v tools. The best 240v CNC lathe would be great now, but a good 120v manual lathe would be cheaper and the best option after SHTF. However, there are several ways to run metal lathes using 12v:
The best way is to run your 120v metal lathe using 12v is with an inverter that converts your 12v solar powered batteries into 120v power for your lathe or with a woodgas / bio-diesel powered generator that pushes 120v.
There are also 12v "hobby" lathes like the Clisby or Unimat that are metal lathes. These are small, not very powerful, but will cut metal, are 12v, and can run directly off of your solar panels. After SHTF, even a hobby lathe will be greatly appreciated if you can cut a replacement part for your weapon or farming implement.
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January 26th, 2010 at 5:48 PM
Question about grinding wheat etc:
I finally bought a grinding mill. I'm guessing it is a Corona knock-off, but I couldn't find an actual 'corona' anywhere. It is called a Hogar, made in China, but interestingly all of the box is in Spanish! There where no directions and nothing was in English.
I figured out how to put it together, went and got some wheat, and decided to try my first grinding session ever.
Results:
Not good… First, and perhaps most importantly, after I was done grinding the wheat (over and over after I screened it through mesh each time) into what would be the consistency of cream of wheat (not fine enough to be flour), I also noticed many metal shavings in it. I had a magnet that I ran through the mixture out of curiosity and was stunned when I saw how many metal shavings were in it.
Is this common? There was no way I was going to eat it. Thoughts anyone?
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January 26th, 2010 at 5:50 PM
After reading the comments, I will say you all have a great imagination. Don't get me wrong though….
But let's put things into perspective. I mentioned water earlier. Why? Well living here in the great north I have experienced quite a few interesting items that some of you have or have not. Earthquakes.. scarey as heck AND can screw up drinking water well by the pressure via the "formations". When there is an earthquake (and a volcano explosion on the rise) the pressure around the are of the earthquake or volcano can be lowered. You will notice your well almost go dry in some areas of the country. It is true, please look it up. Also, a volcano (we have yellow stone, mt. st. helens, rainier to name a few) will make the water TASTE sulfuric at times as the pressure build up goes back to a minimum.
Now I have been through quite a few earthquakes and volcano's blowing their tops. So it isn't just water wells. It is also the water on the surface that you will have issues with. Ash is and can be deadly, if any of you live on around mt st helens are, you may remember how the water tasted.. gritty and smelled like something burning but not sulfuric, more metallic/battery like taste. That was due to the ash. It won't kill you to drink it, but it CAN make you sick due to the nature of the chemicals produced in the ash. Also earthquakes bring things buried at the bottom of a river, lake etc. up to the surface. The water that was once good can make you sicker then a dog.
This is something to think about. This also coincides with nuclear bombing as the impact of/a bomb can do the same "rippling" (or what they call in the geological word, plastic effect) that a earthquakes does.
Please be aware. This is a great blog to share information, I hope M.D. takes notes.
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January 26th, 2010 at 6:14 PM
I was raised on a farm, farming, processing live stock, fishing & hunting.
We didn't have a lot of money, we bartered with a what we had a quarter of a hog for something, so many bushels of vegetables for something else.
If something broke down we sometimes made parts to fix it.
When/if the SHTF, I think the ones that will have it the worse will be the ones raised on modern conveniences, especially in the urban areas. Just look at the L.A. riots, didn't take a lot to touch that off.
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January 26th, 2010 at 6:55 PM
Bret,
Metal shavings aren't good – where did you buy the mill? Does it have a warranty? If so send it back and demand a refund.
I can't give recommendations on all the models available, because I haven't used them all, I can tell you what I have and my thoughts on these, which should at least get you started in the right direction.
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January 26th, 2010 at 8:28 PM
I think the truth is some where in the middle. I think it is totally correct to say government will not go away. However, government SERVICES will go away. Gov't will become more and more totalitarian and facist to try to control the tiny bit of resources left. "Cops" will have the authority to shoot on-sight for a wide range of minor infractions. Road repairs, water department, building inspectors, educational services, will all go away.
The only thing left of government will be ENFORCEMENT of the ever-tightening laws as govt tries to "catch a falling knife".
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January 26th, 2010 at 8:48 PM
Let me start off by saying I read 2 Different Survival sites EVER DAY, This one and Rawels Survivalblog and check on some of the others when I have spare time. I have read a lot of the “ fiction survival books ( One Second After, Rawels Book . Enemies Foreign and Domestic, book 1 and 2 still have the third one to go, Lights Out, Lost and Found, the first half anyway, ETC ) . First I would say that I have never seen anywere were Rawels say’s that there will be no Government, In the stuff I have read he is saying that in a Major TEOTWAWKI event, that the level of Government that we experience now will not be around. That there will not be Government coming to rescue you and might even be there to hurt you for the good of all. To call Rawels out of touch is a real stretch and a disservice to the mind set of being a survivor. He has probably done more for awareness of surivalism than anyone out there. His site is different than yours, not better not worse just different. And no one site Can or Will fill ever ones needs. Ever one should be checking out multiply sites and meshing all the information into what works best for them. Just my thoughts DW
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January 26th, 2010 at 11:05 PM
Excellent,Thanks Jack.Thanks Creekmore.Yes sir very handy Indeed.
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January 27th, 2010 at 1:31 PM
Interesting how so many can predict the future. Prepare for bad times, because most often, the problem you are expecting will not be the one that comes.
(Although financial meltdown / hyperinflation are high on the list of probability)
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January 27th, 2010 at 3:35 PM
I’ve been reading these articles; blogs, posts & subsequent comments about survival and feel a “global” contextual perspective is needed.
Our country is, without question, run by the extremely wealthy whom interestingly, are not on the Forbes list. They create ALL economic cycles for one single purpose – the protection & expansion of their kingdoms.
Let’s take an objective look at current history via these examples:
First gasoline. The oil reserves & the production process has not changed much in many decades in fact, production methods have improved over time. We have more cars but better fuel efficiency, improved mass transit etc. Yet the price fluctuates and at times makes wide swings (’07 – $50/barrel to ’08 at $130/barrel to ’09 $38/barrel). Why, did we run low on oil & then suddenly find a new reservoir? Hardly. It is purely perceived values being manipulated for profit.
The “silver boom” in the early 1980’s – prices hit unbelievable heights (from $11 per ounce to $50) thanks to Bunker Hunt. Why the swing, were we running out of silver?
And my all time favorite Y2K. Did you prep food, water & batteries for the collapse of our computer driven world? I was in Wal-Mart on New Years Eve watching all of these poor misguided souls pushing shopping carts full of water and batteries for what purpose? How many of you really thought our world would stop because of the computer rollover?
And our present day bank crisis – the trillion dollar TARP bailout was just a smoke & mirror trick – notice how quickly several banks paid it back, while their portfolio foreclosures & non-performing assets increased. Doesn’t that seem odd? (I am a loss mitigation analyst with access to the "real" numbers)
As much as I hate to disagree & be a bubble popper, food shortages will not happen in this country to any significant degree and or worse than anytime before in the US history.
Running and hiding in the hills and being “off the grid” with a Doberman, a years worth of food, solar power, well water & an Uzi is a absurd notion. It’s a great sales pitch, a questionable way to make money from a fear filled audience & an interesting fantasy discussion but that’s all it is, fantasy.
The bottom line is this:
Store your food & ammo for your own comfort & sit in a world of paranoia waiting for that shoe to drop… and wait and wait. Yes unemployment, foreclosures, personal debt will increase to seemingly uncomfortable levels for the next 2-3 years but as for total anarchy? It CANNOT happen.
The aforementioned rulers of our world can & will control the serfs like us because there is simply no profit in mass panic. It’s been this way for centuries.
Finally, IF you’ve got it (food, water, money or anything that is perceived as valuable) and someone wants it bad enough, you will lose it irrespective of your physical location & armament.
You are much better off living in a highly urbanized area & keeping a very low profile because there is strength in numbers.
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January 27th, 2010 at 3:51 PM
To Bret Ebey, We bought a Diamant mill from Lehmans hardware in Ohio. It is an unbelievably efficient mill. We had to save up for it but it was worth it, although prices have tripled since we bought ours. Your metal filings in the flour, according to our manual, are normal for grain run through the first time. The manual says that the first batch of flour of each new set of grinding plates should be thrown away. The fact that your flour is course is either a wrong setting of your grinding plates or a bad plates (a cheap grinder). In this, it really is true that you pay for what you get. Good luck getting it sorted out. Raven
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January 27th, 2010 at 5:50 PM
Anon 3:48
You need to read his book "Patriots". I think he pretty much expresses his views including lack of government via the story line.
Also anyone every notice the word "riots" in the word "Patriots". Will have to check into the root of "Patriot" sometime. Oh well.
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January 27th, 2010 at 6:52 PM
"3rdman said… January 27, 2010 12:50 PM
Anon 3:48 You need to read his book "Patriots". I think he pretty much expresses his views including lack of government via the story line"
I have read it 3 time!! maybe you should read it
before you coment on it. It shows that during the colapse that there was no Goverment coming to help you but in the end they end up fighting the Goverment Forces and UN troops. And in the end they do have a goverment that reflects what he thinks should be (very limited).
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January 27th, 2010 at 8:43 PM
3rdman:
Patriots might riot but comrades are a generally quite a riot.
;^)
Anyway, "Patriot" comes to us from the Greek word patrios, which meant, of one's fathers; which in turn is from "pater", or father.
The "patriotes" of ancient Greece were those who maintained an abiding love and respect for the land secured for them by their forefathers. They were essentially Survivalists who, by dint of the times, were most certainly competent [enough] fighter types of sound and practical mind.
A Patriot is a lover and motivated defender of the land of one's fathers.
In our case that would be the land of our Founding Fathers – which seems to me to be the -ahem- root reason for why so many postmodern 'enlightened' comrades can barely seem to stand it's very utterance, or anything connected with the word…Try saying "Our Father in Heaven" in a room full of comrades.
BTW "Comrade" comes from the Latin word "Camera" which meant "room" or more specifically "barracks".
A comrade was commonly understood to be one (often a fellow foot-soldier) who shared the same living space (habitat, barracks, …lebensraum).
It's not difficult to grok why various volk of totalitarian ambition have taken to the use of "kameraden" or "товарищ" (tovarisch) over say…Compatriot.
Besides being entirely too patriarchal (there's that root again) for current pussified tastes, a compatriot is a person (gasp! Maybe even a fellow member of man-kind or a hu-man) from one's own country; with the subtle implication being that the per-sons share a patriot's respect and willingness to fight for the preservation of the land of their forefathers.
Now everyone knows that we can't have that!
There is entirely too much lingering testosterone involved for all the kindly comrades of the new orderly world who simply work to usher in a glorious and enlightened one-world future with plenty of lebensraum for all Darwin's creatures big and small.
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January 27th, 2010 at 11:33 PM
Anon 1:52
Have read it and there was a time frame in the book where there was no government for several years after the fall,then as I recall correctly some local offical in or around Fort Knox declared himself President because he had the gold and 10,000 troops. I think this maybe were Creekmore was going. Your going to always have government, it just may be a more localized level for a time. What will slow any new government will be their ability to communicate with their supporters and enforcers. As far as UN troops, hell they have never ever established any type effective control or government anywhere in the world that they were charged with. Not to worried about them, now criminal gangs thats another whole topic. But then again they criminal gang would be the defacto government in the area of control. Sorry all over the place. Time to take meds haha
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January 27th, 2010 at 11:34 PM
Oh monkeyfan,
Thanks very much for the info.
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January 28th, 2010 at 1:58 AM
Getting back to the thread, what can I do that I can trade. Brewing, wine making, Meade, distilling, gunsmithing, plumbing, making clean water from things best left unmentioned. making zeolytes and 'rosins', reverse osmosis. Who was that said a country boy can survive.
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January 28th, 2010 at 4:13 AM
By the way regarding my earlier post referencing Y2K, I made some shirts in December 0f '99 which said it all to me -
Y-tu-que?
Translation from spanish to english – and you what?
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January 31st, 2010 at 9:07 PM
I think my wife and I will be covered for jobs post TEOTWAKI. She is a nurse and I am sure people will need medical care in the future. As for myself I am an Architectural Engineer and a Master Carpenter so I hope people will need things designed and built in the future.
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February 2nd, 2010 at 11:36 PM
Candle-making would be a great post TEOTWAKI trade. Call your local Catholic or Episcopal church and ask if you can buy their candle stubs. These two denominations use a lot of candles. You may find that they currently just discard their old stubs. At 25 to 50 cents a pound they'll be glad to save them for you. You can buy wicks at a local crafts store.
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