Are you out of the Loop about “ObamaCare”?

by M.D. Creekmore on July 9, 2013 · 57 comments

This is a guest post by Gail S and entry for our non-fiction writing contest.

Prizes for this round include…

This contest will end on September 9 2013

I live in California. California is apparently leading the nation on setting up the exchanges for ObamaCare 2014. In fact, not only will they be setting up the exchanges for individuals, it would appear that they are going to be ready to go on small business groups as well. A small business group is defined as less than 50 employees. The Federal government has announced that on the exchanges they are setting up, it will be at least 2015 before they will be active for small employee groups. How a small business is going to interact with the exchanges in order to obtain coverage for their employee is not yet clear.

Random ObamaCare facts. Some of this information could change between now and 1/1/2014, and this is based upon California at the present time and what I have gleaned about the status of the program from the Feds.

1. In California If your earnings are 133% or less of Federal Poverty Level, you will being enrolling in MediCaid/MediCal. If you use the Covered California website to apply, you will automatically be redirected to the MediCal website. This does not mean that your coverage is “free” as there is some unpublished chart called “Share of Costs” that applies when a person actually uses MediCal. ObamaCare mandates that the factor of 133% of Federal Poverty Level be used to establish the low income standard to be eligible for MediCaid/MediCal.

Many states use 100% of Federal Poverty Levels to establish income standards for MediCaid. The Feds are giving grants to the states setting up their own exchanges for three years to cover the additional 33%. Please note for those that are experiencing premature elation that by having a low income they are going to be able get medical care, beware. At least in California already, any dr.’s office that you call to make an appointment are asking what kind of insurance you have and are unequivocally stating that they are not taking MediCal patients or patients enrolled with MediCare unless the patient has an acceptable supplement. The state is setting up clinics in most areas to help with this push back from the doctors. Some doctors are contributing time to these clinics; we will see how long that lasts.

2. Federal poverty level information below is based upon overall family income and number of people in the family, see……. http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/13poverty.cfm

3. In the 26 States that are refusing to bring their own plan in, there will be no grant from the Federal Government to cover the extra 33% above Federal Poverty Level and it appears that in order to qualify for what is passed as government aided healthcare in those states you will have to be below 100% of Federal Poverty Level. (This could change). PLEASE DO NOT RANT AT ME AS REGARDS THE EXACT NUMBER OF STATES RESISTING OBAMACARE EXCHANGES! That is a fluid situation and is based upon political pressure and actuaries to determine where each state is better off. So when this is published it may be 24 states instead of 26………..whatever!

4.In California, from 2014 through 2017 there will be premium subsidies, also called advance tax credits for those earning between 133% of Federal Poverty Level to 400% of Federal Poverty Level. That means the full standard total premium would not be charged until a family of four had a total income of $89,400 in 2014. Each year that subsidy is reduced, with the same family of 4 paying a larger percentage of the premium until in 2018 (The year after Obama is no longer in office).

After which there will no longer be premium subsidies nor will there be grants to the states to cover the 33% over Federal Poverty Level for Medicaid/MediCal patients from the Federal government. It will then be up to the individual states to meet the requirements of ObamaCare out of state tax revenues if they want to be able to continue subsidies and meet that 133% of Federal Poverty level mandate. Even with subsidies, these exchange plans are not cheap. As you will see further along in the article.

5.In California if you are 65 or over and use the website to apply, you will automatically be redirected to the MediCare website.

6.In California there will be 4 major plans, a Platinum; a Gold; a Silver; and a Bronze. There will also be a “catastrophic” plan, some versions of plans with flexible spending accounts and a plan with a health savings account. Anyone can go view these plans by visiting “Covered California” at _http://www.coveredca.com/coverage_basics.html, roam around the website and you will see the coverages of the 4 available plans and an estimator of what premiums can be estimated to be.

7.Please pay attention to the lines near the top that show overall deductibles and out of pocket limits. The out of pocket limits must be reached in order to have the plans pay at 100%. Also check the notes in fine print at the bottom that state that family deductibles and out of pockets are 2x the individual out of pockets and deductibles listed at the top.

To check out some ideas of what your monthly premium might be, the covered California website has a calculator based upon the premium plan. That website is again

http://www.coveredca.com/coverage_basics.html

The cost estimator is based upon the silver plan. That is the plan that will be subsidized by the American taxpayers via Federal grants to the states.

Make sure that you add your out of pocket maximums and your deductibles correctly, depending upon the number of members there are in your households then add your annual premium together so that you will know what the total cost of the health plan will be. For instance, in year 2014:

A couple: Aged 55 and 52, earning $45,000, their subsidized premium would be $346 a month or $4152 per year, plus double deductibles and out of pockets on the Silver Plan of $12,800 = a total cost of $16,952.00 +/- some deductibles and unrecoverable rx’s and such.. That cost is, of course, the absolute maximum for two people, both of them needing hospitalization. I am praying that this couple doesn’t have a bad car accident!

A single woman aged 60, earning $55000, her subsidized premium in 2014 will be $782 per month or

$9384.00 per year. Add the appropriate deductibles of $6400 and your total out of pocket would max out of pocket of $15,784.

Now if the cost of ObamaCare hasn’t choked you up and made you opt to move out of the country yet, let’s go over the punishments that will apply over the years from 2014 through 2017 if you decided you don’t want health insurance.

1. CoveredCalifornia will be able access your last tax return in order to establish your projected income and number of dependents. That is the baseline they will use to establish your premium to start in 2014.

2.Those not wishing to get coverage the penalties are as follows:

  • 2014 – $95 up to a max of 3 per family or 1% of Income to a maximum of $285.
  • 2015 – $325 up to a max of 3 per family or 2% of Income to a maximum of $975
  • 2016 – $695 up to a max of 3 per family or 2.5% of Income to a maximum of $2085.

I have heard that there are several ways that this fines/taxes will be collected.

Option A. When you file your tax return starting in 2015, there will be a line on your tax return asking you to state your insurance carrier and the policy #. If that line is blank, the fine will be deducted directly from any tax refund you are expecting.

Option B. It will be directly withdrawn from your checking account.

As the penalties for not covering go up each year, the subsidies for the exchanges goes down each year.

One last note about subsidized premiums: If you underestimate your annualized salary and you receive a subsidy, there will be an accounting on your tax return to return any “over subsidy” you received for your premium. Adds insult to the injury doesn’t it?

ObamaCare at the Federal Level ……….

The Federal Government is not doing as well. The reason for that is roughly 26 states are not yet committing to setting up their own plan, and that means the Feds have to build a Federal Government exchange for them. The reasons for why 26 states are not setting up exchanges for themselves are myriad, but the biggest ones have to do with “subsidies “ and funding for the 33% over the 100% of Federal Poverty Level..

•The Feds propose to give states for a period of 3 years, grants to help people signing up for health care with the cost of the premiums. After which in 2018, they will be on their own to continue the plans. These states fear that in 2018, they won’t have the revenue to continue premium subsidies and that the population will not be able to afford the premiums on their own.

•The other reason is that the Feds have promised to “fund the 33% portion of the 133% of poverty level” MediCaid/MediCal eligible citizens for a period 3 years, and then drop it on the states to continue to fund on their own. Again, 26 state governors are looking hard at whether there will be revenues to continue ObamaCare in 2018 on their own and that is why they are not diving in to this.

NOTE: The 26 states not presently interested in setting up their own exchanges may change their minds. The Feds are likely to punish by charging a tax for setting up plans for them. Well, not them actually, they are going to add a tax onto the premiums that are charged through the insurance carriers to anyone seeking insurance on the exchanges that are set up by the Federal Government for your state.

Big Business Decisions.

Update: Obamacare delay: Business wins, the rest of us lose

Many large corporations have caught on to the fact that they do not have to offer health care and are penalty free if an employee works less than 30 hours per week. These employees are considered part time. Those employees still must get health insurance or will be penalized. In order to afford coverage, these employees will require two part time jobs in order to afford coverage or they will be subject to the penalties. Many employers have already stated that they have directed their Human Resource staff to reduce the number of full time positions and increase the number of part time positions.

Restaurants (Olive Garden, Red Lobster, etc.), theatre groups, hotels have all penciled in the numbers for 2014 and have figured out where they need to be in order manage costs. Anyone employed in a low skilled job, (cashiers, store stockers, manual laborers) is in danger of having their hours reduced to keep exposure rates low for larger companies. Just think, employees will be putting in 60 hours weeks at regular time in order to make ends meet………..and none of those extra 20 hours will be paid at overtime.

Large corporations generate their own premiums based upon the health claims experience of the whole group they insure. For the next three years, if the premium rates for their group is relatively stable, chances are good that they will contribute to the health insurance of their full time staff. Should their premiums increase significantly then another choice they will make is to do a calculation on what it would cost to just close up their plans, send their employees to the exchanges and pay the tax of $2000. per full time employee to the Federal government. It is with this choice that employees may find their hours cut to less than 30 hours per week in order for the business not to be taxed for this employee.

There are other “fine points” to consider for a larger business. What their competition is doing, risk of exposing themselves to unionizing attempts for not covering employees, the ethical/moral considerations of the principals of any organization all will play a role in the decision making process. Whatever a large corporation does, they will be confined as to what they can ask of the employees in the way of a contribution. That limit is 9.5% of the employee’s annual estimated pay. At that point, if the corporation exceeds that limit and one employee seeks and gets insurance on an exchange, the tax for that employee will be $3,000 to the Feds. (This feature has more detail, but I am generalizing this 9.% % for purposes of giving you a point of reference for evaluation.)

Miscellaneous.

As it is still murky and the scheme is still afoot from that soulless cretin Kathleen Sebillious I am not going into the so called “death panels” that are going to be set up. At present, the documents regarding this are stating that she can install whomever she wishes on these panels. They do not have to be doctors or attorneys. That alone is alarming! Think a death panel with only left wing individuals who want to decide which people with specific diseases are no “longer viable”…………..

There is no great conclusion I can draw to this. In California, over the next 4 years, there may be some individuals in lower paid jobs or are working at minimum wage that will better off because they will be in the MediCal program and will not be subject to premiums. For anyone else, drawing down a modest income, chances are that their premiums will be higher, their deductibles will be higher, their out of pockets will be higher and their risk of filing bankruptcy due to medical costs is about the same as it was before the whole ObamaCare debacle.

Insurance companies are not specifically complaining about ObamaCare as there is no mandate against raising rates to cover claims. The only provision of note for an insurance company is that no more than 15% of their total income can be used for administrative costs. Before ObamaCare, most insurers in California targeted somewhere under 10% of total income for administrative costs………..They just got a raise.

When ObamaCare was first presented, there were limited coverages for illegal aliens, yes illegal aliens, I am not going to be PC correct based upon whatever agenda the AP is following. There were some limited exceptions as to emergency rooms. Now, some clown in the Senate or House has proposed to open ObamaCare up to illegal aliens. How they plan on collecting taxes for this group is murky as is much of this plan.

One more comment. Health Insurance and health care comprises approximately 20% of the total US economy. As run by the insurance carriers and with whatever faults it has had, it was profitable and in some cases some carriers were are trading on the stock exchanges. The Federal government used its faults to take over a profitable and significant portion of the economy with the ObamaCare move. With Social Security, Medicare and Medicare RX drowning in red ink, it has been eyed by some in Washington as a “way to help keep other social programs afloat…………..”. Think what you will of the success of that dim unexplored reasoning…………we are here………………prepare!

Note: This article is published for informational purposes an should not be taken as legal advice.

57 comments

Rider of Rohan July 9, 2013 at 8:39 am

Good grief, I knew this was going to be a train wreck, but that doesn’t begin to describe it. This is in every way horrible.

Mystery Guest July 9, 2013 at 9:20 am

I have been confused, confounded and down right out of the loop on this and this explanation hasn’t helped.
Sounds to me like he is making the poor, poorer.
Small business’ to go out of business.
And down right stealing your money via tax returns.
Morons all of them.

axelsteve July 9, 2013 at 9:49 am

O commie care is going to cost me more for less then what I have now. Mc healthcare sucks.

Mama J July 9, 2013 at 10:06 am

Good article and information Gail.
Right now we average 20% of our income with our premiums, deductibles ,co pays and out of pocket. Some years as high as 40% when we had a big hospital year. At our income with the exchange rates I have seen WE. ARE. SCREWED.
We are looking at real estate out of the country.

worrisome July 9, 2013 at 10:42 pm

Mama J, please let me know if you find a place to go that makes sense :)

Mari July 9, 2013 at 11:22 am

This is the most horrific mess that I’ve ever seen the gov’t pull off. This is an absolute economic disaster, one for which the country could go under. (Duh, anybody else think that might be the planned result?) The Supreme Court actually did us all a huge favor by declaring it a tax. Congress can get rid of a tax, and a good start might be to de-fund Obamacare.

Doctors in NJ have been pulling out of Medicare and especially Medicaid. Many are closing their practices or at least thinking about it. The huge increases in costs just having to do with more and more regulations and having to hire more personnel are killing their practices. Depending on location, some are opening offices inside hospitals, but that drives up cost. Many hospitals are getting rid of their doctors, and most seem to be getting rid of their highest paid personnel in various disciplines and replacing them with less experienced and lower paid personnel.

The POS in the WH made plenty of back room deals, a lot of which had to do with campaign contributions and support. No tort reform to thank the most powerful lobby of all — the freaking lawyers. Pharma was assured of no drug importation and no price negotiations for gov’t programs. Big unions and other special-interest groups got waivers. What does it take for people to know when they’ve been frewed, with a capital S?

This whole flipping mess will certainly destroy life as we knew it.

worrisome July 9, 2013 at 10:44 pm

Look for long waits for any elective services, look for a doubling or tripling of the people in the ER, look for reductions in what TPTB allow for services going forward. Nothing in this adds one single physician, nor is there anything in the bill that allows for incentives for physicians nor for those wishing to educate to be physicians.

Ghost July 9, 2013 at 11:31 am

The thieves here in Minne-snowta have also jumped on the Obamacare train full force. This State which used to run surpluses is already slowly going bankrupt even before this mess.

I know that many will disagree with me, but coming from a family of R.N.’s I see no purpose for Obama care, as anyone who was ill/injured could not be refused service at any E.R. in the country.

Really good article!

Hunker-Down July 9, 2013 at 11:43 am

A big poke in the eye to all the buffoons who followed Pelosi who said ,we have to pass it to see what’s in it.

Wasn’t that a stupid statement?
Wasn’t that a stupid action on the part of those who did what she said?

When will ‘they’ stop writing it? It seems to grow continuously, just like the tax code. What a neat trick; it’s already law but not yet in writing.

Now we have a new standard of conduct in congress. They can pass anything without bothering to read it because it wont apply to them or to their families.
Almost every month we hear about a twelve hundred page bill that must be voted on 48 hours after it is published.

And nobody cares enough to get past their indifference.

worrisome July 9, 2013 at 10:50 pm

When will they stop writing it? There was 600 new pages created between last Wednesday and today. Also changed since the third of July……….a. they were going to charge smokers up to 3x the standard premium rate in the exchanges and have now found out that they don’t have the technical ability in the software to do that for at least 2 years. b. they were going to have a methodology by Oct 1, 2013 to test what people signing up on the exchanges claimed as their income, now they have admitted they won’t have the technology to do that for at least three years…………….so they are going to “trust” those signing up that they are accurate when they ask them their income. By deduction that would mean, “hey man”” just call go online, tell em that you only earn like 112% of Federal poverty rate and they will move you over to that free plan, ya know? The one that is called Medicaid??” “By the way, have you seen my new ride man? Isn’t it sweet? Now that I don’t have to pay for ObamaCare I have mo money for car payments….” It is a fact folks, not lying to you here!

Hunker-Down July 10, 2013 at 10:19 am

worrisome,

Who voted on those additional 600 pages? Did your Representative or senator? Who vetted those in the back room that wrote it?

This is taxation in its worst form without representation.
It is also just another example of the transparent administration touted by TDL. This kind of ‘transparency’ is S.O.P. for TDL and his minions.

When will we get past our indifference and get back our freedom?

I am not mentally equipped to understand the tax code or the health care law. I just fell off the turnip truck but am smart enough to know both are constructed to the benefit of the soul of corporations at the expense if the individual.

Its time we grew the gonads to install some smash mouth competitive fairness and morality into our society. (Rant not over yet.)

worrisome July 10, 2013 at 11:22 am

Nobody voted for those 600 pages hunker down………it was done inside the irs and hhs all under the management of the treasury department………..you are right………….and don’t quit ranting. please :)

JP in MT July 9, 2013 at 11:55 am

First, Gail thanks for the extensive article. Good stuff.

I personally feel that part of the problem is the way the general population looks at medical insurance. You wouldn’t go into your local Jiffy Lube for an oil change, give them your insurance card, and expect to pay nothing. Yet people expect that with health insurance.

If you expect your car insurance to only have a $250 deductable (or less) versus $1000, you premiums are going to be more. Yet somehow with medical insurance, you are supposed to get more things covered and pay out less money.

Insurance is for catastrophic events. It’s not for your “check up”.

We have gone so far into this system that the average person does not know what a procedure costs. Would you have your home renovated without knowing what the cost is? We can’t shop around, because we don’t know what the costs are.

I got a bill from the dentist. The first was before it was submitted to the insurance company. The second was after it went in and it was less (it was also an uncovered procedure). I told the dentist, “if you had just charged me the lower rate, I would have paid the bill right away. You would have gotten paid faster and I wouldn’t have to pay for insurance coverage, just to get a better cost.” I find it irritating.

Thunder ba July 9, 2013 at 2:55 pm

What’s worse is the doctors don’t know what it costs. They just do the treatment and they have staff members that do the charging.

Mama J July 9, 2013 at 3:19 pm

Yes, it is all irritating.
I would like to have only major medical insurance. The only way we can get insurance is through the employer because of pre existing conditions.
If I can get away with it I say we do not have insurance, pay the bill and then are reimbursed by our carrier. I have saved thousands this way on co pays.
It really pisses everyone off in the hospital or doctors office when you ask the costs of procedures. I do. Every time. I get dirty looks and eye rolling but I don’t care about their comfort or inconvienences. They work for me. I am hiring them. I pick the doctor with the best qualifications, just like a home contractor.
One doctor can do a simple procedure at hospital A for one price. At hospital B for much less. If I like the doctor, then I hire them to work in hospital B.

I once hired an attorney that cost much more than the others I interviewed.
He asked why I picked him.. I said “Because you are the biggest ahole I have ever met, and that is what I need right now” He thanked me for the compliment and I wrote him a check.

Doris Jones July 9, 2013 at 9:06 pm

Brilliant!

N/A July 9, 2013 at 3:44 pm

I noticed, before it was all computerized, that my dentist had a list of insured & uninsured patient appointments for the day hanging in the treatment area. You can bet there was a difference in the treatments offered and costs of those treatments. I get my teeth cleaned, needed fillings and say “no thank-you” to their other grand schemes for taking care of my teeth. Root canal or pull it? Pull it!! So now I need a bridge? NO THANK YOU!!! Same way at the medical clinic. I go in for a blood pressure checkup and they try to put me on expensive drugs that will keep me coming in every month or so for tests to make sure they aren’t destroying my liver too fast. NO THANK YOU. Many natural products do the job just as well with less risk. It’s all a racket.

george July 9, 2013 at 9:45 pm

A few months ago when I was fighting a MRSA infection my doctor was out and saw the FNP and he looked up on his I-phone what the antibiotics cost and prescribed the one that would do the best job for the lowest price. Only a $60 copay compared to $400 for THE accepted protocol , said if this one did not work we could go for the other one. Guess what he gets my business from now on!!!

Lantana July 10, 2013 at 7:38 am

FNP?

seeuncourt July 10, 2013 at 9:14 am

F Nurse Practitioner

Sw't Tater July 9, 2013 at 1:41 pm

Good article, Gail. I know it took a lot of research. Finding out about a law imposed without consent, by people whom are unelected…seems like our country has been thru that before…
In Tennessee there was an insurance plan similar to O care for several years.Only the low income and children qualified for it. It was abused, with some persons going to the ER for a boil or hangnail. The program almost bankrupted the state, we got someone elected that made the necessary cuts. Yes, there was an outcry, yes , some people found they had no coverage…and they really needed it. I am sure some died, tho I didn’t know anyone personally. But folks, we are dying from the time we enter this world. Death is a fact of life!
There are ways around this health care law. I will be getting into one of those ways. I have already found one for less than 200$ per month-initial, + OTC, and there are other conditions to be met. All, and +some I have been doing for my healthcare already. To qualify for any free/ low cost services… I haven’t taken time to check today’s guidelines,..we usually just miss the parameters.

Sw't Tater July 9, 2013 at 1:47 pm

One detail, I lost my 20 hr week job 2 years ago, about the same time this law was signed. It has already cost several people jobs that I know . THAt is not in the future, it is NOW. Some have been fortunate enough to get..some relief, a part time some where else, or be able to reduce expenses, to survive. Many persons who are unemployed do not recieve unemployment benefits…so don’t fall for the manipulated numbers.

worrisome July 9, 2013 at 10:55 pm

Tater, employers are dumping staff, rethinking essential functions, slowing down their growth markers in order to cut staff and already are beginning to reduce more employees hours to part time as the provisions in ObamaCare are such that they are afraid of the punitive possibilities that somewhere soon, they will establish a “look back” period on who an employer has working on part time status. The punitive part being an “assumption” on the part of the ObamaCare folks that an employer cut hours just to avoid ObamaCare participation……
I believe that Axle Steve is just one such Wolf Pack Family member, like you that is living that nightmare.

Winomega July 9, 2013 at 1:41 pm

I halfway read the article, some of it felt like old versions were still in the file.

I get the sense that insurance shouldn’t be tied to job, especially with the part-time loophole. (Seems to me that certain companies have been firing their full-timers for more part-timers to avoid insurance costs.)

Having to make sacrifices for a job to keep the insurance is an old issue. If everyone bought health insurance like car insurance, it might work. (Pay out-of-pocket for everything except emergency room coverage, or get something fancier.)

Sw't Tater July 9, 2013 at 1:49 pm

When people are making just enough money to survive…one of the first things they loose is health care coverage. It usually comes after food, rent/ morgage, and lights.

Lantana July 9, 2013 at 5:05 pm

Winomega, insurance was not provided by employers until WWII–when the gov’t instituted wage controls, companies started offering benefits to attract employees from those not serving in the armed forces.

Winomega July 9, 2013 at 5:44 pm

Lantana, that’s another aspect of it. What if employers stopped giving perks?

Back when I was still trying to find a job, I remember reading an article to ask about perks when comparing wages.

Rider of Rohan July 9, 2013 at 9:46 pm

Yep, more unintended consequences of government meddling in all aspects of our lives. Just like employers cutting hours so they won’t have to pay insurance costs. They will just let the government pick up the tab by subsidizing those on the exchanges. Or just plain fraud when people aren’t even required to prove they qualify for the exchanges. All of this crap is just useless, and wastes resources. Out of $1 trillion dollars spent, not one new doctor or nurse was created through our education system. Throw millions on a system that was already overloaded, what could possibly go wrong?

Penny Pincher July 9, 2013 at 2:40 pm

We can urge our reps to nullify Obamacare in our states.
We can also refuse personally to register for Obamacare. There is a website where you’re supposed to enroll starting October 1. If large numbers of people don’t enroll, that might mess them up.

I noticed on this website that there is supposed to be a provision for people in religious sects that object to health insurance to opt out of paying the fine. I don’t see anywhere to apply for this opting out. I also notice the Catholics are not exempt, even though they might object to the abortion services. I’m personally pro choice, but I think the operative word there is CHOICE, not abortions for all and sundry. If one chooses not to support abortion, they should be able to opt out, and I don’t think the government has any place administering health care in the first place.

We can also urge our reps and Speaker Boehner to not let any immigration bill onto the floor of the House until AFTER they have started enforcing the existing immigration laws and our borders. If this one immigration bill gets into Reconciliation it will come out watered down and weak, the illegals will get their free health care and everything else, and they’ll all get Legalized and then it’ll be all progressive everything from here on out. We will turn into Argentina.

wilson July 9, 2013 at 10:16 pm

I saw a list of religions that were exempt about a year ago and if I recall correctly it was mostly Amish and Mennonite. That assumes that it was real and correct (it was posted somewhere).

worrisome July 9, 2013 at 11:01 pm

Penny, they are playing with the grace of the law of large numbers. It will take 2.8 million young people, between the ages of 18-30 to sign up on the exchanges year one in order for the whole scheme to succeed. If that 2.8 million young folk don’t sign up and just pay their $95 fine, this will be a mess in year one.

The religious “sects” are muslims………..I haven’t read that for myself, but I did read that CAIRE was insistent on some language in the bill that allowed for devout religious sects to opt out… As a matter of fact, I need to go research that one more closely.

It is Babs Boxer for one in Cali that is pushing to allow illegals to sign up for ObamaCare. Pushing very hard as a matter of fact.

babycatcher July 10, 2013 at 1:50 am

I’m wondering how many people the feds can afford to jail if most people refused to buy insurance?

seeuncourt July 10, 2013 at 9:16 am

See FEMA camp

N/A July 9, 2013 at 4:03 pm

Why is this whole thing called “health care” anyway? What it is, is a “health insurance” scheme. The terms used have annoyed me from the beginning.

And the “Affordable Health Care Act?” Who are they trying to kid? If you want to make it affordable first ban malpractice lawsuits and the malpractice insurance premiums. Then tell Big Pharma that their prices will be the same in the U.S. as they charge the rest of the world. Prevent the FDA from banning perfectly good treatments, natural or not, just because they will decrease profits for some sectors. Make insurance premiums low enough that people can afford them without subsidies for catastrophic needs, but make the deductibles high enough to make people think twice before running to the doctor for every little scrape, bruise, bump or sneeze & cough.

Broken bones, heart attack, stroke, accident trauma, uncontrolled bleeding…get treatment immediately. A virus??? Stay home, rest, fluids, OTC meds for pain and fever. If you’re not recovered in a week or you’re getting worse by the day it might be bacterial and you’ll need a clinic visit & antibiotics. In other words…..COMMON SENSE…something sorely lacking in modern society.

Stealth Spaniel July 9, 2013 at 4:53 pm

Here is some more info……
A=The people being hired have NOTHING to do with healthcare. They are hiring any and every warm body who can fill a chair. They call them “technicians”; there are level 1,2,or 3 and then the requisite levels of management. These will be union dues paying people who will be a strict pipeline to fill the Democrat Coffers. The people that I know who are applying and getting hired are all there “for the benefits”.
B=I wonder whom the boys and girls under the dome in Sacramento think will be paying the lions share of this fiasco? Even the entertainment weevils are establishing other state residency status-usually Nevada, Texas, or some other low tax state. Every middle class person that I know is desperately trying to escape California. We are quickly developing a 90% off grid economy of working under the table with unreported income.
C=A lot of doctors are going into “boutique” medicine. That means you pay the doctor a set amount every month or every year-and get unlimited access to the doctor’s time. It also takes your medical records OUT of GE and the scan and view online. With boutique medicine your doctor is not required to digitize your records. I love this idea. It reduces the chances of being blackmailed by your enemies, having your records “accidentally disclosed” to any person, and your doctor is the only person who sees your personal info.
D=This disaster known as Obamacare proves that nobody can regulate human behavior. Being Americans, by our very nature, we are revolutionaries. It is in our DNA and we will simply find a way around this obscenity.
As for me, I cannot wait to leave my native state. How sad.

Penny Pincher July 9, 2013 at 5:04 pm

Health insurance used to be like you would put in some dues in a known group, maybe like a civic organization, and if someone got really sick and went in the hospital they’d get some help from it – probably up to a limit. That would make more sense – not to have the insurance company get all in the doctor’s business or in your business. And, I think the insurance companies are rip-offs anyway. It’s not so much that I think that mitigating risk with a hedge (which is the definition of insurance) is bad, it’s just that the industry is corrupt. And now we have the most ahem “transparent” administration ever (as in transparent liars) trying to take that whole thing over. There should NOT be a fine for not participating.

Keith July 9, 2013 at 5:51 pm

One additional thought – There is no means test for the HIE subsidy. So, consider this scenario: Married couple, both 62, with a $300,000 mortgage free home, 2 cars [free and clear], a lakeside cabin with 3 acres of land and $200,000 in cash in the bank. They both decided to retire early and collect their early Social Security at, say $2,000 per month combined and supplement their outflow from savings. They have no MAGI, except the interest on the $200,000 in savings. Their assets keep them from qualifying for Medicaid, so they move to the Exchange for their health insurance. They will get the full federal subsidy because they are below the poverty limit.

I wonder who pays for this?

worrisome July 9, 2013 at 11:03 pm

If you pay taxes, you do, I do and all the rest of the 47% of the nation that still have full time jobs.

J. Roy Pedersen July 9, 2013 at 6:01 pm

@Penny Pincher
Charging Americans for non-participation is genius. Americans will get charged for not receiving a service. That is brilliant, in a sort of corrupt, cynical, Malthusian way.

“Pay us to get our shitty, unwanted product, or pay us not to get our shitty, unwanted product”

There is another term for that…Theft.

Mama J July 9, 2013 at 6:56 pm

Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off and crying because it is so true.

Doris Jones July 9, 2013 at 9:04 pm

J. Roy Pedersen,
You are TRULY telling it like it is! And most Americans are dumb enough or uninformed enough to accept this treatment.

Winomega July 9, 2013 at 6:18 pm

Okay.

I’ve seen cases of children dying from seemingly survivable infections because parents couldn’t afford to get it checked out.

I’ve seen arguments for being able to shell out cash to get better care.

I can’t find the article about some worker group suddenly getting less employer-coverage because of a secretary costing the insurer money.

I can’t abide huge hospital bills for those who can pay simply to cover those who can’t. Only way to avoid paying huge fees is to be unidentifiable or poor?

axelsteve July 9, 2013 at 7:59 pm

I have seen cases of illegal aliens at the emergency room. Clogging up the waiting room , they need a translater and they get free care since they are illegal. Get an American family with no insurance and get treated however they sick a collection agency on you. I say learn spanish and claim that you are the Ortega family.

Doris Jones July 9, 2013 at 8:23 pm

Did you know that originally “insurance” began as a non-profit to help people? Look where it has come.

Have any of you ever played Monopoly? Bet most of us have. In the end, the person with the most property wins. Once you “have” the “have nots” do not have a chance. We now permit Banks and Insurance Companies to do business that once was a FELONY and could put you in jail. Example: Once upon a time, excessive interest–once just a maximum of 16% or less, if you went over that amount you were considered like the Mafia and it was a Federal Felony. Now, banks and lending institutions can charge you
36% and even MORE with “fees” since our wonderful “representatives” sold out to the “lobbyists” in the banking industry and the banking industry who work hand in glove. (Insurance industry FUNDS the banks!) It is the same with insurance.

Profit above all else, and call it “capitalism” and Hold it up like some sort of “Holy Grail”. Just like in Monopoly, the person with all the real estate/ie. power wins–just the same in our “real life”. We need to get wise and to realize that our “capitalism” is nothing but “fascism” with PR. Nothing in our country is really about “free trade” or “opportunity” any more. We have been sold out and still stand by and do little or nothing but “TALK”. Talking will not get it now. It has gone too far for that.

Texanadian July 9, 2013 at 11:01 pm

” We need to get wise and to realize that our “capitalism” is nothing but “fascism” with PR. ”

This was not always the case. Unfortunately the more government gets involved in controlling and interfering with business the more fascist we become. Free enterprize capitalism rerquires people to be able to buy products at a price they can afford or the product won’t sell. With government interference and control of competition through outragous hoops to jump through they create monopolies of essential services (big pharma) that are protected by the goverment and allowed to take advantages of those people that need those services.

TW and I love Texas but the way the rest of the country is heading and how the feds are messing with everything we are seriously considering heading back to the great white north. I hate winter. :(

Doris Jones July 10, 2013 at 11:30 am

Texanadian,
I agree with you for sure and your comment “This was not always the case.” I also said about our capitalism becoming “fascism” I added on the words “any more.” TRUE capitalism is great–what is “called” capitalism nowadays is really fascism and is a terrible way for our country to end up. It seems that the ONLY way to break out of fascism historically has been with an all out revolt and I want a civil/voting method done and without violence. I am concerned I am wishing for the moon.

george July 9, 2013 at 9:52 pm

Obamacare = NWO way of thinning the herd without them knowing it. Most of the sheeple that voted for Barry , are, in his opinion, just worthless peons that are in the way for him and need to be “cleansed” from this earth for their wasteful ways.

Damn $700 is a house payment or payment on a Mercedes and TDL wants a single person to pay that for health ins!!!!

Texanadian July 9, 2013 at 10:54 pm

If the government passed a law that said everyone had to buy a big mac at least once a week or be fined for not doing so everyone in the country would scream bloody murder. Obama care is exactly the same thing. You are being forced to by a product you may not want or need or the the force of the government will punish or imprison you. How’s that hope and change working out?

SW July 9, 2013 at 11:31 pm

Sadly… one more reason not to trust doctors.

The Post-Standard reports that in October 2009, Colleen S. Burns was taken to the emergency room at St. Joseph’s Hospital Center, suffering from a drug overdose. Although a nurse told doctors that Burns was recovering from her overdose, those same doctors pronounced her dead.

A call was placed to her family informing them that Burns had passed away, and the family subsequently agreed to have her removed from life support and gave the hospital clearance to harvest her organs.

Nonetheless, the nurse then followed instructions to give Burns a powerful sedative, a seemingly unnecessary move if the patient were actually dead.

Thankfully, Burns awoke moments before doctors were going to cut her open to remove the organs from her presumed-dead body.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/patient-awoke-doctors-errantly-preparing-remove-her-organs-141547610.html

Trashman July 10, 2013 at 7:54 am

My DW and I are seeing our GP today for the last time. We hope to get a referral to another Doctor… but don’t know if anyone in his old group are taking new patients.

Doc C. if pulling the pin on his practice and going into truly personal care practice off the public grid…. er else just taking his $$ now and running like heck. Either way….. he makes no bones as to why. This coming ‘health care’ system will put a stake in the heart of our current system…. no matter how un inclusive it may be.

I try to remember we are endowed by our creator with the right to “Life, Liberty, and the search for happiness” Yeah… search.. Didn’t say bupcus about insurance. I’d like to say God help us all…… accept God didn’t vote these fools into office did he.

Question….. Do dead sheep float belly up… or is that just dead fish?

KDK July 10, 2013 at 8:38 am

This is what you get when a person who has never hit a lick in their life tries to manage other people.

I know there is a fine for not having insurance but what is it? I am going to close all my bank accounts so they cant tap into my money. I havent worked in over a yr(by choice) so I show no income. Is jail a reality in all this? Can one hide from the govt?

worrisome July 10, 2013 at 10:06 am

Read above, the fines for the first three years are listed. If you have no income, you probably have nothing to worry about anyway. They would just put you into Medicaid if you had some incident that required a hospitalization for instance.

one day at a time July 10, 2013 at 10:01 am

I haven’t had health insurance for a long time now. when my husband or I get injured, or really sick, we go to the doctor, pay the bill, buy the medicine needed and that’s that. Paying monthly premiums cost more than our medical needs amount too. We eat right, stay active and practice safety in work and play. We are responsible adults and cover our medical costs ourselves. I was raised, you don’t go to the doctor unless you absolutely had no other option and I will continue to handle my own medical decisions myself. The government does not pay my bills so they are not going to tell me how to spend my money. (what little we have!)

one day at a time July 10, 2013 at 10:02 am

MD….i can make comments again!! thank you

Joe E. July 10, 2013 at 11:12 am

A few of my wife’s friends—think O is the best. I can’t wit to tell them how much the fines will be for not having medical coverage :-)

Donna in MN July 10, 2013 at 8:30 pm

What was the name of that Book again? “How to make a living without a salary”?
I wonder what authorities will do to those who don’t make/earn any money and don’t want this expensive Obamacare insurance? Will they steal their savings they are living off of?

Medicaid in my state will make you pay it back if it is used. I know because when I came into some settlement money many years later they took it. My daughter was on it and had her tonsils out in ’84.. Then after it was paid back, they came after me again 9 years later to pay it back and withheld my tax returns until I proved they were wrong. This is why I have nothing to do with government medicaid or food stamps. I would rather chew wintergreen for sore gums and eat wild foods.

TN Mommy July 13, 2013 at 8:05 am

I already pay 3640 dollars a year for my “health insurance” and I’m really afraid to find out what it’s going to cost come 2014… Because the insurance companies are going to raise everyone’s premium. But then the gooberment will continue to tell everyone that there is no inflationl

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