Conflicted Tuesday


We have worked out an exclusive deal with the publishers of the survival card game “Conflicted” where we will be posting one question per week from the deck for open discussion here on

You can buy your own Conflicted Deck here and play it with your friends and family…

Okay here we go…

The airplane you stole is too heavy and it’s about to crash. You and your six buddies have five minutes to decide who to dump out, fuel and supplies have been dumped already. Two of you need to go in order to make the airplane stable but there are no parachutes. The two who need to leave the plane will suffer an excruciating fall to their deaths. How would you handle this situation and why?

Looking forward to the discussion in the comments below…

About M.D. Creekmore

M.D. Creekmore is the owner and editor of He is the author of four prepper related books and is regarded as one of the nations top survival and emergency preparedness experts. Read more about him here.


  1. After you have dumped fuel and supplies? Why, how did you take off? If you go up you go on, But , In this scenario no one jumps your already out of fuel (or darn close) put those 7 pair of eyes to work and find somewhere to land. If you do crash you’ll need all hands to evacuate the plane, Set up shelter, or evacuate the area. My vote is no one jumps.

    • Hunker-Down says:

      I agree.

    • Thomas The Tinker says:

      Say A–hmennn

    • Yea, this one doesn’t even make sense to me. If it were too heavy it wouldn’t lift off, let alone get high enough for someone to “suffer an excruciating fall to their deaths”. And if that were the case then why not just shut off the engine and glide to a slow, as-controlled-as-possible crash landing and see who makes it…. Planes don’t simply fall straight down because two extra people are on board.

    • Agreed… all for one, one for all

    • I think that you are missing the point of the question.

      It doesn’t matter why the plane is going down, what do you do if it is going down?

      • I am not jumping and I am not asking someone else to jump. So I guess I would get down on my knees and pray.

        • Yep. Pray and hope we find somewhere to land. The more interesting question would have been if there were 6 on the plane and only 4 parachutes. Since it is freezing you must take supplies which keeps you from jumping tandem. The 2 without parachutes are likely to die. How do you decide who gets parachutes and who doesn’t?

      • Marc,
        Assuming I stole the plane, then I’m assuming that I’m the pilot, so I’ll be staying with the plane; leaving the others to work out the weight and exit details.

    • Ronald,

      This is going to be a boring Tuesday because you’ve already given the intelligent answer.

      If there were questions about fuel, cargo and the like, they should have been dumped in sufficient time to allow one to arrive at one’s destination.

      • My dh, who was a small craft pilot, says you wouldn’t get more than a quarter mile before you realized you were loaded heavy or something else was wrong. You would dump cargo and seats before anything else. Then you would dump fuel. And all this is if you got off the runway. Most likely, you would crash on the runway.

      • Thank You Bam Bam I won’t post before 11:00 A.M. promise!

    • j.r. guerra in s. tx. says:

      I agree also – the extra miles gained will not be worth the loss of the extra man power. Better to have a controlled crash landing then dump those extra folks – you’re going to need them. Better the parachutes are used at last minute so that all can (hopefully) gather back together at end. Pilot takes one for the team.

    • First, I wouldn’t steal a plane, but suppose I was with a party that did and we managed to get off the ground. Suddenly, our pilot blurts out that we’re over loaded and two people have to jump out to save the rest of us, so we’d better decide in a hurry.
      OK- the first to go out is the pilot for getting us in this mess. Next to go would be the fat lady, ‘cuz the ride will be over when the Fat Lady sings.

    • Old Alaskan says:

      I agree if you are too heavy to maintain altitude you were too heavy to takeoff and are now driving down the highway. Don’t jump nose the plane down gain airspeed and land the sucker.
      I flew the bush for a year or two.

  2. WYO Ryder says:

    Would be ideal if two of my BUDDIES will volunteer to jump out but if not then we all draw straws to see who goes. That is fair.

  3. The Missus and I like Ronald’s answer.

  4. Nebraska Woman says:

    This is a ridiculous scenario on many levels.
    First, you stole the plane? You deserve what you get.
    Next, as Ronald pointed out, how did the plane take off?
    Then, how adept is the pilot? How many can fly the plane? At least one should be exempt from the jump.
    Finally, it seems to me that the weakest two would be pushed off.
    The law of the jungle would be first.

    • Lets expand our minds here. The question is on a card…they probably can only fit so much info on it.

      What if the plane lost part of its power in mid air?

      What the card is asking is this – If you and your buddies had to sacrifice 2 in your group, otherwise everyone would die, how would you go about deciding it….

      I say, let the ones with life threatening injuries/ illnesses go first.

      • maybe throw out some of the seats

      • This is a revision of the life boat scenario posed by liberals to high school kids back in the 70’s in effort to swing them onto the abortion-anti God brigade. Then the question was, “A Priest, a Rabbi, a Muslim, an Evangelical preacher and you are caught in a plane crash… there is room for four on the life boat- who do you allow on board?”
        A moral question and the answer says a lot about the person.

  5. Hobbitt of the Shire says:

    If there is still 5 minutes flying time to make the decision then they have enough time to find a spot to set the plane down. If 500 lbs is all that is needed to reach destination then I am sure that seats, cushions, or other things could be dumped to make up the weight. I would vote all stay together and ride it out.

  6. Donna in MN says:

    If it is too heavy to fly, it must have built ice up on the wings and we are flying high altitude through moisture ladened clouds.

    There is no other reason why the plane would be too heavy to fly since it would not have been able to get off the ground. Since someone decided to dump the fuel, we are running on empty, so how can we fly when we have only 5 minutes of fuel left? Land the darn plane!

    • PGCPrepper says:

      Maybe we dumped some fuel but left enough to land? I don’t know if that’s possible though. Scenario stated we dumped fuel, not all of it.

      • Donna in MN says:

        Quote the senario: “fuel and supplies have been dumped already”

        It does not say how much, that is for us to decide in our answers.

  7. 1. Don’t steal.
    2. If you do steal, steal a larger airplane.
    3. The plane is flying, you got it off the ground so weight is not the issue. Sounds as if it is a control problem. Put the plane down and start walking to the next airfield to steal a better plane.
    4. Since you have already dumped fuel, where pray tell do you expect to fly?

  8. Ive changed my answer from push the two who have the least to offer,least to lose,least amount of people that depend on him,off,to ronalds answer. take your chances landing somewhere and survive. much better answer.

    • PGCPrepper says:

      Ive changed my answer

      Did you change your answer within the five minutes? 🙂

      • no,as i was crawling through the burning wreckage looking for my other foot. You have a lot of time to reflect when your in burning wreckage. 😉

        • “looking for my other foot.”

          bc, dude, that is SO self-centered. You should have been looking for MY other foot. I know it’s around somewhere.

          If you were other-centered I would be so much better off.

          • Jersey Drifter says:

            I’m laughing so hard I’m crying. bctruck , PGCPrepper,and Penrod are killing me…….in which case I might as well be one to jump.

            • PGCPrepper says:

              Reminds me of the MASH episode where they were trying to disarm a bomb and Hawkeye was reading the instructions. So, he read the instructions as something like cut the red wire or whatever. The EOD soldier cuts the red wire and then Hawkeye, reading the next instruction, says “but first.” LOL

              I guess that’s more funny to me than you as I served so long in the Army. It was a trip at times. We had to just plain laugh oft-times.

  9. If you have 5 minutes to decide who to dump out, doesn’t that give you 4:59 minutes to land?

  10. Thomas The Tinker says:

    “The airplane you stole…” (Nothing like starting the conversation on a low moral plane… play on words.. humor) “.. is to heavy..” Ok…. and how in the heck did you… & these other 5 get it off the ground .. before .. you dumped everything out.. Oh..K I learned to fly in Piper 140s in Hawaii. You tend to pay overly close attention to things when you spend 80+ % of your hours over water. Say I had a 180 or equal and it is grossly overloaded.. way off centered.. and wet (fueled) and I defeated basic physics and cleared the utility wires and got to such an altitude that I.. we had the time and airspeed to calmly reflect on our future in small aircraft. It is only me myself and nobody else responding to this ‘card’. Oh… I am a God among private pilots.. this brick is up. I’m going to focus on not stalling this pig. If I have that kind of speed.. maintain level flight. More than enough to keep you busy and holding a lottery on who jumps out is a nice Idea assuming the other 5 yahoos can fly the brick… well at least one of the 4 winners. If you are the only ‘pilot’.. pay attention to the situation at hand and get away from the remaining 3 lottery winners you land with asap.

    “about to crash…” The only small aircraft wreckage I have picked through reminded me of a rambling heap of used, dull aluminum razor blades. Northern Mojave, Owens Valley, East of Pear blossom Calif… in my youth.. 20s.

    Set up for a short field landing in the best possible location before you dump your gear or your ‘buddies’… grandkids.. daughter in law. Where…. if you have enough hours in your log to know how to get this mistake into the air.. and the situation is so dire that you try it.. it would be a waste of time to try and argue the best place for.. you.. to try and ‘land’ it. This kind of lighten the lifeboat thang is a nice moral debate but for me.. I don’t need it to debate the proposed ‘end results’. Best know the gross limit, range, oil and fuel levels and a check list of other small details for what ever I.. you steal.

    On Oahu we were taught to put down on any cane field strip. At Hana Maui you had a choice of rocks and palms at one end and rocks and water at the other…….. ohhhhh toot toot goes my ego’s horn.

    Thanks MD. You got me thinking there.. and thinking about a better pickup truck.

    So toot-ith Thomas T. Tinker.

  11. Well being the EXPERT pilot I am that can get an overweight plane off the ground, no one jumps. I am so good of a pilot that I will be able to crash land that plane with everyone surviving!!! My buddies leave no one behind so we all survive or we all go down.

  12. MorePooperThanPrepper says:

    Barak Obama and Nancy Pelosi.

    What do you mean no one is stupid enough to be riding on a plan that is about to crash?

    • You mean you would have invited Obama and Pelosi on to your stolen airplane? The rest of us would have let them get eaten by zombies.

      • Nebraska Woman says:

        Those two invite themselves wherever they go and take our multi million dollar military planes with them. But unless they had minions to serve them whatever they wanted and massages on demand, they probably would not have been in that plane. Obama would never have allowed his golf clubs to be thrown out.

    • Hunker-Down says:

      What if Harry Reid and Al Sharpton were in the group along with the two you mentioned?

      And just WHY are you hanging (pun intended) with that bunch?

      • Hunker-Down
        Time for kamikazi

      • H-D,

        That plane would get really light really quick. I would through all of them aboard.

        Now I’ve got it. I’ve got the real question: Suppose you are in a life boat with Obama, Michele, Reid, Sharpton, and Pelosi. You have to throw at least two of them overboard, if the rest of the group has any chance to survive. Who would you toss out first? Is there anyone you would consider saving?

  13. this is by far the least likely scenario I have seen, even less likely than the trade post/slave scenario. first not many people can fly a plane, its not as simple as driving a car or using a boat. movies and tv make it look like planes can take off quick but a lot of maintenance and startup work need to be done first. its not like jumping in a beat up truck everything needs to work right.

    why would anyone dump the fuel, if you dump the fuel you go down no matter who you throw out. the info in this scenario indicates a lot of bad choices similar to what a bunch of teenagers might do (steal a plane without knowing how to do more than a first day flight lesson, dump the fuel and think you can stay up by throwing people out).

    land the plane

  14. This the dumbest one I have read, I agree with most of the above comments, If I stole a plane, I deserve what I get, I don’t understand how pushing two people out will make a difference. So then I will use my “magic powers”, turning myself into a blimp and slowly float down to the ground. This is sort of like a life boat scenario, two people have to go or the boat will sink, then trying to determine who has the most to offer to save the group.

  15. I am very surprised at the level of some of the answers. Why nitpick the way the scenario is written?

    To me it seems like it’s either sacrificing 2 people or the entire group dies.

    Is that too tough to answer that people just feel more comfortable writing about how unlikely this is?

    Of I was in that situation, the least useful people would go.

    You all need to chill and see the big picture here folks, this is supposed to sharpen our survival mindset, not to give us an opportunity to display how small minded we are.

    • “You all need to chill and see the big picture here folks, this is supposed to sharpen our survival mindset, not to give us an opportunity to display how small minded we are.”–
      Or to just be a FUN GAME (which is what it is) of what if’s…..
      laugh or die trying!!!!

    • Nate, in problem-solving/negotiations training, they often present exercises that look like “either/or” choices and pair people up with instructions to negotiate the best solution. People tend to try to get the best “deal” inside the “either/or” parameters.

      After each pair reports, the presenter points out other solutions that got overlooked because they assumed that the obvious “either/or” choices were the only solutions.

      Rejecting the “dump two or all die in a crash” paradigm quickly gives you more of the 5 minutes to find another way out.

      • Lantana,

        I agree. This is an example of the either-or fallacy. Another problem with this case is that if you were really in such a situation, you would not know for sure that all would be saved if you tossed two out. And the uncertainty here would make you less likely to toss people to their death.

    • So if you were the least useful, you would willingly jump? Least useful at what, at that point most useful is the people that can fly or weigh the least, but once you get on the ground the pilot might be the least useful since he can’t start a fire, or lift more than 10 pounds. But the big guy you threw out….and he is really big and didn’t want to go, is great at making shelter, fires and travelling. Which doesn’t matter because you crash in a lake and he can’t swim. Useful is an interesting term.

    • Nate,
      The big picture in this case is based on the basic physics of flight. If we’re going to ignore that, then perhaps we’ll just fire up the hyperdrive and be were we need to be instantly.

  16. Hmm…If the scenario is me, 2 MALES and four females then the 2 males go and I inherit the harem to repopulate the planet…MMWWAAAaaa-haaaa-haaa-haaaaaa (in his most evil laugh!!)

  17. Well, if it went into detail of the specific skills/abilities of each member, then we could debate who should go or who should stay, thus sharpening our skills as leaders, the games point. However, as I and others have said, this is not a well thought out scenario. to make a good one to argue back and forth, there has to be a goal you can visualize, i.e.” if we can fly 10 more minutes we can land safely” and then skills/attributes of each member known, i.e. “bill is a doctor, sally is a mechanic, etc. so then you can debate. Right now I say all are criminals and deserve death, or I am going to use my magic powers, and no one can argue with me. I guess we just spoiled and want a better scenario to work with.

  18. Texanadian says:

    I would offer to jump, And take the steering colum with me. 🙂

  19. Texanadian says:

    “four females”…
    One is your mother, one is grandmother, one is your lesbian sister and the other is an elderly nun.


  20. If you are about to crash why even bother having people jump? Go out with your homies in a blaze of glory. Personally, I would rather die together than expect anyone to die just for me.

    • Patriot Dave says:

      Concur. Besides, I don’t think I could trust my 6 to someone who would dump his buddies to save his neck.

  21. They know they are going to crash in five minutes… I would like their crystal ball.
    The dumb @$$ that overloaded the plane to begin with should be first to leave… everyone else is going to crash anyhow since they already dumped fuel.
    Spend that time wisely… look for a place to land. DUH, if they were smart the plane would not have been overloaded in the first place. I think it is time to add recipients to the Darwin Award.

  22. GoneWithTheWind says:

    So simple. The guy(s) with guns push out the guys without guns.

    • Or they all shoot each other and the plane lands in the trees while the surviving members die of infection from a gut shot.

  23. Maybe the plane lost an engine and now its overloaded based on power to weight ratio?

    Maybe there was a nuke strike and the plane was the fastest way out of the area?

  24. JeffintheWest says:

    Go back to the beginning. Don’t steal. And especially don’t steal an airplane.

  25. Okay, as others have pointed out this scenario is too flawed. A well known more realistic scenario has it a certain number of people on a life raft that can only hold # of people – x on it and stay safe.
    Even in that scenario though a creative mind will see the option of having people or objects float next to the life raft giving more usablitiy.
    In this case the plane may have been the escape plane for Bad team #1 which was defeated by your team only to have the commotion attract an unfightably superior Bad team #2, so plane was ‘commandered’ to allow your team to escape- unfortunately the plane is too small to carry all of you and all of your gear to the safe bug out location.
    Still the answer is ‘_Land the plane_ with everyone aboard_, off load safely everyone but the pilot, who will go ahead as scout and to prep the safe zone.’ Of course if it cant be landed and take off again that’s fine, you can still use it as shelter, and possibly transport (wheels or wings can be remove and as long as engine works it can move the plane forward on a road.)
    I hope the next scenario is better.

  26. Easy for me.
    The two most useless people go. Survival of the fittest, and useful.
    In any situation such as this, you’d know by now who brings what to the table.

    Or, anyone wearing a red shirt. That is spells doom in any situation.

  27. The facts, as they are outlined in the situational description, boil down to ” the combined weight of any two of the seven occupants leaving the plane will resolve the overloading that is leading to a crash within 5 minutes”.

    There is not enough information given to be able to come up with any solutions other than …… Crash with all 7 aboard and hope for the best outcome. Crash survivors will know that they acted with honor rather than consider any one of their buddies (team) expendable.

  28. I would say the scenario, although improbable, is designed to make us think. We have an emergency and very little time to process our decision making apparatus. Two die and four live. What two (off the cuff, one of those going would be the idiot that decided we should steal the plane)? The other thing is once the decision is made who is going to jump out the door on his/her own? You could pick me all day long but once that door is open I’m gonna sling out the first person I can reach. We obviously started out as a group so all members are on the plane for a reason, probably due to the skill level of each.
    So, the answer would be the two folks that could be flung the easiest…

  29. Tactical G-Ma says:

    If two of my community must die for the remainder to survive, then the weakest and/or least intelligent should be sacrificed. I believe in gene pool cleansing. However, I would sacrifice myself to save my children and grandchildren.

  30. cynthia rafler says:

    I am 50, so I have lived my life. i would be one of the volunteers, I guess the others would have to draw straws or hope they survive the crash. I would wait till the airplane was at it’s lowest altitude to jump, say my prayers, drink some alcohol and just do it. Not much prepping involved here, accept I don’t foresee stealing an airplane in the first place, but if my family was on it, I guess I would be. Because right now I am going down with that ship.

    • (Sorry hit report instead of reply….too easy to do that)

      Cynthia, 50 is nowhere near a life lived. I am closer to 50 than 40 and other than not being able to bear children anymore I feel little different thank when I was 30. To me the age 50 seems like the best…..If you are relatively healthy. By then your children are likely almost grown, or already grown and you can look forward to grandchildren. You have “found” yourself or finally discovered you were never lost. You either know what you are going to be when you grow up, or you realize you are never going to grow up. The energy that was spent on others, and self.made crisis can be spent making you happy, not to mention the money. As for survival I would rather have people with experience then pure muscle. A fifty year old is still in decent shape if they want to be, and they have a lot more knowledge and skill sets. I can find muscle…….but someone with years of adapting and hands on life experience can’t be replicated.

      • I’m with you, N2Y, I’m still closer to 30 than 40 but I plan to still be kickin’ when I’m 50!

    • cynthia,
      I’m 60+ and not volunteering. As for the alcohol, it’s already been tossed.

  31. gray hawk says:

    This being a survival situation , if they were trying to escape for instance the horde of crazies or a burning city , stealing an airplane would make sense . Also weather would make a factor on being overloaded . The plane wouldn’t handle correctly so adjustments would have to be made. Quickly checking to see if any aboard had any critical injuries . There’re not going to make it anyway . No injured , then try to land on high way if possible , then hope for the best .

  32. Ok…the card says 2 people have to die to make the airplane ‘stable’. I’d say, hang on tight for a bumpy ride until the plane can be landed. You’ve already dumped the fuel, so the plane is coming down either way.

  33. I’ll treat this question with all the seriousness it deserves.

    Selection Process:
    1. Raise your hand if you voted for Obama. Those who raise their hands get chucked off the plane.
    2. If no one voted for Obama then pick the biggest guy to get the maximum value for your murder and make sure the other one is the idiot who came up with this bright idea in the first place.

  34. Big Steve says:

    I bought the game and we debated this question for a while. It was interesting to hear my friends answers but one friend was quick to dump people out of the plane. This game shines when you actually play with people at home. You really get a sense of who you can trust and who you need to possibly watch in your group.

    Doing questions like this with “team” members is just as important as buying food in my opinion. The game is worth the money to see all of the questions and there are some great scenarios in the deck.

  35. After seeing the scenario I was just going to skip the comments today but boy am I glad I read them. You people are hilarious. My side hurts from laughing.

  36. Msgtretired says:

    No one jumps. The lord will decide if anyone dies in the upcoming crash. If it’s just weight. There are still the avionics, those radios are heavy. Unless obama and pelosi are the 2 then I tell them to save themselves from the firey crash they must jump into the safety net the government has set up below us. They love safety nets and would fight to see who jumps 1st.

  37. John in MN. says:

    You have all missed the point it is not about the air plane.
    Think about this.
    This is one of the things I talk about with others …..
    Who stays and who goes …………..
    If you have not had this conversion with your group, You need to…

    John in MN>

    • I completely agree. What’s the point in avoiding the heart of the matter to discuss technicalities. Face the music folks, hope none of us are ever in a situation where two must die so that the rest may live.

    • Well in that case I guess I would throw out the Grandchildren. They are the least useful, and the kids can always make more.

      • Schatzie Ohio says:

        That sounds like what happens in the animal kingdom. You always see the young animals get eaten while the parent lives to breed another day.

    • John in MN,
      Sending someone away from your BOL is nothing at all like throwing them from a great height with no parachute.

  38. Of the 7, the first to go would be the guy that figured weights and balances. That leaves 6. Five of us are armed. That leaves you and I didn’t like you much to begin with…

  39. This is a test in leadership and survival. In this test you must make a decision God,morality, praying , or hoping someone will volunteer have no basis. This is a life lesson. Planes can and do lift off overloaded, They stole the plane to survive, the weakest are still at the airport,
    maybe the plane needs that extra lift to rise above a mountain but the fact remains two must go. I would shoot the two who most threatened my leadership (Only one alpha male to a group). this way they don’t have to worry about the fall (it’s not the fall that kills it’s the landing lol) killing them.

    • MorePooperThanPrepper says:

      Kelley, I think you have an odd sense of leadership. I hope we never meet.

      I think many of the folks here would laugh at the idea that God and Morality have no basis (relevance?) to leadership or survival.

      • Then Pooper you don’t know your history. just to name a few Stalin,Mao Zedong,Sherman,Alexandra the great,Castro,Hitler.
        It’s not the smartest that survive The over educated are usually the first fall to chaos they tend to over think the situation and will not react even to save themselves. Those who survive are the most brutal,cunning, and will to do anything in order to survive or those smart enough to follow.
        Remember the saying about the carrot and the stick? The carrot is life, the stick is just that.
        Yes I understand that many here would laugh cause to them this is a game all warm and cozy and as you can see from the above posts they will not play unless the rules suit them,survival has no rules

  40. When I first read the card all I could think of “…The dead ones?”

  41. Science, (maybe)… if the problem is weight, then The pilot stays seated and flies the plane while the other 6, in VERY RAPID SUCCESSION, jump into the air. The object is to have at least 2 or more in the air at all times. This would remove the weight of 2 or more people from the plane and the pilot makes a safe landing. Everyone saved! You got to admit it sounds good on paper.

    • Harry:

      Is that like the old one of everybody in a free falling elevator waiting until you are 3′ from the bottom and jump up?

    • Texanadian says:

      In the movie Spirit of St. Louis, about Linbergs flight over the Atlantic there is a scene where a fly is buzzing around the inside of the plane. He speculates about whether it adds weight to plane while buzzing or if it only adds weight when it lands. He had carefully calculated fuel and weight ratios so it was not a completely idle thought. I can’t remember what he finally figured out.

    • Harry,
      It also works in cartoons.

  42. Tactical G-Ma says:

    Many of us insist on trying to save everyone. In a perfect world that is wonderful. But that thinking has gotten this country in the mess we are in. Not everyone can be saved. Sacrificing the strongest to save the weakest, while kind, does not strengthen our species or society. Saving defective or non-conforming citizens is a luxury. If I had stolen a plane I would have to believe it was so important that extremes would be acceptable.

    • I think for most of us in a survival scenario the people we are going to be with are not just anybody, they are the people we live for today, and prepare for tomorrow. They are family or friends who are as close as family. The idea of sacrificing one is not possible. People will die from natural selection, luck, or behavior that demands justice but for many of us death is not the end, or the thing we fear most, and the idea of living at all costs is too high a price. It is a different scenario than if we were in a medical triage situation where there are indicators of survival and you have to decide on the battle field who to treat and who is beyond hope. Or even if we had to bug out and the jeep only holds 8 people but there are 15 in the group. In that case I could see deciding who leaves in the vehicle and who probably dies from being left behind. But to have 7 people and expect to actively kill 2 of them, with no guarantees even that the other 5 will absolutely be saved? Not sure how that happens or if most human beings would even arrive at that being the possible solution.

      • grandma bear says:

        I think you hit the nail on the head! With no guarantees ride the plane down together and hope for the best outcome.

  43. sdawgarmy says:

    Ok. Well covered guys. I need opinion on moving to the big island of Hawaii. Post economic shtf (which i believe most likely )are will it be good location to survive……? I know a ton of their goods are imported. But say i have initial 12months food saved n plenty of rainfall to drink plus sealife to eat. I would think it would be a pretty good self sustainable place to live. EVERYTHING grows there. Im just wondering how isolated it might be compared to other states Population is 190000. I dont think the hoardes of honolulu would attemp venture across ocean. What say you? Paradise or death trap?

    • The fact that the hoardes would or could not cross the ocean, seems to increase the likelihood of them finding & looting your place. How much is the population per square mile?

      • Population is actually pretty small per square mile, especially once the un-prepped go paws up.

        The Parker Ranch is around a quarter million acres and is one of the country’s bigger cattle ranches. It is a working ranch, tho, so the ranch hands might not take kindly to poachers. If you got there early enough to become a member of the community, you might have a chance. Show up late, and you might become a virgin sacrifice to the volcano.

        The Big Island is about as isolated as you can get. Honolulu (on Oahu, of course) is the most geographically isolated major city on earth. I would not want to be on the Big Island (or anywhere else, for that matter) when things fell apart unless I was a long-established and well liked member of the community. If you got naturally irrigated land in a farming community…maybe. But such land does not come on the market much, and it is expensive.

        There is a certain amount of racism out here, and it is largely directed toward whites. Mainland whites are especially unpopular with those who dislike whites in general. So, if you are white and from the Mainland, you would not be a target for a lot of people, but you would definitely be a target for some people. It only takes one.

        Also, once things fell apart, you would be 2400 miles from the West Coast. You would not be walking away if you decided that you had made a mistake.

        If someone was seriously considering moving here, I’d suggest they do some research on Big Island farm land, visit a couple times, and see if they can fit in with what tends to be a pretty insular community before making a big commitment.

        Even in good times, they would be giving up a lot in return for needing to get in a plane to go to the next county, and get in a plane for 5+ hours to visit the next state…and then they are only in CA. And spend $500-600 for the pleasure. Also with likely THE most restrictive gun laws in America, a culture of gut level knee jerk control freaks on every issue possible, and one of the highest taxed states in the country.

        Oh…and the AVERAGE price of a used house, statewide, is approaching $700,000. Predicted to hit a million in about three years as the enviros have made it so difficult to build housing. A quarter acre lot in a “normal, middle class” suburban neighborhood can easily cost $600,000. Then you put a 1500 square foot house on it and you are looking at $800,000.

        That’s why you see a lot of three generation households: grandparents, a couple of adult kids with their spouses, and their children. So five or six adults and as many kids in a 1500-2000 square foot house. Totally standard here.

        Hawaii has a very, very, unhealthy culture and political climate. I expect it to get worse, too. Control freaks everywhere.

    • sdawgarmy,
      I don’t know about the Big Island; but, my sister was stationed on Oahu for about 8 years. As nice as it is for vacationing, it is a captive of our modern transport system. My sis recognized noticeable shortages of goods, after only 3 weeks of a longshoreman strike in CA. The rental house she lived in, courtesy of Uncle Sam, was about 1600 Sq. Ft on a postage stamp lot, and was valued at something like $1,200,000 about 6 years ago. I suspect there are many better places than a remote island to bake your stand.

  44. JP in MT

    Absolutely! But timing is everything…

  45. k. fields says:

    There are a couple of historic parallels that came to my mind when I read this. First was the Burma to China flights of WWII which the planes could barely make it over the Himalayas. So I figured first, this was somewhat like that type of scenario – you stole a plane to get on the other side of a mountain range where you would be safe and as you began climbing, you dumped everything possible to lighten the plane’s load leaving only enough fuel to reach the meadows open enough for landing once you’ve cleared the mountains. Like the Burma to China runs, there is no place to land until you have cleared the peaks.
    But the plane beings icing up and you must shed more weight to make it over “the hump.”

    So, the second historic scenario, the voyage of the whaling ship Essex. The 238-ton Essex was rammed and sunk by a sperm whale leaving the crew to take to lifeboats for an estimated 2,000 mile journey to reach land. A number of things happened during the lifeboat journey, but the part applicable to this was that members of one lifeboat drew lots to see who would be killed and eaten so the other crew members could survive.

    So taking both of these for inspiration – the plane needs to be lightened, there is no possibility of landing until clearing the mountains and 2 crew members must be sacrificed to allow the others to get to safety – I would have everyone draw lots and the 2 “short straws” go out the door. Like the Essex, you would probably also need to draw lots to determine who would be responsible to kill your 2 crew mates. Self-sacrifice is noble but hard to do.

    • “Like the Essex, you would probably also need to draw lots to determine who would be responsible to kill your 2 crew mates.” What did u mean by the last part – who would be responsible to kill ur 2 crew mates??

      • k. fields says:

        If the crew members who drew the short straws (the condemned) didn’t willingly jump, someone would need to be responsible to assure that they quickly exited the plane.
        No one likes to send people to their death, so appointing an executioner by drawing lots would be the fairest thing to do – which was how the scenario played out on the Essex lifeboat.

  46. This is easy. We would grab the two Unionized, Obama Voter, baggage handlers and throw them off.

  47. Another day of laughter….that IS what makes life worth living.
    Thank you all!!!

  48. So there are 7 people on board, & 2 need to take the dive for the rest. 1st, the 1 or 2 who know how to pilot & land the plane have to stay on, in order to land the plane w/ the others to survive.

    2. I have lived probably 70-80% of my life already & have several chronic health conditions that could leave me UNable to help in a survival situation, & I have complete confidence in my Savior, Jesus, to accept me into heaven. Therefore, if my spouse/child(ren), or a close friend was/were also on board, I would offer to jump out with the understanding that my family/friend be allowed to survive.

    • MorePooperThanPrepper says:

      Would it be less than christian to wait and see if your Child/Spouse was one of the ones who got the short straw before offering yourself up?

      If two of your old neighbors get the short straws do you hold your tongue?

    • patientmomma says:

      suicide is not an acceptable answer; you would have to push me.

  49. Agree with Ronald

  50. Encourager says:

    How about making the two heaviest jump??

    Seriously, if you got off the ground, why is the plane suddenly ‘too heavy’? Good grief, instead of debating, look for somewhere to land. How do you make a decision to kill two of your group in five lousy minutes?

    You should have never stolen the plane in the first place…just sayin’.

  51. Tactical G-Ma says:

    This scenario really disturbs me. I flash back to the helicopter evacuation of the Saigon embassy. All those people left behind. The chopper couldn’t hold everyone. If the pilot had tried, no one would have survived. In crisis hard decisions must be made. No matter what we think we might do, there really is no telling until faced with that decision.

  52. Easy. Of the 6, only three and I are like minded. So we throw Obama, Biden and Holder out with extreme pleasure.

  53. patientmomma says:

    I would keep all hands on board, no body jumps or gets shoved. If I’m smart enough to steal a plane, take off and fly it, I’m gonna keep it airborne as long as possible. I would keep flying and look for a place to set that puppy down .

  54. plain is going down, it dose not matter how light it is. it is going to crash no mater what. ride it out.

  55. otterridge says:

    you have already dump the food and fuel and you are going to crash I would go ahead and jump who knows I just may make it

  56. Most likely if u stole a plane u are bad guys.that means that bad dudes will choose the weakest ones and throw them off
    If u stole it for escape,survival then buckle down land the plane.

  57. Beans-N-Bullets says:

    I’m throwing out the first person that starts deciding who is going to be thrown out and from the nit-picking I’ve seen come up from this question I’m jumping next, assuming the spread eagle position and riding that wave into bliss.
    I stole the plane because I wanted out of work, just didn’t want to go in today : )
    Think outside the box or jump out of the box : )
    I crack me up. lol : )

  58. Jersey Drifter says:

    Let’s hope that the idea of crashing makes 2 people so nervous that they crap in their pants and vomit. You convince the rest that the 2 are really, really, sick with some kind of deadly infectious disease, and the rest push the 2 out.

    But really….know one goes….we all ride it out and take our chances.

  59. If you know anything about flying, getting into this situation is absurd. An aircraft that is still too heavy after dumping out everything except the passengers, would have never gotten off the ground, or would have crashed and killed everyone as soon as the craft was high enough to clear ground effect. All of you are already dead, long before this situation occurred.

    • What happens if a small aircraft malfunctions and looses enough power that making it lighter would enable it to continue on to its destination?

      And besides that, you completely missed the point of the scenario. Its asking if you had to sacrifice 2 people in your team so that the rest may live, how would you go about deciding it.

  60. Sorry,but I ain’t jumping out of any perfectly good airplane,even with a parachute!

  61. Patriot Dave says:

    The problem with these ‘lifeboat’ scenarios is they feed on people’s fear of death. We all die eventually. The death rate is 1 per person. The real questions are: Where is your eternal destiny? and Are you afraid to die? Do you have assurance that you will be welcomed into the arms of God the Father because you trusted in the sacrifice of God the Son. If so, then it is a matter of living AND dying honorably. We walk THROUGH the valley of the SHADOW of death. We don’t stay. And, it is only death’s shadow, not the second death. “For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.” as Paul wrote in Philippians 1:21. I would not throw anyone out. If we “leave no one behind”. We especially don’t push them out.
    Besides, after you throw out the two to their deaths, the plane still runs out of fuel and the rest die as well. Even if you manage to survive the crash landing, you will die of your injuries. Even if you are mobile, you threw out all of your supplies. Can you survive this terrain without your techie toys, your tacticool gear? Most can’t.
    One last note. The two sacrificed will fight like their lives depend upon it. and it will take more than 5 minutes to wrestle them to the door. or your have to shoot them and then throw them.

  62. Rock paper scissors tournament.

  63. I pick the two I find the most useless aside, away from the others, one at a time of course and kill them. If this left up to a vote, I would rather not leave my name to be in the lot. I would rather pick the least valued members and move on.

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