Direct Gas Impingement vs. Gas Piston Driven AR-15’s

 Direct Gas Impingement vs. Gas Piston Driven AR 15s

Question and Answers with The Wolf Pack

Question FarmerKin

I would like to get the Pack’s help regarding AR-15’s. More specifically, Direct Gas Impingement vs. Gas Piston Driven. I understand the basic difference in the way they operate, but I don’t know how to decide which style to get when the time comes. Hoping the Pack can give me some things to consider.

Also wondering about the mags. I was at a gun show recently and a guy had a bunch of the metal surplus mags for $5/ea. Of course he also had the plastic type too, $15/ea. Wondering what the pack thinks about these. Is one more reliable than the other? Pros? Cons? Let’s say for example, to start with I have $45 to spend on mags, would I be better off getting 3 plastic, 9 metal, or some combination?

Thanks in advance, I am loving this segment!

Comments

  1. I don’t know much about the AR-15 them being restricted here in Canada, but I do have some experience with metal vs. plastic mags for my Mini 14 and my SKS.

    Metal ALL THE WAY.

    The plastic ‘duckbill’ mags for my SKS started showing signs of fraying and wear along the top ‘hook’s that keep the bullets in after only 50 rounds. The one I have for my mini 14 was a bit better but the metal ones show very little signs of wear except for some slight scratching on the outside from handling.

    From what I understand about the market right now, if the mags are $5 each you should probably have bought all of them!!

  2. axelsteve says:

    I have no experience with an ar anything. As common sense though ,if you find good metal ar mags for 5 bucks each get them. You may also want to get some magpul or the disco synthetic version of if you like. If you don`t like them trade them off. I have seen magpulls with the built in bullet buttons if you live in comradfornia like me.As far as piston and the other system I don`t know, that is like talking about ford versus chevy and I am a dodge man.. Sometimes you gotta stock up on some stuff when you can, heck I bought some 12 gauge slugs once and I don`t even have a shotgun. They were cheap and they may come in handy.

    • FarmerKin says:

      Actually, I did buy 1 of the plastic PMags and two of the metal ones. I figured I would need them at some point and could always trade them if need be.

  3. Thunder ba says:

    Nothing will cause a nice ar to malfunction more than poor magazines. There are a lot of different ar mags on the market and just as many opinions. I’m going to guess that the plastic mags you saw where p mags from magpul. I will also guess they are the favorite here. I personally dislike them. I prefer h and k mags. They are expensive but they work. If you don’t want to spend the extra money i would suggest buying the cheap mags and then adding a better follower. Upgrading the follower will drastically improve the reliability of the mag. P mags are very reliable and all around good mags. I’m the minority at work in preferring the others. I dislike them because 1. The ripples on the side make it difficult to conduct tac reloads, they can break when it gets below freezing, the tend to get hung up when trying to conduct a reload. These are all minor issues but i don’t like them.

  4. Thunder ba says:

    When it comes to gas verses piston there is a huge divide amongst ar shooters. I will say i prefer gas. I will also say if you want piston then buy a gun that already has one like an ak or scar. Really unless you shoot a thousand rounds a session i can’t see the need for the piston. It’s more parts and its difficult to free float the barrel. ,there is also discussions of the piston damaging the bolt. It’s also much more expensive for the piston. I feel like the gas system is a little more accurate. It all depends on what you value most.

  5. I’m not an AR guru but having a couple DI AR’s as well as a piston AR, here’s my $0.02.

    Cleaning: the bolt and chamber of the piston AR doesn’t get nearly as dirty as the DI’s. The piston version does however accumulate gunk in the piston area which needs to be cleaned occasionally. So there’s an extra step there, but I still find the piston version faster and easier to clean overall due to so much less carbon buildup in the bolt area.

    Ammo: my DI’s guns are pretty reliable with steel cased ammo. My piston does not like steel at all. I’ve heard people say their piston AR’s do fine with steel but that’s not been my experience. On the other hand, while I consider my DI’s to be very reliable overall, with brass, my piston has been 100% since the day I got it. Even during break-in.

    Weight: all else being equal, the piston does add weight to the gun. It’s actually not much, but because it’s all near the muzzle it feels like more extra weight than it actually is.

    Subjectively, recoil feels very slightly less on my piston AR but AR’s in general have so little recoil it really is academic.

    This is all based on my very limited sample size so take it as just another data point. I’m personally fine with either DI or piston and would just get whichever AR provides the most value for your budget regardless of the gas system.

    As far as the magazines, not all plastic mags are created equal. Some are great, some are junk. PMags (by Magpul) are pretty much the gold standard for plastic mags and if you’re getting PMags for $15 that seems a reasonable price at this time. I can’t really comment on other plastic mag brands. For $5, the metal mags may be a bargain but it depends on what shape they’re in. If you’re certain they’re in good shape, I’d probably grab ‘em at that price, but unless you feel comfortable that you’re able to accurately judge their condition (and assuming the plastic mags are PMags) I’d personally get the PMags.

    • Harry the hat says:

      Too add the piston AR will run cooler because the gas never gets the high temp of the impingement never makes to the bolt. You never have the bolt receive the dirt from gas. As for the PMags are given to the army to use. A friend came back from from Kabul and the PMags were had was the 2nd gen. Now the PMags are have been improved to 3rd gen. A lot of people are going to pistons because of have fewer problems. I have both and I prefer the piston as easy to clean and easer to take appoint.

    • FarmerKin says:

      Wow, JCA thank you for the great break down. All good things to consider.

  6. riverrider says:

    where to start…..gas vs piston. the ar15 was designed for gas operation and any piston add-on is like pinning a tail on a koala bear. i have been working on/repairing m16’s for 29 years. there’s nothing wrong with the rifle other than operator headspace. yes, it takes a little cleaning now and again. are we really that lazy that we can’t spend 10 minutes cleaning the darn thing?(not you specifically but we as a group). being in military weapons repair for so long, i have seen many modifications come and go. most of them make the system they are put on even more prone to breakage/ stoppage. if you must have a clean firing weapon buy a fal, hk, m1a or other purpose built piston rifle, not one that has been added on. there will be differing opinions on this but i didn’t pull mine out of my backside. additionally, most of the current piston ar/m4 rifles haven’t been around long enough nor had enough rounds put thru them to determine their longevity/reliability. stick with a proven design whichever way you go.
    mags….depends on the maker. magpul (polymer) are tops with me and most troops in the field use them if they can get them. that said, there are many fine metal mags out there like cmmg, colt, d&h, and others. personally i would buy quality over quantity. i will buynd i do own plenty of used mags but i won’t put my life on them alone. sometimes used mags are being sold for a reason.once you have a few first rate mags you could buy a sampling of the surplus mags to test out. many rifle failures can be traced to magazine issues. i have seen magpuls online cheaper than good metal mags in the last week or so. how many? at least 3 or 4 at first then build up from there. mags wear out and become damaged in use. the first set will get you thru any trouble you are likely to see. if not, a thousand mags probly wouldn’t help. get my drift?
    one more thing. don’t fall for the hype that you have to have a load of laser this and optic that and thousand lumen light x. with all those bells and whistles the rifle still needs one thing, a well trained operator. good luck.

    • Without a doubt, the most solid advice given here. I do however believe in the evolution of the AR. But I would let others be the guinea pigs on working out things till they are reliable. Heck, a small block Chevy was designed with 16 valves, cast iron heads and carburetors, none of which they have today and they are better for it.

    • FarmerKin says:

      riverrider, I always value your advice, and yes I get your drift. Not much into the gadgets. I like my cars naturally aspirated and I like to get good with the iron sights before ever thinking about optics. Thank you for your words of wisdom.

    • RR,
      I concur with about everything you’ve said here.
      On the magazine issue, I use a combination of 20 & 30 round Colt and 30 Round Magpul PMAGs, and rarely have a failure, unless a magazine is getting worn. One thing I would recommend on your magazines is to number or label each of them with a different number or label. If you start having magazine problems, you can keep track of the magazines that are having issues, or if it’s suddenly a lot of them, the fact that the rifle may be having issues. Mag retention parts on the rifle can also wear over time and use.

  7. For my money, I only buy Magpul mags for my ARs.
    They’re uber-reliable and nearly indestructible.
    That said, there are a lot of Magpul knock-offs out there and I’d be careful with them. If I found some at a much lower price I might buy one and put it through some hard use to see how it would stand up. But that will eliminate any savings simply due to the ammo needed to do this testing. So for me, it’s Magpul all the way.

    I’ve had no experience with the gas piston ARs but I understand they are typically more expensive. The gas impingement style rifles have been in the field for 50 years give or take. That doesn’t mean that a better mouse trap can’t be built, but when it comes to cost, I have to ask myself is it really worth that extra? For me the answer is no. The performance of the two systems aren’t enough different in my mind to warrant an additional cost.

    • Magpul all the way. If you run over a metal magazine it will bend or deform and not allow proper feeding. Not so with Magpul. Run over one of those and nothing happens. You can continue feeding your AR-15!

  8. JP in MT says:

    Gas vs. Piston. If I could get a piston upper that was designed that way from the ground up, I would. The cost is just nuts. I have a lot of parts for gas systems and can support 6 AR’s and the cost was much less than one piston upper.

    Conversions kits: Riverrider said it best, stay away from them. Even the 22 LR kits. I’ve used them, and if you don’t like maintenance, they will really cause you grief. Plus you are sending a .221 bullet down a .224 barrel. Doesn’t sound like much, but at over 50 yards, it really tells. I have a second AR-type in 22 LR, and used it was considerably cheaper than a replacement upper. The only advantage I see, is being able to get used to the same trigger group using 22 LR ammo. But for most people it is a waste.

    Mags: I have both Mag-Pul and metal mags. Mag-pul’s because of the reports I’ve gotten from Afghanistan; they work! And this from guys who were being shot at. I tend to respect their comments.

    In metal, I prefer Teflon-coated stainless steel. New they were about $2 each more than aluminum, and were $4-5 cheaper than Mag-Puls. When you drop an aluminum magazine, you can bend the feed lips and the body very easily, especially when loaded and dropped on a hard surface. You can go from a mag that holds and functions with 28+ rounds to one that will only shoot 10-12, of if you bend the feel lips, a heavy paperweight. In a peace time / support military role (like mine) doing this at the range was frustrating. In combat it will get you killed.

    Your life will depend on your magazines, buy accordingly!

    • FarmerKin says:

      JP, I agree, no higher word of authority than the experience of our guys on the line. Thank your for sharing.

  9. Plastic mags come in all forms. If you are talking about Magpul P Mags, I feel they have no superior. It is without a doubt the toughest sturdiest most reliable mag I have ever used. They are combat proven and I will stake my life on them.

  10. waterboy says:

    My vote goes to Magpul P-mags. The best. Just because one is metal and one is “plastic” doesn’t mean the metal is better. Do some research and make your decision.

  11. As for the Mags, were they new? Used?
    As for tube vs piston, in semi auto it doesn’t make that much difference.
    I remember all sorts of warning on AR-15’s and GI mags in the 70’s and 80’s. And maybe on full auto it matters. Fact is I and my friends never had a failure with US/NATO made ammo in a factory AR.

    • FarmerKin says:

      Ethan,

      The metal ones were used. They looked to be ex-military style mags. The man had a giant tub of them.

      The plastic ones were new and made by MagPul.

      I went ahead and bought one MagPul and two of the metal ones. They are apparently aluminum. I wouldn’t have guessed it, but when JP mentioned steel and aluminum, I grabbed a magnet to test.

      • The GI metal were all aluminum. The only downside I ever noticed is they get bright and shinny. As I mentioned, for semi auto only I’ve never had a failure with good ammo. I have had some plastic that wouldn’t seat in some brands of ARs. In those they would, they worked fine. Most of the horror stories come from full auto with ammo loaded with the wrong powder. The fact that troops in Vietnam were told the M-16 didn’t need cleaning and no cleaning gear was issued! The M-16 was designed to use IMR tube powder giving a ROF of about 850rpm. The Army issued ammo loaded with ball powder with highamounts of calcium chloride. This gave a cyclic of over 1,000rpm. This increased parts wear. The calcium chloride also caused a residue in the direct impingement NEVER CLEANED system. I wouldn’t worry with current ammo in semmi only. Be carefull of some imported ammo. It’s not all to spec. I stick to NATO makes.

        • PS: Colt was allowed to use IMR ammo to function test. The Army knew their ammo wasn’t kosher. Read Ezell’s excellent “The Great Rifle Controversy”.

        • FarmerKin says:

          Wow Ethan, I guess I shouldn’t be shocked, but wow! Our men were out there putting their life on the line, and our goobs send them with bad knowledge and tools. That is just lower than low.

          What scares me is that was forty-some years ago. Our society’s morals have decayed quite significantly since then. What are our current men and women working with?

          • Apparently, there was direct sabotage to desroy the M-16 program. The only reason it failed were the delays due to incompitence on the M-14 program. And all of the attempts to stop the M-16 were done without a single signiture on a single document. I strongly advise the whole ‘Pack’ to read “The Great Rifle Controversy” by C. Ezell pub by Stackpole. The M-60 program was just as bad. Instead of that turkey we could have had the FN MAG in 1960.

          • FarmerKin,
            The biggest problem with the M-16 during the early stages of the Vietnam War was Secretary of Defense, Robert S. McNamara. This guy was one of the Cluster Foxtrot whiz kids, who in his career got hundreds of our boys killed, and nearly bankrupt both Ford and the World Bank when he ran those organizations. There was a known issue with the rifle when the military switched powders which could easily be fixed with a chrome lining of the receiver. McNamara nixed this, because of the extra cost, and stated that if it needed to be chromed, the manufacturer would have done so. As I understand it, barrels were chromed and replaced without his knowledge and the rifle improved over time as these components were swapped out.

            • According to Ezell, the M-16 was one of the few things McNamara may have done right. The M-16 was more like an AK-47 than anything in the west at that time. The whole M-14 program was a fiasco. It was mismanaged, production was behind schedule. After 20 years of effort, The US army had produced a weapon that was basicly an M-1 in a different caliber with a 20 round mag. It took Beretta 2 years to turn the M-1 into the BM-59 and it used a slightly modified Garand receiver to boot. The early problems with the M-16 were all due to Army interference. Changes in rifling twist, and powder, combined with the never needs cleaning was criminal. But the Army wanted the invented here M-14.. Ironicly, The same people began defending the M-16 with that same ferocity in only a few years. By the way, I have never understood the refusal to chang the gas system.
              I also share your fealings about MacNamara. But this wasn’t his problem.

              • EthanP,
                As I understand it from books and articles I’ve read over the years, the rifle didn’t need much cleaning when using the original prescribed powder (flake IIRC), but the Army changed to a different twist and more importantly a dirtier powder (ball IIRC). The fix was to use the original powder, which wasn’t going to happen; or to chrome line the receivers, which as I understand it, was nixed by McNamara. I also understand that the not invented here syndrome was nixed by General Curtis Lemay when he ordered something like 2000 of them for his base security personnel, who liked the gun. The rest, as they say, is history.

                • Remember that these rifles were issued in the tropical climate of Vietnam. The origianals were issued to Special Foces who took excellent care of them. With the origianal twist, they were devistatingly effective. The army, in it’s infinite wisdom went to a slower twist to get more range. For jungle fighting! Issued without cleaning gear and telling troops they didn’t need cleaning. Disaster followed. Intrestingly, the USMC had fewer problems. Clean weapons are a religion to them. The investigation team Colt sent to Vietnam was stunned. Magazines were full of debris. Barrels were often completely blocked. Together with excessive wear from the too high cyclic rate, it’s actually a tribute to the basic design that they worked at all. The 18 rnd max load for the 20 round mags was due to the mag being unable to handle the 1,000+ RPM’s. At 800-850, as designed, they worked fine.
                  With the propper IMR powder, they didn’t get the calcium residue in the chamber and bolt area. But uncleaned barrels and chambers corroded quickly in the tropical humidity. The chrome plating, first the chamber and later the whole barrel helped immensely. As did a new recoil buffer and spring to bring the ROF down to spec. I really recomend Ezell’s books.

        • axelsteve says:

          I used to use imr powder and 165 grain sierra boattails for my 03 springfield. I think it pushed the 165 grain bullet at 2700 fps with that load.

  12. Shotgun6244 says:

    Buying mags is like anything else. Look for good value. Metal mags always worked fine in my DPMS Oracle as long as they were military grade. I also received the magpull plastic for christmas. I have had no problem with either, but in my opinion invest in the military grade metal. Just be sure to check for ware at the top and if used, have the seller demonstrate the loading. If he wants to sell them you can see them loaded with a couple rounds. See if they are held securely in the mag. My value would be to get as many good mags as I could before the SHTF.

  13. recoveringidiot says:

    RR and JP nailed it. I stay with the DI as you can usually find spare parts anywhere. At least we used to before TDL came along. The dirty AR stories fill books, here is one of mine, I used to help coach the state jr highpower team some years back and there was one youngster that refused to clean his AR. He shot the thing all year long without any problems and unless he had a brain fart he generally fired a HM score. I could not tell the rifle was any less accurate at the end of the year than it was at the first. He would squirt a little breakfree into the holes in the bolt carrier every once in a while and that was it. I myself can’t put my own away without cleaning it, that was beat into me a long time ago.

    • riverrider says:

      RI! hey man where the heck ya been? hope you and yours are well.

      • recoveringidiot says:

        RR, still here man. Reading a lot but laying low.
        I’m doing better than I deserve, thanks for asking.

  14. I’d go for the PMags. Those are the only mags I use in my AR and I haven’t had any problems with them. Most folks say that the feed lips on PMags won’t deteriorate if you leave them loaded. I have a few that were left loaded for about 4 months and had no issues. I did err on the side of caution and only load them to 28 rounds.

    My AK has mostly steel and a few plastic mags. A few of the steel mags have feeding issues. They will feed 1-2 rounds, but then you have to fully charge the bolt to get the round in. Those mags are now out of my rotation until I can fix them.

    I have a Ruger .556 which is a piston setup. It was designed around the piston, so the piston wasn’t just an added afterthought. I haven’t had any issues with cycling over about 2000 rounds so far. It has run great with brass and steel ammo. The gas block on the barrel does add some weight and you will notice it when you swing the gun up to your shoulder. After a day at the range, the bolt is still fairly clean and only requires a quick brushing, wiping, and light oiling.

    I don’t own a gas impingement rifle, but I have fired a few and haven’t noticed any difference in functioning.

    If I was a competition shooter, I may notice a difference in my groups from gun to gun. At most peoples’ skill level, if your shots are off, it’s likely due to the shooter and not the gun.

  15. Tinfoil Hat says:

    On the subject of AR15 mags (and mags in general) CDNN just now announced there 4th of July weekend sale on standard capacity magazines. Some really awesome prices this weekend (just submitted my order, tell me where else you’ll find Glock19 factory new mags for $25?? I’ll take 5 please and thank you). Orders over $99 ship free. Sorry MD, I know they’re not a site sponsor (incidentally, I have no affiliation to CDNN), but I thought folks might wanna know of a good deal…

  16. Kin_of_Sgt. Alvin C. York says:

    Over the years I have bought AR15s by Colt, Rock River, Palmetto Arms, and others, in carbine and full length models, all of which have been direct gas impingement. As long as you clean and oil them, I have seen no problem in their continued reliable operation.

    Getting parts for DI rifles is no problem, since there are so many out there. My rifles eat brass and steel-cased ammo without a hiccup.

    I understand the piston rifles run cooler and cleaner, but for me, the cost factor was an issue. How many sources of parts for piston rifles is an unknown to me.

    Mags? I’ve been using the aluminum military mags for decades without
    issues. Mags with bent or splayed out feed lips get tossed. You can buy rebuild kits for mags with new springs, floorplates and followers, but their cost versus a new mag (or a good used one) for me at least makes this impractical.

    Are the newer polymer mags “better?” Well, the mag’s job is to store and reliably feed rounds to the bolt when needed. That’s a function of a mag’s design, materials, spring and so forth. Will aluminum mags crush or deform? Sure. I examine each mag I use before lock and loading. If one is defective, it gets tossed or set aside and I use a proper one.

    I carry my loaded mags real close to me and that’s where I want them for east access. Mags are kept in OD canvas VietNam war-era waist ammo pouches on my belt or a bandoleer around my neck. If my mags get crushed or deformed, they are getting smashed first and then my body is getting smashed a few seconds later.

    My .02—first get a gas rifle. Use it; be proficient with it; clean it; tear it apart and know each part. If you’re unhappy or have extra coin, then buy a piston model.

  17. Rider of Rohan says:

    Some of you folks like Tinfoil Hat, Perrin and recovering idiot I haven’t seen around in a while. Good to know you gents are still in the game.

  18. Thunder ba says:

    I knew p mags would be the over wheeling favorites. You mentioned buying 2 aluminum mags also… I would strongly suggest checking that follower. Grab one and push the front part down. If just the front dips down and not the whole follower then you should upgrade it. Upgrading them is very cheap and will make a world of difference.

  19. I’m not expert but the AK is world renown for being reliable ……..the AK is piston driven . The SCAR series is becoming very popular …..it is piston driven . Coincidence ? I dont know . Just sayin .

  20. metal will out last plastic and wont break in cold temp.

    • The lubricants make a difference in cold temps as well . During the battle of Stalingrad , the Russians lubricated their weapons with a mixture of gun oil and diesel fuel , mainly due to shortages , This allowed their weapons to function better in the freezing conditions . The Germans did not do this and had a much higher weapon freeze occurrence . US bomber crews had ALL the lubricants removed from their machine guns because the high altitude cold would freeze up a lubricated weapon …….not good .

  21. Heya peeps,

    Gas piston is slightly superior to direct impingement due to less of the fouling getting to the bolt and bolt carrier, however this can be mitigated using proper lubrication techniques and lube. I use MilTec 1 dry lube, which does not create mud in the system when fouling is introduced, nor does it attract dirt or dust or fine sand particles as liquid lubes do. I have fired many thousands of rounds without malfunction through my Delton and have used nothing else on it or most of my other firearms. Follow the directions for application, it requires baking in using a very low temperature on the stove. I have even used this lube to treat my bores as it makes them rather non-stick and easier to clean. Obviously you can’t bake your whole barrel so I just fire a few rounds to heat it up a bit, let it sit, then reapply and do it all again.

    Plastic mags are all the rage, which means metal ones are typically cheaper. If they have the orange or grey followers, also called anti-tilt, they are nearly as good and reliable as HK high reliability mags, and at five bucks a piece I’d jump ALL over that. If they have the crappy green followers, orange followers can be bought and installed for a mere few cents a piece. I like metal mags for their durability in cold weather. Everyone has a preference, I like to stick with mil spec stuff so I can easily replenish my supplies with preexisting stockpiles.

    Hope that answers your questions.

    GIJeff

    • FarmerKin says:

      Thanks Jeff. Who would have guessed there was so much to know about magazines. The two I got have the “crappy green” followers, so I’ll have to try and obtain replacements for them.

  22. Heya again peeps,

    Oops dropped a paragraph in there somewhere. I went with direct impingement due to the availability of spare parts and compatibility with the majority of the equipment out there. A gas piston system is a modification intended to reduce fouling, but I have mitigated this by using the dry lube mentioned in the previous comment. If you have a gas piston system you are stuck with something nobody knows how to work on or repair but the maker perhaps and this can leave you high and dry when something does go wrong….and make no mistake, sooner or later something WILL go wrong. Private Murphy is ALWAYS along for the mission.

    GIJeff

  23. Ohio Shawn says:

    You’re going to want high quality mags. The army attributes the majority of rifle failures to bad magazines. As for DI vs Piston, I am piston all the way, but only on a rifle designed for it. I have the Ruger AR and a non AR called he XCR (Google it, xcr robarms) and they are waaaaay more reliable and easy to clean than my previous AR’s (colt and bushmaster).
    Ymmv, but for what it’s worth, it’s going to come down to what you can afford, as the good piston guns are all more expensive than a good DI. Buy lots of good mags and replacement springs and followers. Mags are meant to be used and then disposed of after they show wear. Good mags take longer to show wear. Keep your powder dry.

  24. FarmerKin says:

    Thanks to everyone who commented. I learned a lot and believe I have decided on what to do.

  25. Highland Warrior says:

    Look, there will always be the bigger, newer kid on the block. It all comes down to just how shiny it looks and if it catches your eye. If it does, well then you gotta ask your self, “Self’ just how shiny is that to me!?” The evidence is already there, years worth, through competitions, battles, wars, and experience for the DGI. The evidence is growing for the PD through the same process. So, it all comes down to two things: Time and Money. Shiny has come and gone, so now it’s the nitty gritty. Time; How much time do you have and desire to do in-depth investigation into the new, to see if it meets up to the old? And if you have gone through that, then it’s time to check your wallet. Simply put, the PD starts at a higher baseline. SO unless you have the Money, your Time didn’t matter. If you put in the Time, and decide that it’s worth the Money you have in your wallet, there is only one thing left to do; decide which local weapon establishment you wish to go to to make that well thought out purchase, and my congratulations to you on making your decision. Now pick up some PMAGS, because they are flat out the BEST, load em up and head to the range to get some nice intimate trigger time with your new baby!! Good Luck!!