Fighting Dirty – M.D. Creekmore’s Secret to Winning any Fight

 Fighting Dirty – M.D. Creekmores Secret to Winning any Fight

fight 40391 150 Fighting Dirty – M.D. Creekmores Secret to Winning any FightAfter my recent cross-dressing post, I thought it would be a good idea to take a more hands on approach today, diverging into a topic I’ve not covered before – empty hand and dirty fighting.

I remember my Shotokan instructor telling me, “no matter how good you are or how many trophies you win, on the street in a “real fight” you never fight fair”, good advice and words that, I took to heart.

A “real fight” without referees and judges, calls for a different mindset than a competition between two athletes squaring off in a ring for points. In a real fight anything goes and your very survival may depend on you not playing by the “rules” if you fight to survive you fight dirty.

Strike First

I remember reading an old proverb that said “he who strikes first wins”, if you feel that you’re backed into a corner and the only way out is to fight, then never be afraid to throw the first punch.

Strike without warning, allowing no time for preparation or defense from your adversary. This is called a sucker-punch – if you must fight, it is a powerful weapon, use it without hesitation. An upward palm strike up and under your opponents chin also works nicely and is less likely to damage or brake your hand.

Strike Often

After throwing the first punch don’t just stand there – keep striking until your target is no longer a threat.

Forget all those Chuck Norris movies where he allows his opponents to get back up on their feet after being knocked down. If he goes down (or is still standing), finish the job while he is still in this most vulnerable position after being struck with the sucker-punch.

Be Violent

This one should be obvious. Never fight “nice” be violent, fight like your life depends on it, because it does. You’re not fighting to get the other person to submit or “tapout”. You’re fighting to save you skin.

Bite, gouge the eyes, pull hair, rip at the throat, attack the groin etc. Fight like a crazed madman or woman.

Weapons of Opportunity

Anytime that you’re in a situation where there is a chance of aggression toward you by someone, start looking for anything that could be used as a weapon. These are weapons of opportunity and are usually within arms reach, you just need to think outside the box.

Common items such as a pen, keys, rocks, ash trays or even a rolled up magazine can be used as effective weapons to attack vulnerable parts of the body.

Use A Distraction

Humans naturally protect their eyes; most will flinch, cover or even close them as a protective measure against perceived danger. We can use this to our advantage.

Throwing anything toward the eyes will move your opponent off guard and into a vulnerable position allowing you opportunity for an effective attack.

Have you even been in a fight? What happened? What did you learn?

Comments

  1. In my younger days when I had to be cautious around any man I didn’t know very well, I found that a quick rabbit punch to groin would make a man let go real quick and I could just walk away while he was gasping and moaning in a fetal position on the ground. Didn’t have to do this very often, but it was quite effective.

  2. I grew up around all male cousins it was a no bars hold when it came to fighting and wrestling. Even though I was a girl they wanted me tough, should I encounter a situation I would at least know how to take care of myself. It also gives you a different persona, it must show as I never had to beat the tar out of anyone(thank goodness)just my coz’s.
    My dad(stepfather)believed if you were challenged, you used what ever was available. As you stated-rocks, dad used ashtrays,bottles (glass),sturdy limbs as the other person was going to kick your backside by any means necessary. No wonder I am so pigheaded in my later life, it all comes down to training and attitude.

  3. Buuurr in Ohio says:

    As someone who did a lot of self defense/rape prevention classes (both learning and later teaching). A few words. Soft to hard. Hard to soft. Meaning?

    Soft to hard: Hands held with fingers very loose and somewhat bent flicked in a stabbing motion at someone’s eyes (you are aiming for the bridge of the nose. Your natural finger spacing as God created you will correct the aim. Try it out. Hold your hand loose and fingers a little bent and touch your nose with your middle finger and push. What do your other fingers do?) are incredibly fast if you practice the movement enough. Even if you do not connect forcefully or even at all the attacker will almost always flinch. Use this.

    Hard to soft: This one is much easier and many ladies know it perfectly (at least the ones I went to class with did). The top of the arch of your foot to the sack of a man no matter his age. My sensei would ask the men in the class a great question. He demonstrated a few times as well. “How tough are you?” Always some young, gung-ho fool would say, “I’m pretty tough. I can handle myself.” Once it was me. He asked how fast I was. I said, “Way faster then my friends – that’s for sure.” He told me where he was going to hit me. I knew it was in the balls. I knew he was going to do a front kick that swept up. Just like we always did. I knew the safest procedure. Step out of the way with a hand coming down the inside of the thigh just in case the turning away wasn’t fast enough. Nope! Snap! Flick! Vomiting. He did all the required movements for the kick but left out putting any strength into it. He just snapped his leg like it was weightless and let his toes and arch graze me like a cracked whip. Dropped me. Most people would have put intention into the kick and force behind it. It isn’t really needed for that area. So take advantage. “His answer to how tough we were was how well our junk held up to a strike. Which wasn’t tough at all.

    The above are basically the start and most likely end to a very brutal fight for whoever strikes first. Nothing is for sure but some things are an easy bet.

    To add to it a little I would like to point out how I fight and the difference between dirty fighting and what you see on TV. I don’t recommend anyone take it for fact or even use anything I would. I do recommend that anyone should get some good, fun self defense training.

    My right hook? Not a closed fist tight and wanting to take a persons head off. My right hook is an open palm held loose and aiming to slap you on the ear or just behind it. Connecting with the ear directly with a cupped palm creates an air bubble which can easily shatter an eardrum. A poor cupping (creating a bad seal) allows the palm to hit, flatten out and ultimately transfer its energy into a major nerve center where the ear lobe connects to the head. This will rock you. You will stumble. You can also do the same thing only turn your palm face up. Right hand, palm up, swinging to the left side of the head aiming for the ear. This connection will likely cause that wonderful nub of bone on the blade edge of your palm to hit a major connective tendon that holds your head up. If it hard enough you will cause the person to have a wicked cramp, kink or straight failure of that part of their body for a time.

    My jab? Fingers. Always fingers. Loose and snapped out fast and without thought.

    My uppercut? Hand shaped like a blade arching into one’s junk. It’s a shorter distance to travel. Connects much easier. And often has the exact same result. A quick roll of the shoulder to gain momentum in close. A snap of the wrist. Fingers stiff. Distracted person.

    My straight punch? The standard straight punch. Only I aim for the throat. Or center of the chest.

    • I did not see this post yesterday…..It’s a great one.
      Egads….The open cup handed slap to the ear is the worst! It is much harder to deal with than a punch.

    • realism says:

      I call junk on that.
      Most men are very aware how sensitive their junk is and instinctively protect it. Women do exactly the same as a kick to the groin has pretty much the same effect whatever your gender.

      if you want to win you have to learn how to move such that you don’t get hit – one blow is plenty to end the fight for you and many attackers simply won’t feel the namby, pamby slaps and jabs you are going on about.

      Learn arm bars, wrist locks that end in dislocated shoulders, tendon snapping kicks to knee joints and swift, hard blows to kidneys, noses, floating ribs and necks.

      Grab it, break it, drop it and leave. You’ll survive and avoid a criminal record.

      Taijutsu, Ninjutsu, Judo or Aikido.

    • Buuurr,

      Below are a couple of videos that you might like.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vId1v6N0SEU
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUszAyC0HhQ

      Kazushi Sakuraba beating and playing with Royce Gracie
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elmYSNx7aXY

  4. MorePooperThanPrepper says:

    Maybe there should be a brief preface to this article. When can you behave this way?

    If you really believe you are fighting to save your skin – your life, you are likely to case permanent harm to someone: blind, cripple, maim, or kill. In an unavoidable situation, protecting your life or the lives of you family, I will not argue this should not all be done. But, in normal society, know that you will be sued or prosecuted for serious crimes.

    EXPECT to go to prison. Don’t expect that by a miracle a jury will hear that you hit first, kicked a man when he was down, stomped on his neck causing him to be a quadriplegic, and then have that jury set you free. Even post SHTF – hell then you might get a summary hanging.

    Is that a preferable situation to having a loved one raped, or loosing your own life – undeniably yes! But make sure you are prepared to face the consequences. And who knows you might just find a way to diffuse, avoid, or eliminate the possibilities that such situations will come up.

    • MorePooperThanPrepper,

      I’ve been in more than a few knock-down drag-out fights, and I’ve sent several to the emergency room. I’ve also been in jail for aggravated assault (later dropped because it was ruled self-defense). I mind my own business, and don’t start stuff, but if it’s forced on me, I will not pull any punches or “slap fight” because cause I’m afraid of hurting the other guy…

      The last guy I had to “put my hands on” drove up to my place, past my “no trespassing” signs, I was nice and told him that he was trespassing and needed to leave, he starts running his mouth and cursing, so I cork-screw him out his car window by his hair / head and stomp him good. Then I called the sheriff department and they come and take him to jail, for trespassing.

      • Agree with you whole heartedly. I would rather take my chances with an American jury than with a criminal or a drunk/druggie.

      • Good for you MD. Sounds like his mouth wrote a check his ass couldn’t cash.

      • Bwhntr57 says:

        Nice move dude! Now that is what I call justice working for us for a change. These stories are heartwarming.

    • J Stuart says:

      I would go with the M.D. Creekmore doctrine over yours.

      I agree to avoid fights simple to avoid the legal hassles. But, in the event you must fight you should do so with no concern for the other individual since you cannot know what they have in mind for you. I am older so running and hand to hand fighting are becoming less available. I practice using weapons to pick up the slack.

      The best answer is to leave the scene immediately if you win a fight through whatever means you took to do so.

      I stay out of bars, pool halls, and large gatherings. This has reduced my exposure to such things.

  5. That’s the same thing my DH says, never start anything but if you have to, fight dirty and finish the job right once you have….

  6. another word of advice….don’t follow the movies in a gunfight either…don’t unholster your weapon unless you fully intend to use it, and once it is unholstered….use it immediately, don’t let your adversary have the chance to get close enough to you to take it away.

  7. axelsteve says:

    Shai You are the reason why I always conduct myself as a gentleman with woman.Thank God lol!

  8. TN Mommy says:

    Groin strikes are very unreliable, ladies. Men are always expecting this. Learn the fine art of jiu jitsu and you can choke someone out or break limbs before they even knew what happened.

    • Always worked for me – a punch not a kick to the groin — kicks are slow and easy to block. Go with what you know and be prepared to change tactics if the first strike doesn’t work. Not every one has the money or time for martial arts training but most of us women can make a fist and punch.

      • Buuurr in Ohio says:

        It is my opinion that a woman should never be willing to put herself in a situation where she has to fight in close quarters for any period of time with a man. No offense ladies but men generally have more experience fighting. Men generally are much bigger and stronger then women. Men also have a nasty habit of picking on someone much smaller and vulnerable then themselves – usually women.

        As Linda says hit quick and get out. You don’t want to be in the process of chocking out an opponent with your awesome skills just o be kicked in the guts by the lunatics buddy now do you? Yeah, I should have said that too. Men usually rove in packs when they are up to no good.

        • Agree with you — hit and get out. But keep in mind we women can’t always avoid the bad guys — sometimes they bring the “situation” to us like when we are just walking to our parked car in broad daylight at our workplace. I am never one to blame the victim (should have worn less provocative clothes, should not have been drinking in a public place…). While each of us is responsible for using commonsense, I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the bad guys for any trouble they initiate. I am cautious around any man I do not know real well, but I do realize that most men are good guys and not cowardly bullies looking for an easy victim.

          • Buuurr in Ohio says:

            Yup.

          • Linda,
            I might blame the victim in some cases, like they didn’t bring a big enough gun or enough ammunition, LOL.

            • Okay, but my Ruger 357 will spoil the line of the cute dress I wear to a wedding. Might have to make do with the pepper spray that fits in the beaded evening clutch and hope for the best. Just saying. ;-)

            • OP
              Laughing Out Loud

            • Leonard M. Urban says:

              Not Always the best answer, Ohio. A man named George Zimmerman has already discovered what happens when you bring enough gun, without enough training in empty-handed combat, or packing non-lethal force multipliers like a baton, pepper spray (or hornet spray–much BETTER) or a TASER. Personally, I don’t like TASERs, as they’re a one-shot weapon whose reloads cost about $85.00 each. Lethal force doesn’t always fly in all jurisdictions. If you DO end up charged with murder, bear in mind that free lawyers are worth every penny…

              • Leonard,
                I think the thing that George Z. didn’t have enough trainging in were the legal aspects of lethal force and common sense. Stand your ground doesn’t mean that the prudent thing wouldn’t be to walk the other way. Lethal force is the very last alternative when all else fails.

        • Buuurr,
          Women can’t always avoid a situation that has been brought to them; however, payng attention to your surroundings and having good situational awareness can go a long way.

          • Buuurr in Ohio says:

            Yes, I agree. Since this is the second reply that I have gotten that is mistaken I need to ask you folk to re-read what I said. I stated ‘willingly’ put herself in a situation in reference to TNMommy’s statement that a girl should get lessons and stand and fight.

            I did not mean that women are the reason they get attacked. That’s just silly.

        • TN Mommy says:

          Buuurr, if proper technique is used your gut will not be exposed while you are choking out someone’s buddy. I’m guessing that after a super groin strike the buddy will probably tackle you and you’ll get the shit beat out of you, and now you have 2 attackers again instead of just 1.

          • Buuurr in Ohio says:

            What a mature response to an otherwise well meaning bit of advice for the women who are not looking for trouble.

            To wit I have never in my life encountered a women (no matter her training or belt level) that could take on and stop a man of equivalent or much less training. I have eight years of self defense/rape prevention/coping classes which I have both had the privilege to be a part of and later on be a part of the teaching. I worked with women who were raped. Had friends raped. Or were in abusive relationships and wanted out and knew there would be trouble. These classes consisted of my sensei, me and some other well meaning guys who would be kick/punch dummies. There were no men in this class who feared rape. NONE. No men. Just women. Why? Because women get raped. Unless we are talking prison for men.

            Each night we would show the women what it was they were capable of. To the point of tears for many of these women because it was often me or my friends lot to show these ladies what they were truly up against. We are talking full contact, no holds barred fighting. Man on women. No pretending to break an arm and destroy the enemy. But really truly kicking a lady in the guts until she dropped and then forcing her to her back to show her she was done. The goal of this wasn’t to break the ladies but to dose them with reality.

            We showed them what they were capable of. Fast, surprising strikes that allowed the moment of flight to come and safety. You mention a super groin kick thinking that is all it takes to down a guy. In doing so you reveal just how little you know. I spent hours in an ER making sure I could see out of an eye that was scratched and almost popped by a lady who finally had enough of being knocked down and straddled by the guys. She slapped me in the balls and I reacted long enough for her to rake my face with her nails. Her middle finger caught my eye and she bolted out of the dojo as practiced. She beat me. I rolled around swearing in fear that I would forever look like a pirate. I had scratches on my face for two weeks. This was a thirty something lady who weighed 90 pounds soaking wet. Before her I had fought within our dojo dozens of ladies (most with a black belt of some rank or another) and not a one bested me. But the self defense class rocked me for weeks. Twas a great feeling.

            Your thinking that a simple kick in the balls will stop someone is foolish and shows that you actually have read nothing of my post. Good luck on your quest to beat up men though. I hope no other lady out there takes your advice without decades of actually fighting under her belt.

            In the meantime have fun fighting hoards of attackers in ally ways using the deadly art of rolling on the ground and somehow taking on two guys. LOL!

            • axelsteve says:

              I think 2 pieces advace for women and self defense.1 wear sensable shoes.@ when you get in your car lock the door, start it up and go. I have seen so many woman at night enter there car. Wait for some reason .start it up and go. There was plenty of time before getting in the car and leaving to be a victim.

            • Buurrr,
              You are absolutely correct and I would love for you to write an article about the realities of women fighting off an attacker.
              I am not belted in any discipline, I am only interested in self defense.
              Mainly because I worked as a guide and manager in hunting camps and bartended for years because I was able to make a lot of money. A mans wage so to speak. Sometimes I made up to $4000.00 a week with tips from hunters.
              But working in a mans world, with few or no other women. I put my self at risk. I was attacked more than once.
              I was never raped but could have been, if I was not as aggressive as I am. Also, because I had the protection of the 85% of the good guys that were around.
              The main point is…the majority of woman can not come close to fighting off a man who wants to hurt her unless she is trained. She might get lucky, but my daughter will not rely on luck alone.
              I am fortunate enough to have UFC fighters and trainers in my family that I can learn from and spar with. They let me really try to hurt them. I rarely do.
              Once in awhile they give Mom a good whack. That really gets me pissed off.
              How did the gal feel after you almost lost your eye?

              • A gun and some bear spray are great equalizers if you stay ready and know how to use them. I have a small canister of bear spray on the same ring as my car keys and you can bet that spray is in my hand any time I leave a building and head toward my car and I do check what is coming up behind me. I have never had to spray (or shoot) anybody, but I stay ready because the one time I am not ready is probably when I’ll most need self-protection.

                • Linda, the thing is not always will you be able to get that pepper spray or gun. I was just showing my daughter how easy it is to catch someone off guard and put them in a choke hold. In that situation your gun and pepper spray is useless.
                  Your BEST defense is being aware. You may not always be able to avoid that situation but if you are paying attention you can at least see the situation coming.

              • Buuurr in Ohio says:

                The gal actually didn’t talk to me right afterward. She was too ramped up. She didn’t know what to do with herself.

                The whole point of the class was to push the ladies to where they just got so frustrated and fed up that they did finally lash out and act on instinct sprinkled with what we pounded into them over the weeks. She knew she did good. I told her as much and she was very proud of herself. She was also shown that she would not be able to surprise me like that again for quite some time. And that as any good soldier knows fighting and winning that fight with odds against you come with a decent amount of luck.

                You could tell she felt a little upset about it but we would tell the ladies over and over not to worry about anything like that so that they could get what we were there to teach them. Once my face healed up I was free meat again ;)

            • Leonard M. Urban says:

              A more effective way to kick a man in “the toys” is to use the shin, not the knee or instep. You can put maximum power into the kick and it WILL strike the target with great results. Any sharp blow to the throat or side of the neck will also end most attacks. The best way to strike the Adam’s Apple is with the web of the hand (between thumb and forefinger) as you step forward. If you and your assailant are approximately the same height, a hard blow to the side of the neck often stuns if not causes an assailant to faint. This blow can be effected with the edge of the hand or even the edge of the forearm. You can maintain your balance more easily and move more rapidly if you bend your knees slightly, stand on the balls of your feet, keeping your feet about shoulder-width apart. You can “spring” forward or backward or to either side to avoid being struck or grabbed, and spring forward to attack. Be ready to escape as soon as possible. It’s not about winning, it’s about surviving…

    • I second this. The guys who roll around on the ground immediately after getting hit in the groin are either overly sensitive or being drama-queens. Years of wrestling, soccer, jiu-jitsu, and just roughhousing around with friends has taught me that getting hit in the groin hurts, but it’s more of a “I’m gonna go sit down for a few minutes” hurt, not an immediate incapacitation thing. Not only that, but if you want to see a guy’s reaction speed increase drastically, throw something at his groin. I’ve caught balls thrown a little low faster than I realized I could move my hands.

      • TN Mommy says:

        Perfectly said, Willy. Once a groin strike is thrown, there is a very good chance it will miss or not hit as well as you think. Besides, ladies, face reality. A punch to the groin from a chick is not the same thing as getting kneed or punched in the groin from a dude. It won’t incapacitate, it will enrage your attacker, and you will get hurt worse. Choke him out and in 6 seconds he’s done.

        • Buuurr in Ohio says:

          Choke him how? Tell me how you choke out a 6’4″ dude who hits the gym for four hours a day and can run for 5 miles before breaking a sweat? Enlighten me. An arm triangle? Uma Plata? Leg triangle? And all this with maybe two guys to fend off? Who have ambushed a lady on her way to the car in the darkest, most furthest place from help? While her hands are tied up with something? I mean we all carry something somewhere. Sounds like steep odds to me. And some horrendous advice to anyone you love and want to see again in the same condition.

          Or how about this? How is that a woman who if she is American has an average height of 5’3″ is able to even get the leverage on the average American man who has an average height of 5’8″? Add into that that the average American women weighs 164 pounds and the average American man weighs 194 pounds. Considering that the man has a 5 inch height advantage and a 30 pound weight advantage I am left wondering how you are advising women to just ‘choke him out’. In 6 seconds no less.

          Maybe the best advice would be to run until the lady can get some training and give herself at least a chance?

          • Buuurr,
            Check out her husbands response below.
            I consider myself to have long arms at 5’8″. I am very strong. I am in better shape than most of women my age.
            I can not get any of my boys in a chokehold with my arms. I know my oldest could break my arm or pop the elbow joint out just by flexing and only if I was able to keep my grip.
            His neck is as big or bigger than my waist. Shoulder muscles than bulge up into his neck. He is just too big.
            How would I position myself to get a guy that is over 6 ft into a chokehold without making myself vulnerable in the first place?

            • Buuurr in Ohio says:

              I have no idea. I am of the same stature. My sensei couldn’t choke me. He would have to resort to jamming a thumb down my neck for me to tap or pass out. My shoulders stop at my jaw line. lol…

              This is a video of what we basically taught the ladies back in Canada and sparred with each other in class. Just examine how brutally effective it is and how anyone, anyone can learn it in a very short time.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ignz0VLLwA

              • Encourager says:

                I know a dear young woman who fell in love with a Marine and married him. They had a son and another on the way. On his, I think, third tour in sand-land, he stepped on an IED, losing both legs just below the knees and part of his arm.

                He is a remarkable young man and has helped develop Krav Maga for those in wheelchairs or otherwise disabled. I have watched videos of him in action and it amazes me. He never gives up, never.

  9. JP in MT says:

    Even in my younger days, I always felt that if the fight lasted over 30 seconds, I was going to lose. And now it’s worse. Since “flight” is out of “fight or flight” now, if you want it, you will pay. I’m not going to fight fair, use any particular “movie” style. I’m just going to do my best to hurt you very badly, very quickly, so I can just be on my way.

  10. Practice the art of not telegraphing your moves in the mirror. Don’t give any speeches-you may need that air later and it can throw off your concentration-Situational awareness, always keep an eye out for a way to escape if it starts going bad for you.

    When I was a bouncer, we always had the “30-second rule”. It was how long two people could actually engage in real-life hand to hand before it was over. Know your own limitations and how well you can do things 100% for those 30 seconds.

    • Excellent advice.

    • Buuurr in Ohio says:

      Truth, Rick. Our group had a 10 second rule. Usually an average fight in our dojo was fought on the feet for 10 seconds before someone took someone else down. Timed it over and over again. 10 seconds. Hit. Scratch if you have to. And then run. The best defense for someone who wants to get out is to get out.

  11. KR Prepper says:

    I got an odd one.. Don’t punch.. Open hand strikes and hammer fists do equal damage without breaking the hand

  12. This is exactly what I teach my kids, especially my girls. If you are in a fight, assume it is for your life and dont try to be nice. There are certain areas of a persons body that are weak. It doesnt matter how big or strong they are. And if it looks like you are losing, you take as much of them with you as you can.

  13. MD,
    Shotokan eh? Same here, although I was still a teenager in High Scool, but these are lessons you never forget. Being rather small stature (I’m about 5′ 6″) your comment of “An upward palm strike up and under your opponents chin also works nicely and is less likely to damage or brake your hand.” reminded me of how to use this technique against a larger opponent. First step in close, and stand on the opponents foot, or feet, prior to sliding the arm up his chest and executing the palm strike. Since even I can reach higher than 6 feet, you don’t lift the person off the ground, but instead overextend the neck. I think they call it whiplash. Use what you have, and in this case small stature can be a benefit.

  14. Part of what irks me is the moral degradation of society – you’ll see people think only for themselves and not for others, play dirty pool and leave others in the lurch.

    That being said, in a survival situation your morals can get you killed and ‘fighting dirty’ will see you live to fight again another day.

  15. When the discussion of “weapons of opportunity” comes up people will naturally gravitate towards an object they can pick up and use. The most obvious weapon often goes unnoticed…the ground or walls around you. As already pointed out, you are not fighting fair. If your opponent is near the wall slam them into it and continue to do so. It will spare your knuckles and give them a much harder surface to bounce off of. If they are on the ground jump on them and use the same tactic.

  16. Sounds a lot like something TFT trains. Worthwhile I think. Check it out http://www.targetfocustraining.com

  17. Frank in NH says:

    Please by all means practice. Fighting is no different han any other skill. You can be the biggest guy around but if you have never been in a fight how do you know how you will do? The fight or flight response is very strong .

    Know how you will react. When some social deviant is coming at you, finding out you will freeze from fear is not something you want to be a surprise. If this is something you know early you can take steps to be covered by having someone walk you to your car at work Etc. That being said , having a concealed carry that you are intimately comfortable with can be invaluable.

    Not everyone ws meant to be a fighter. Just my humble opinion .

    • TN Mommy says:

      I agree totally with the idea of practice. Once you are comfortable with fighting and defending yourself, you won’t freeze up and will respond without even thinking about it because it has become instinct.

  18. smiledr says:

    Having been a bouncer at over 250 concerts one other great piece of advice is to never fight while intoxicated, you will lose.

  19. MorePooperThanPrepper says:

    Reposting this because it didn’t seem to go through…

    Maybe there should be a brief preface to this article. When can you behave this way?

    If you really believe you are fighting to save your skin – your life, you are likely to case permanent harm to someone: blind, cripple, maim, or kill. In an unavoidable situation, protecting your life or the lives of you family, I will not argue this should not all be done. But, in normal society, know that you will be sued or prosecuted for serious crimes.

    EXPECT to go to prison. Don’t expect that by a miracle a jury will hear that you hit first, kicked a man when he was down, stomped on his neck causing him to be a quadriplegic, and then have that jury set you free. Even post SHTF – hell then you might get a summary hanging.

    Is that a preferable situation to having a loved one raped, or loosing your own life – undeniably yes! But make sure you are prepared to face the consequences. And who knows you might just find a way to diffuse, avoid, or eliminate the possibilities that such situations will come up.

  20. I’m impressed at the image from the Bubishi! As a martial artist, myself, I generally agree with you. There does need to be awareness and assessment training so that you employ an appropriate level of force, up to and including lethal force, without ending up on charges for excessive force. Depending on the laws in your area, that may not be a problem, though–I don’t really have to worry about that, here.

  21. Thanks for bringing this up.. I thought this would be a good topic to cover, and you did.

  22. Great topic MD!
    I can offer advise to the ladies..
    In a SHTF scenario, you WILL have situations where you must protect yourself with your hands. Unless you are locked in a bunker with Secret Service and the Army at your disposable. Count on it.
    You prep to keep your family fed, armed, immunized, medicated. Why not how to defend themselves.

    I have street fought men and women.
    I am the survivor of an armed home invasion.
    Once because I was in “the wrong place” situation.
    Once because I was mistaken for someone else. Another “wrong place”.
    Four times at my work.
    Twice because someone attacked my children.
    Am I aggressive? Yes. When a situation escalates, I am not a victim.
    I am not confused about what to do and will not be threatened with jail, jury or imprisonment in order to make me a sheep. In all these situations, when the police were involved. I was always found innocent and in self defense. I have never been arrested. I do not have a record.
    Some times the police were not involved.
    Some guys don’t like to advertise they got their butt handed to them by a woman.
    If in a confrontation with a woman. You need to take care of your business. You should be able to handle that of you are prepared. They are some of the dirtiest fighters of all, if you aren’t prepared you will lose some gratuitous amounts of hair and make friends with a couple bottles of wine, peroxide, advil, and a hot bath. You can plan on feeling pretty bad about it for awhile.

    We all know that most men are stronger. That is a given. Most men can be hurt, some can not. Some men can be hit with a truck and get up and clean house.
    Most who want to hurt a woman or children are cowards. Those types pray on who they think are weak.
    Though there are some who are all out bad guys and you should use every cell in your being to flee or escape. Practice not being paralyzed by fear.
    Make no mistake, if you stay they are going to hurt you.
    Use your intuition. It has never failed me.
    I know most of you believe that you will behave like a pit bull on crack if someone threatens your children and you believe you “will do whatever it takes” to protect them. I have not doubt you will try, but they have a better chance at survival if you are prepared mentally and physically for a hand to hand fight.
    Another form of insurance.

    Some girls say, “oh, I just couldn’t”. They really mean it. A truer victim was never born.
    My son has a girl friend like that. Women think they can afford that protected femininity in our society and I sincerely hope that holds true until I die.
    I proved her wrong. She is like a 5 ft tall 98 lb spider monkey who kinda freaked us all out when we got her in the gym. It was funny.

    If you haven’t been in a fight in your life. Even you never plan on getting in one. You need to make self defense as part of your preps.

    You really need to spar and understand what it is like to be hit in the head. With the head gear on, it isn’t bad, just shocking. To be hit in the body with gloves is fine. If you have never been punched in the stomach, you must be an only child. You need to experience that too.

    YOU really need to hit and kick a bag, Learn how to kick an attacker and not let him grab your leg to knock you on your butt.
    You should try very hard to stay off the ground until you learn how to grapple and maneuver your body for the advantage.
    You can get self defense courses for a reasonable price. If you have physical issues. Bad knee etc. Don’t use it as an excuse not to go. In a wheel chair? Have someone show you how to use your disability to your advantage.
    The sign above the gym NEVER says: “SELF DEFENSE/MARTIAL ARTS TRAINING FOR ONLY THE YOUNG AND FIT.”
    Also, you never see women being attacked leaving a kick boxing class.

    First of all. Flee if you can, before you need to confront anyone. Just get away.

    I can tell all of you…….. go total bat sh*t crazy. A raving lunatic. Pick up anything you can find as a weapon. But stay out of reach of your attacker if possible.

    Have your husband or male friend grab you from behind and put you in a chokehold to see what a shocking horrible way it is to be restrained. Everyone is different. Try to escape.
    Find a way to turn towards them. Lie, fake a faint, get cute, flirt, bite, shove hard upward with your feet. Shove off from a wall if you are close. Get your face into their neck and if in a real situation start tearing with your teeth. Use your claws, scream, grunt, roar. Laugh hysterically. Curse like sailor or worse. String out every obscenity you can muster. Get the attention of everyone you can.
    Or worse yet. Really freak them out by not making a noise and offer an evil grin.
    Don’t beg, cry like a girl or whimper like a victim unless you are trying to fake them out!

    You will know when you are hurting them when they try to get away from YOU. They may hit you to get you off. Wrap your legs around them and give them another 30 seconds of therapy. Show him that he grabbed for a sheep, a victim, and got a wolverine.
    You can try to fake being knocked out. He will either keep hurting you your give you the opportunity for an attack.
    The groin hit opportunity may or may not present itself. Most guys are very protective of this area.
    Don’t forget a rabbit punch to the adams apple.

    Don’t live in the Normalcy Bias (thanks Worrisome) and think you will never have to defend yourself.

    • Buuurr in Ohio says:

      Great post. Thanks.

      Here is a link with a dude who does pretty much all you describe.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqU8VOXdoYg&feature=player_embedded

      • I watched this video and I have been taught this indeed. I did learn a few new moves and can’t wait for one of the boys to come home so I can practice.

        • Buuurr in Ohio says:

          I love how this guy just throws around knee stomps like no tomorrow. Inside of the thigh and pushing down. Such a great tactic for a lady to know. Bringing the guy down to her level in short order.

      • Buuurr, thanks for the video. It is now on my daughters computer to study and tested.

    • Mama J, I agree 100%. Its funny, I have never had any type of formal training, but starting as a young girl I would have my ‘uncles’ pat me on the head and say “your going to be a pretty thing when you grow up” and without fail, within secends I would be ‘fighting for my life.’ When a 10 year old child can bring down a man who is 3x her size without any formal training you know you are doing something right.

    • Leonard M. Urban says:

      Beautifully stated! Sometimes, in a choke hold, you may find you can reach your attacker’s fingers. The ring finger is the weakest and most easily broken when forced to bend the wrong way. But…a guy with really powerful hands, may have a ring finger that’s stronger that all of yours, so if it doesn’t work right away, don’t waste your soon-to-be-ebbing strength continuing with this strategy.

  23. Have caught some crap for fighting dirty a few times but in the end I was not the one on the ground bleeding and rolling around in pain. Don’t give a crap what people think of me and won’t start anything but sure as hell wont take any either. But the best advice is to just walk away and not even mess with the p.o.s. person in the first place.

    • George,

      Try backing away – never turn your back on a potential attacker.

      • Oh I never did, I always had my eye on them and was in position to defend and or attack if needed. I have few scars from childhood that makes it look like I don’t care about my face, plus a pretty good chin that can take a punch.. although at my age now I really don’t want to test it anymore.

  24. I take karate, but I’m not a black belt yet. I’ve also taken a little taijutsu. The best thing to do in a fight is see it coming and get away before it happens. If you can’t, then here are some tips. Once you have them off you, run away if you can.

    If you’re a woman or a small man and you’re attacked by a big guy, go for the vulnerable spots. Eyes, throat, knees and groin. Foot stomps are also good – if you can rake down their leg with your shoe that can also be good. With eyes, you don’t have to actually blind them, just make them flinch, then do a low technique at the same time. If you cross a little with a face punch, it obscures their vision, and you can then do a lower technique while they can’t see.

    Always keep your non-hitting hand up to protect your head while the other hand is hitting. Women, if you are getting ready to hit someone or you think they might hit your head, you can pretend to play with your hair or earring and that gets your hands up without telegraphing. It’s better in a fight to have boxing arms (protecting head) than karate arms (chest level).

    Remember to breathe. Holding your breath makes you light headed in a fight real fast. Don’t talk or laugh while fighting.

    Keep your kicks low. They’re harder to see low. Van Damme style head kicks will just get your foot grabbed.

    If some guy grabs your wrist, chop their neck, stomp their foot or punch their hand hard. Don’t just pull away from their grasp, that’s what they’re expecting. The thumb is the weakest point of a grasp, if you must try to muscle your way out, go towards the thumb.

    You can use their hair as a handle and throw them – To do this, just pull their head down to one side of your waist or the other and turn your whole body that way. If they are running at you, if you can step aside, catch their momentum and use it to help you throw them so much the better. You can also make someone lose their balance by poking them in the side of the neck up under the jaw and pushing, while pulling on their other arm.

    If someone gets you in a bear hug from behind, kick their knee, stomp their foot, or drop down and grab or punch them in the nuts behind you.

    Women hurt too when hit in the groin. I know, I’ve been kicked in the groin before.

  25. Penny Pincher<
    Every thing you wrote is excellent advise.
    I was punched in the groin and it hurts. Also the boob, really hard. I thought I would die.

  26. TN Mommy says:

    It really saddens me to see so much bad advice being given out to people on proper self defense techniques. In a nutshell, it’s extremely important to train so that you can properly defend yourself in a situation. Don’t rely solely on strikes when the opponent is bigger and stronger than you. If that is all you got, then that’s all you got, but now is the time to think outside the box and get some sort of training on unarmed combat. There is a very high proportion of women who are sexually assaulted in the United States, do you really think they never tried the old groin strike, eye gouge, foot stomp, etc?

    • TN Mommy,
      Don’t be sad. Why don’t you write an article and educate us. There has been no bad advise given here, unless you think someone is going to take every written word to heart. Which they won’t.
      Everyone has their own method of self defense that works for us. You have yours.
      What I have read through all the posts is that everyone should seek training.
      Yes, there are a lot of women who are sexually assaulted. Children too.
      I would consider it a great service to all womankind if you would do a survey on how many actually tried to defend themselves. How they defended themselves, or if they simply cried and submitted.

  27. GoneWithTheWind says:

    The first punch or a sucker punch will usually win the fight, but not always. Fighting hard and fighting dirty will really piss off your opponent. So what you say? Well, unless you are Mike Tyson the odds are you won’t win the fight. Usually the bigger, stronger, more experienced guy will win. Usually if you are a woman or a slightly built man even trained in martial arts you will lose against a stronger street fighter. Expect that if someone starts a fight with you that they have done this before and are good at it. If there are two or more of them you will lose unless you are Bruce Lee. While the advice to sucker punch and keep fighting until the opponent is down and out is good advice the thing that was unsaid is most likely unless you are a street brawler or black belt AND 200 lbs of muscle you will probably lose. So until a punch is thrown your best bet is to try to avoid a fight not start one. Back down, don’t be in dangerous places to begin with, talk, talk, talk your way out of it, stay out of arms reach if possible. Avoid dark areas, choke points alleys and doorways. Don’t let two guys walking towards you pass on both sides of you. After someone passes you on the sidewalk use your peripheral vision to make sure they keep walking. If they turn immediately assume the fight is on. Keep your strong hand/arm unburdened by things you are carrying. Watch for people who are overly friendly or asking questions but are getting too close to you. If you are with someone have a plan. If your “partner” is female the best plan might be that she dial 911 while you try to avoid the confrontation. (Yes I know 911 won’t bring police quick enough to save you but it might deter the bad guy) IF there is a fight your female partner has one main job and that is to make sure if/when you go down the assailant doesn’t kick your brains out and that you have a chance to get up again. That is she has to go in fighting/kicking giving you a chance to recover. Otherwise she should stay out of range so she doesn’t inhibit your movement or become a casuality by accident. If you haven’t fought much and you are not young and strong You might be better off to take out your wallet and throw it on the ground and head the other way. In most street assaults the guy is an opportunist looking for money. If it is a gang banger then they probably just want to mess you up and the wallet won’t help. If it is after 11 PM on a weekend ask yourself what the hell are you doing there?? The best way to avoid the fight is to not be there.

  28. john p foley says:

    having bounce at numerous biker bars and strip clubs I always found 4 places I could end a fight without getting hurt my self break most peoples nose and that much blood stops a fight hit them in the throat and they cant breathe take out one knee or another that stops it and my least favorite kick them in the groin and that stops it right away ive also used the approach of grabbing and squeezing their croch always having a super strong grip helped

  29. Surviving in Ky. says:

    Thanks for the advise M.D. I think more than a few people responding believe there is always a way to back down or avoid a confrontation. Folks, this is not always the case and in some cases will make your opponent believe you are afraid and make things worse. M.D’s advise is sound and something I have used in the past. This after learning a couple of very hard lessons early in life. One technique I have used in the past if know there is no way to avoid a fight is to use my right hand as a distraction. Being a southpaw has its advantages and I will raise my right hand to the opponent and distract them with that while preparing to “sucker punch” them with the left. There truly is no such thing as a fair fight in the real world. The other thing and this is important and that is situational awareness. I truly believe I have avoided certain situations by being aware of my surroundings and not being drawn in by always leaving a way out. Avoid confrontations when possible and when you can’t, defend yourself like there is no tomorrow, because there may not be. Thanks again M.D.

    • Surviving in Ky

      Yep, sometimes backing down or running away isn’t and option (not like I would anyway) and by refusing to fight or strike first they are sealing their own fate.

  30. favorite non firearm : “Spetsnaz” shovel .

    • +10. Someone a friend of mine knows is working on a Soviet e-tool combat handbook translation. He is a Russian e-tool combat expert himself so it should be GREAT.

  31. Portman90201 says:

    It isn’t paranoia to be aware of your own space. Most… almost all of us are unaware of what that space is… or who is in it. At my age.. like JP ala MT… I have come to know that I will most likely have to stand and deal with a threat. I have taken the time to train my ODEE skills into my hard drive. O..bserve, D..etect.. E..gage or E..vade. Wish me well cause like somebody said earlier… Ya best end the fight in the first 20 odd seconds or else your losing.

  32. Donna in MN says:

    I got bat S**t crazy several times when I was attacked by a few thugs backed by street gangs. These type you can’t get away from when 16 or 17 gang members surround you while the attacker hits you. Believe me, I tried to avoid them coming, but they planned the attacks by coming from all directions with weapons, (chains and knives) . In 3 cases, outsiders interveined, broke up the gang and pulled me off the attackers when I got the best of them, but these losers always send someone else out to get you. They lost too but in different ways of using my head instead of my fists.

    When I decide there’s no way out I go in the Red Zone. I fought dirty, did choke holds while I beat them in their faces and eyes. I have never stopped myself in those situations, I was stopped by other people. I don’t know how far I would go if I wasn’t stopped.

  33. I started studying the martial arts in 1966. That makes 47 years. I have been some pretty awful places in my travels and I am still here. For what my opinion is worth I completely agree with every word of your post. The object is to survive, not impress everyone with your fancy moves.. the rat

  34. Always always look for a way out before you attack. Some fights can be talkied away from and some run away from and there is no shame in running from superior odds or talking your way out of an altercation with a madman. My first shotakan instructor brought that point up to more than once with personal experiences where he smoothed his way out of fights that he otherwise could have easily won. Of course once the punches and kicks start flying it’s another matter entirely.

  35. TN Daddy says:

    So my wife TN Mommy was telling me about this and I just had to read it. Let me tell all the women on this site that anyone that tells you to strike first, groin strike or eye gouge first is just setting you up for failure. Typical attackers of women are not out to knock women out. I’m not saying this is the case for all attacks, but for most, women are subdued and controlled, had their way with and then killed. The problem with striking a man first, is this creates a bad situation even worse. What was a situation that had possible escapes has now just escalated in to a fist fight with what could be a bigger stronger opponent. You would have to land one extremely perfect groin strike to really incapacitate an attacker and if you miss, you now just enraged the attacker even more. Same thing goes for eye gouges, throat punches, groin punches, pressure points etc. The other problem with this advice is that during all this striking going on and fighting dirty, you’re going to be exhausting a lot of energy, tiring yourself out. So now you create a fist fight with a bigger stronger opponent and your tiring yourself out. I do hope you have all trained diligently to land that 1 perfect strike, because if you do, this that is all you will be lucky enough to attempt. Has anyone on this site considered the fact that groin strikes and eye gouges will have no effect on an attacker that is on drugs. Lets enrage that type of attacker even more. I’m not going to go into every situation in which a choke can be applied or arm break or simple finger breaks because that would take way to long, and yes the do work on bigger stronger opponents. Both TN Mommy and I train 6 days a week I also train 3 days per week with other groups of people some 145 lbs and some as big as 300+ lbs and I can tell you this, a 300lb attacker will pass out just as fast as a 145 lb attacker. There is always risk trained or not when it comes to a real street fight, but for the women out there please do not make a bad situation worse by striking. For all the guys out there I also would say not to strike but guys will be guys and we will always opt to smash face. Even though I train to break limbs and choke people out a good punch to the face is priceless.

    To the women on this site if you do not have the time to get formal training from a real school. The best piece of advice I can give you is find yourself one dedicated training partner. Your husband a friend or a group of friends and train together. Check out http://www.gracieacademy.com and look into the women empowered program. Everything I have summed up is in there and it will be much more clear to you when the professionals explain it. Good luck and happy training.

    • I appreciate the fact that you and TN Mommy train frequently.

      However all I have gotten from any of your TN posts written here so far is that women should not strike their opponent.
      Vague descriptions of choking, arm and finger brakes doesn’t not help someone who isn’t trained. Even though these techniques are efficient.
      MD’s post is about dirty street fighting. Women especially need to take advantage of all the resources available to them.

      From personal experience I would like to add that I have hurt men badly with strikes and was able to get away. These guys were drunk, high and on whatever. Much bigger than me. I am 5’8″ 150 lbs.
      I have seen some bad a** biker chicks clean house too. Hand to hand with men, They have no fear of being hit hard in the face, stomach and choked. They get back up and beg for more. They carry on the rest of the night with fat bloody lips, noses stuffed full of tissue, and puffed closed eyes.

      Telling women not to defend themselves with strikes is irresponsible, especially coming from a trainer.

      To everyone who is reading this article……..
      You need to train as part of your preps. Especially your wives and kids. If you are not a healthy adult male you are considered vulnerable.
      You should avoid dangerous situations and areas at all costs, especially SHTF.
      If you are cornered or can’t flee, end up losing your weapons, and you do end up in a hand to hand situation. You fight dirty, fight hard, fight for your life using everything you have. If you are hand to hand, pissing off your opponent is the least of your worries.
      Sometimes you must submit to live another day. Use your judgment.
      Train.

      • Buuurr in Ohio says:

        I don’t think there is telling some folk, Mama J. There are camps that think just grappling and holding is the way to win a fight. There are some that think that just strikes win a fight. I call bogus on both because what wins a fight is doing it all when needed and getting out as fast as possible. As I showed you with that surprise defense video this awesome old man snapped, attacked and ran away every time. I didn’t once see him choke anyone out. But as I have stated over and over again. Don’t take advice from here or any other website. Go find a self defense dojo… not a sport or competition dojo but a dojo out there to teach you real life. Good luck folks.

  36. TN Daddy says:

    Mama J I also did refer you to a website where there is more information on the topic. It is obvious you didn’t even look at it. It provides you with more than enough information if you take the time to read it and do some research. The reason our answers are not complete is because we are completely aware that every situation is different and there is no 1 magical answer.

    We are not telling women to not defend themselves we are suggesting that they seek correct training and not rely on eye gouges and groin strikes

    Go to the website I linked. Im not telling you to not defend yourself im leading you to a program that can help you to learn to defend yourself correctly.

    • Buuurr in Ohio says:

      What happens when you can’t get a choke in? What then? You roll around for what? 5? 10 minutes looking for what? Something? Wait for an arm break to work out? What then? I won a full contact tourney with my right shoulder torn out during the second round of my first match up. What then? Break my other arm? Wait another 5 minutes? Monkeys know to punch, Dude. Use it. Its there.

    • Buuurr in Ohio says:

      I checked the site and what I saw in the woman’s empowered video was horrendous. I saw women on the ground trying to grapple with each other. So they are supposed to apply this to a man? What about the scenario that I pitched to your wife? What if there is two? The other guy waits while you cinch your clinch and hopefully dislocate something? Very, very tame from the women’s self defense we taught. I did like the approach to law enforcement. That looked good.

  37. I did indeed looked at it and it is a fine academy. I have heard of it before. Thanks for sharing it.
    We agree whole heartedly that all women should have training.

    However, once again this post is about dirty fighting and no one has claimed that women should only depend on eye gouges or groin strikes.
    You made it clear in your post above:
    “There is always risk trained or not when it comes to a real street fight, but for the women out there please do not make a bad situation worse by striking.”
    That is the sentence that I was referring to.
    It seems to me that if a women is even thinking about the need to strike a man that it is past the point where she can flee without engaging. Then she should everything at her disposal to escape.
    If you are a trainer you are held to a higher standard when it comes to educating woman in self defense. Maybe your wife can do what she claims. Good for her.

  38. TN Daddy says:

    Mama J I almost feel as though you are angry with me and I do hope that is not the case because your well being is honestly at my heart. By no means am I a trainer, I train. I am just passing on the information. If you would like more info I would really refer you the women empowered program again. Buy it if you cant afford it spilt the cost with a friend hell I would play the videos for you over Skype. What I’m telling you is all in there. If you do find yourself in a bad situation and you need to strike what I would say is it better be the strike of a life time and it better knock that person out cause if not all you did was escalate the encounter. I understand what this whole post was about. Just because something was a topic of discussion dosen’t mean that the topic wasn’t just bad information all together. I am sending you to good info that is all nothing more nothing less. Learn from the pros that teach the military and law enforcement. click on the link in my first post.

    • TN Daddy,

      “Just because something was a topic of discussion dosen’t mean that the topic wasn’t just bad information all together.”

      Sorry that you feel that way – but I’ve been-there-and-done that, and I can assure you that “training” in a dojo isn’t the same as being attacked on the street and having to defend yourself. My advice for the ladies, is if attacked by a man is to use a weapon if at all possible.

  39. Speaking of self defense I just seen this video. Even though it is disturbing to watch, I made my daughter watch it and then we talked again on what to do in case.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/beating-caught-homeowner-nanny-cam-article-1.1381703

    • Terrible. I have seen worse. Much worse.
      I don’t know because I wasn’t there. Some people can take a beating and fight back and others are paralyzed by fear.
      You could see that she had her bell rung, but had plenty of opportunity to hurt this guy.
      This guy should be strung up. Freakin coward. Thank goodness he didn’t hurt the babies. He probably got off on beating this lady.
      I wonder what she will do now to keep this from happening again.
      To everyone: What do you have in place to make sure this won’t happen at your house?
      Dogs, secure doors, security alarms, firearms in every room, tasers, knives, pepper spray, a can of whoop ass?

      • Mama J,

        Dogs, secure doors, security alarms, firearms in every room, tasers, knives, pepper spray, a can of whoop ass?

        All of the above… LOL.

  40. If the SHTF so bad that you shouldn’t go out alone, then don’t go out alone. Travel in packs. You may even want to double up in one house, with other family members, if you live in a city, so that you have more people to guard the house or go out together. At that point, it’s not so much about the freedom to move about as you like, and more about your safety.

  41. Survivor says:

    I’ve been sucker punched before. It never turned out well for them. One thing about a big guy is he can take some punishment before he goes down, but that asset comes at a price. A big guy will tire faster than a smaller guy. A little guys best tactic is to hit and bounce out of range praying that big *&^# don’t get ahold of him. A big man’s best tactic is to get ahold of that little &%^#^%*.

    I would absolutely hate to get into a physical fight with my sister. She’s lean, wiry and comes at you screaming like a spider monkey. She bites, claws, kicks, scratches all while climbing you like a fence post. You’ll feel like you done stepped into a gunny sack with a she-panther…you’ll look like it, too!!!

    So, be aggressive ladies!! A guy can’t worry his man berry sack being used for a real ugly wedgy if you’ve got your fingers buried in his eyes and his ear being bit off. The best defense is a great offense.

    Native Americans used to sharpen their fingernails to points before battle so they slash deep gouges into the foreheads of their enemy. The ensuing torrential bloodletting would blind the enemy temporarily.

    • Survivor,
      Buahahahaaaaa! Exactly the point I was trying make.

      “I would absolutely hate to get into a physical fight with my sister. She’s lean, wiry and comes at you screaming like a spider monkey. She bites, claws, kicks, scratches all while climbing you like a fence post. You’ll feel like you done stepped into a gunny sack with a she-panther…you’ll look like it, too!!! ”

      Buahahahahaaaaa! Right on.

  42. TN Daddy says:

    Buuurr – So what your saying is that you don’t think its a good idea for women to practice techniques on how to escape an attacker when then have you on the ground. So when women are assaulted are they standing up or does the lady have them in her guard??? Ladies practice on how to escape when you are on the ground it may save you one day. If there are 2 attackers it doesn’t matter if you are standing or not you are still out numbered so gtf out of there. No matter what I say there will always be what ifs so I wont bother answering those. To your comment about it being more tame its because of energy conservation. Just so you know I fully understand between training and real life combat. I am an Iraq vet who is also an ex corrections officer. Ive been there and done that too.

    The whole objective is maintain good situational awareness. You should never put yourself into a bad situation. If it does happen you always either talk your way out of or run from the fight all together. If the attacker simply wants your wallet give it to them. If those are not options. Keep distance from your attacker and always keep your hips free. If the attacker controls your hips he controls you. If you have a weapon use it, pull out that concealed weapon and draw it as you back away do not draw a weapon close to an attacker unless your motions are concealed or you already have control of them. All we are saying is that there are more effective techniques than eye gouges or groin strikes and these should not be used wildly and should only be used when your success with that attack is certain.

    One more thing to the women out there if I could tell you to learn on move over all moves I would say to learn how to shrimp escape. Look it up learn it there are many variations of it its the scariest position for a woman to be in and there is a simple escape for it. Again just ask yourself this ladies if you are being assaulted are you standing up no …. no you aren’t your on the ground and I bet all of you out there would like to lean how to escape such a bad situation. Im not saying that it is the solve all im saying it is a tool in your belt for you to pull out and use might not fix the problem but there are other tools you can learn to use as well.

    • Buuurr in Ohio says:

      No, you nor your wife have read my posts fully enough to know my stance on anything I have said.

      I will repost a portion of what I had said yesterday to clear it up for you.

      “The above are basically the start and most likely end to a very brutal fight for whoever strikes first. Nothing is for sure but some things are an easy bet.

      To add to it a little I would like to point out how I fight and the difference between dirty fighting and what you see on TV. I don’t recommend anyone take it for fact or even use anything I would. I do recommend that anyone should get some good, fun self defense training.”

      I will post the important part again: “I do recommend that anyone should get some good, fun self defense training”

      You see what I am saying here? You are saying, “So what your saying is that you don’t think its a good idea for women to practice techniques on how to escape an attacker when then have you on the ground”.

      No, no I did not say that at all. I said that aspects from both camps and the use of anything in a self defense scenario that is a gimme you should grab on to. You are the one telling women not to fight back because it will make the man mad. I don’t have any idea how that makes any more sense then resisting them with grappling or ‘choking them out’. Seems narrow minded to me. That’s the issue I have with you and your wife’s posts. Blatant stating that women have to learn to grapple in this style to stay alive and defend themselves.

      Have a re-read. You will find we agree on many things except the statement of not striking. That’s just silly. That and the fact that many women can learn the techniques we taught in days. Days! It takes years to become effective at the type of ground fighting you are talking about. And muscle building and endurance. For the 99.99% of everyone else out there that may find themselves in a self defense situation there are the more simple and everyday effective options.

  43. Encourager says:

    Boy, this post brought back memories! I took a woman’s self defense class at our church. Everything you said, M.D., is what the instructors taught us. “Don’t be nice. Hit to hurt. When they are down, attack.”

    In one of the segments, we were taught what to do if someone forced their way into your car. We were taught how to kick them, bite them, hit them. Good thing those guys had lots of protection on! They kept screaming “Hit me harder! More!! Move it!!” By the time it was my turn, my adrenaline was so pumped up that when the instructor forced his way into the car, I swung my hips around and kicked him so hard he flew out the door and hit a light pole that was a good 10 feet away. I was horrified, and jumped out to help him up. He slammed me to the ground and held me, growling “Never, NEVER tell your attacker you are sorry or ask if they are okay!! And NEVER go help them to their feet!”

    At that point it became real. And I have never forgotten it.

  44. Good post!

    A few things I’ve noticed about most fights: if you let them get close the fight will go to the ground where the guy with better wrestling moves has an advantage. Don’t let this happen.

    If you follow M.D.’s advice and strike first, dirty, and hard, you have the element of surprise and a better chance of winning.

    If they have a knife or gun and you don’t… run. There ain’t no shame in getting away and living to fight another day. (As the saying goes.)

    Don’t fight drunk. You’ll likely get your ass kicked.

    Last – don’t forget this is real life. When you strike there’s a good chance you’re going to hurt the guy badly. In the movies people can shake off a kick to the head, but in real life you’re liable to put him in the hospital – or worse. Don’t forget that aspect of it either.

    I’ve seen fights that would make people sick. I’ve helped break up fights where someone was probably going to die. And I’ve been in fights where a knife came out and I ran like hell.

    If you have the opportunity to not fight… don’t. It’s a good way to get seriously hurt if the other guy is better than you.

    -Jarhead Survivor

  45. M.D. and / or OhioPrepper,,,,which training would you recommend for myself and my Wife,,,we have never had any formal training,,,50 years old, descent shape,,,, should our first training be Krav Maga?

    • Lee Tx.,

      Krav Maga is great if you can find a good instructor – investigate their background because there are a lot of “instructors” with faked credentials. What types of training do they offer in your area?

      • Lee Tx. says:

        M.D. there are several classes in the Austin area,,,,those you suggested and the ones OP suggested he liked,,,,and of course the krav Maga,,,,,I want my Wife and myself to have other options other than only our gun, of course if the attacker has a weapon, or if there are more than one attacker than straight to the gun it will be….

        • Lee,
          As I get older (older than you LOL) and the body doesn’t heal as fast, I would recommend either Aikido or Krav Maga, since with practice they can be very effective, without a lot of general blocking, kicking, striking and bruising. I would recommend however, what MD suggested in researching the background of the instructor, and his teaching style, Dojo discipline, etc. Some Martial Arts Dojos emphasize tournament play and end up being more of a sport. My first Sensei (teacher) did not have us participate in tournaments except some interclub private events. He also did not hand out multi-colored belts (orange, blue, yellow, etc), but stuck to the traditional white, green, brown, and black. Although the extra colors are not necessarily a bad thing, they are generally used either to make money for the instructor (testing fees) or to appease the typical American psyche that needs constant feedback to feel good about themselves.

  46. FreeRangePagan says:

    We’re taught this in my martial arts class. My teacher also says that once you have control of the other person (down and out or far enough away) to run for it once its safe. No point in sticking around for their buddies to show up.

  47. GoneWithTheWind says:

    Unless you are a boxer and your opponent is a boxer any attack that gets past the first punch or two is going to the ground. Either the opponent thinks he is stronger then you and thus can easily win on the ground or you have succeeded in defending yourself by punches or kicks and his best option appears to be to take you down. If this is an assault and not a mutual fight or one that could later be determined to be in some part caused by you, then the best defense in a fight that goes to the ground is a small sharp knife or razor. You must be able to get to it with a free hand and deploy it. If you are in a choke hold you slice him from wrist to elbow. If in a leg scissor go for knee to ankle. Alternatively that buttocks, the hand but stay away from the torso, the inner thigh and face. Go for 1/4″ to 1/2″ deep and he will not only let you go but he will try to get away from you allowing you to get away. The bad news is self defense by knife is not a slam dunk case in court. Hence the need to avoid stabbing him, scarring his face or opening up a major artery (such as in the inner thigh). Don’t believe you can simply cut him and avoid the police, you will have to call them as soon as you are safe. What you tell them is you were attacked and he was trying to kill you and/or you were scared for your life and you were able to get him to let you go only by cutting him. Then say you are too upset to talk anymore about it and ask to speak to a lawyer. The reason you need to call the police and say anything at all is because not calling them makes you look guilty and saying nothing makes his story the only one the police have. Obviously the reason to stop talking is to keep from incriminatiing yourself. The question is do you have a small very sharp knife or razor blade where you can easily reach it while someone is trying to subdue you with a choke hold or sitting on your cheat going Trayvon Martin on you?

  48. TN Daddy says:

    Just as a side note to go along with gone with the wind. Remember it only takes 6 to 8 seconds of pressure on those arteries and you will pass out. So if you are being choked be ready to flex your neck muscles to protect those arteries and tuck your chin. If both hands are free pull down on the arm that is choking you obviously. If not the choice is yours but I would say tuck that chin and get to that weapon fast because the clock will be ticking.

    • Buuurr in Ohio says:

      People naturally tuck their necks to protect that area. It is a God given natural reflex. Are you still on about somehow choking people out when you’ve been jumped in an alley? Or jumped on the way to the car? Or jumped anywhere yet somehow you think they are going to give their backs to a choking out…

  49. TN Daddy says:

    For the women on the site and Buuurr check out this video. Take the time to watch if fully through, some of what I am trying to convey is in there, such as distance management, energy conservation and some chokes and arm locks ( I know Buuurr has been just dying to see how its possible) :)

    This is not TN Mommy and myself in the video Neither one of us are trainers we simply train just to clarify lol. These are two of the top self defense instructors in the world.

    This has to do with the attack on the woman in NJ and of course some of the footage is hard to watch.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BOmH6vkyfQ

    • Buuurr in Ohio says:

      Okay. So I watched your entire video and I think we have solidified why you say punching is a waste. Because these folks are telling you so all day long. With their ‘green zones’ or safe zones if you will.

      The clip showed a lady wantonly throwing herself into the much stronger embrace of the man. Completely throwing herself at his mercy and not even attempting to leave the scene or run to maybe grab a weapon or fire arm. This is terrible. This is the exact thing 99.99% of women want to avoid in a attacked on the street scenario. (You still haven’t answered any of my questions on how the lady gets away or reacts in a guard when there are more then one man by the way. A glaring, deadly failing in this technique.)

      This green zone where she gets in a tight clinch with him is seen in any UFC video. It is what I love. I call this ‘green zone’ the ‘elbow zone’. I love using my elbows and as the bigger guy in a self defense situation I cannot imagine my wife running in to clinch me as I am swinging a quick, pointy, no-give bone into her neck or face. Here is a link to your ‘green zone’. The video starts with a gracie-type of leg guard and the elbows slicing the guys head like cheese. I think the blood says it all about the ‘green zone’. Is it cool if I call it the ‘red zone’? You can watch the whole fight but link two is the one to see.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO8SAmBKLKI

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XePsjrohKXg

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0st2p3IGlg

      I just can’t imagine any woman watching this video or even a woman on the bottom wanting to be in this situation. He has you. It is only a matter of time. Basing a fight on air management and hoping the attacker is out of shape is really, really risky. Also note that I haven’t given you a video that shows the guy on top elbowing like a boss (which they usually do in a clinch) and it being an overwhelming victory. I simply am pointing out that a professional practitioner of that guard is completely ineffective and rolling on the ground doing nothing for 15 minutes. Not attempting to get up. Not attempting to open some distance. Nothing. Yet you think that a smaller guy or lady would fair better…

      I am not telling you how you should fight or what you should do. I just don’t agree with you telling ladies they shouldn’t do what God given instinct tells them to do. Not everyone has all day to roll on the ground playing arm bar with each other. Especially a lady who has just been jumped by one or two guys. Fleet feet and access to a weapon is a life saved or at least having a fighting chance in those instances. For your ideas to work requires a lot of hard work and years and years of practice and training. Most ladies don’t have that time or money and so simple more effective self defense training classes are much more the go for those folk.

      Krav Maga being one of the most deadly and easiest things to learn for the average person is the choice for most law enforcement and military world wide.

      We will just agree to disagree.

      • Buuurr in Ohio,

        A lot of people can’t seem to separate real fighting from sport. In a real fight the guard is the last place anyone wants to be. In a real fight if I’m pulled into the opponents guard, he will quickly find his eyes gouged our, fish-hooked, and nose, ears and jugular ripped off / out and spit on the ground. And what is the guy in the guard going to do if an opponent has any type of edged weapon like a knife, pen, or even a set of keys to jab into Mr. Guards vulnerable areas?

        • Buuurr in Ohio says:

          I have no idea, M.D. This is why I keep on telling people to find a good self defense class… not sport karate or whatnot. There is just no comparison. But, as you said, some people just can’t seem to get past or separate sport and real fight-for-your-life assaults.

        • TN Mommy says:

          There are techniques for defending and disarming an opponent with a knife and gun. But of course you would have to learn about it instead of just making quick judgments. While you are wiggling and squirming around trying to eye gouge your opponent or whatever, struggling for several minutes on end, I can get a man into a triangle choke and he will be unconscious in 6 seconds.

          • TN Mommy says:

            Oh, and I’ve been in real fights. Probably more than both of you. Jiu Jitsu is not just some “sport” any more than firing a weapon is just a “sport.” Of course you would use your firearm if you have access to one, but in the event that you don’t, the quicker you can submit your opponent the less damage will be done to you. Because while you are kicking groins, trying to eye gouge, pulling hair, or whatever, you are giving the attacker the opportunity to strike you back. Close the distance, submit, less damage to you. While it’s good to have opinions are share ideas and knowledge, there is really no point in continuing to argue this.

            All I was trying to do originally was to open women’s eyes to the fact that there are alternatives out there other than just the usual kick in the groin that can ensure much greater probability of surviving when unarmed.

            Everyone keeps bringing up the whole “what if there were two opponents” theory. Just about any form of unarmed combat is going to be difficult against multiple opponents. If you think you can strike and take down two opponents you must be Bruce Lee reincarnated.

            • Buuurr in Ohio says:

              I must be. I have taken down two guys at a time dozens of time in my fighting career. Its called getting a belt where I learned. But it good you finally agree to disagree. Back to your head in the sand. K? Thanks!

              • TN Daddy says:

                They must have had no training lol. Belt where I learned? Now go and look up the colors of a ranking system and then look up a school name and put the correct statement together. Something like , “Its called being awarded my black belt, brown belt etc under so and so.” Or ” I trained at.” Did you learn or train ?? you don’t learn a martial art you train in a martial art. These are just common statements among those that actually train or are awarded belts. So I doubt you have a belt in anything now. I could be wrong but if so its probably low level. By the way im waiting for my last statement to be posted about your videos. Stay tuned.

                • Buuurr in Ohio says:

                  You can stay tuned all you want. I have already stated that we will agree to disagree.

      • TN Daddy says:

        We can agree to disagree that is fine by me. Just a few things I would like to point out.

        1 The video you linked is of 2 professional fighters training daily on how to pass guard to land blows. The average person would not have the cardio to carry on the pace these 2 did for as long as they did, or even know how to defend all the submission attempts or strikes. You have to remember they both lasted as long as they did because they both trained to counter each others techniques. Should I search you tube to find grapplers beating strikers? Ill pass there are enough out there.

        2 Who is talking about separating real life from sport I am not the one that linked an MMA fight where 2 trained professionals are competing in a human chess match.

        3 If you want to get technical and break this fight down in the beginning of the fight they were both standing up and both ended up on the ground just like in real life where I would have to say in my opinion at least 80 percent of real fights end up. The grappler could have easily dislocated the shoulder of his opponent with his first omaplata attempt. The average person walking around the streets does not no how to defend this. The same can be said however for the superior striker as well and I am aware of this.

        4 I did say I would not go into detail about how to escape once in the guard. Talking technique in black and white will only lead to more what ifs. Since this is the most common position a woman would be placed in when being assaulted by a man, it would probably be a good thing to learn how to escape it.

        5 Krav Maga is a great art and I have nothing against it. One thing to remember is that this art is mostly a stand up art. Disarming opponents with quick hands, kicks, and joint lock. This art takes just as much time to master as grappling does. Building hand eye coordination along with speed and power. Just learning how to generate power with punches and kicks alone takes practice. Any person can throw a punch or kick but that doesn’t mean any punch or kick has the ability to end the fight.

        6 The Army combatives course is based on many different styles of combat not just Krav Maga. You would be surprised to know that the USAF holds seminars with the Gracie family teaching women empowered for a reason. Also most law enforcement train Gracie Survival Tactics.
        http://www.gracieacademy.com/military.asp

        http://www.gracieacademy.com/news/air-force-empowerment-the-gracie-way.asp

        Lastly I would just like to say that training in both a stand up art and grappling art are both great ideas. To focus on just one would not be the best thing to do. Learning to grapple with out learning how to bang is bad (fights always start on the feet). Learning to strike without learning what to do on the ground is also bad (if you can get back to your feet your strikes are limited and you might not have the chance to get back to your feet.

        Franko…. I love this advice :D

        I have to go its actually training time for me :) Ill be sure to watch them dang elbows!!!!

        • Buuurr in Ohio says:

          “Lastly I would just like to say that training in both a stand up art and grappling art are both great ideas. ”

          Yep… something I have said quite a few times now and have been told by you and your wife that it is a waste of time to strike as a lady… odd… but back to agreeing to disagree.

          • TN Daddy says:

            I have said this many times as well. We never said it was a waste of time to strike as a lady. What we have been saying is not to ENTER INTO A STRIKING COMPETION WITH A MAN IF IT HAS NOT REACHED THAT LEVEL YET. We never said a quick distraction strike with full possibility of escape is not encouraged. But if you can not escape and you haven’t been hit yet don’t bring it to that level. The chances of a retaliatory strike from the man are much higher now.

        • Buuurr in Ohio says:

          I should add that you seem to think that I am all about standing up and fighting. It is an annoying characteristic of both you and your wife’s inability to fully read and understand a post that really does not encourage me to write you any further. That and you seem to be getting mad… You seem to be trying to put the specter of Jackie Chan or Bruce Lee type of fighting into what we trained the ladies to do at our dojo.

          Have a read of something that I wrote days ago… as I said yesterday. I think that if we were having a sit down talk you would agree with most things I am saying. But, again, I will point out that you have a real issue with comprehension. Here is what I wrote…

          “was scratched and almost popped by a lady who finally had enough of being knocked down and straddled by the guys. She slapped me in the balls and I reacted long enough for her to rake my face with her nails. Her middle finger caught my eye and she bolted out of the dojo as practiced.”

          Let’s break it down together because I have really explained things to you very well and thus far you have the wrong impression of what I am saying.

          First off she did try and protect herself and fended with her feet. Second she did that because she was? Yes! You’ve got it! She was about to be straddled! I got around her leg and grabbed the other and on I went. Then she was straddled! I was on top of her! She was attempting to put me in a guard. She got about halfway into it as I tried to sit up and choke her with both my hands as the usual attacker would do. I didn’t really have a good hold on her because she was squirrely to say the least. She saw an opportunity and punted me in the dick. Just a little flick and scrap of her foot but enough. I flinched. She raked her hand down my face and pushed me to the side and ran out the door.

          Now. You go ahead and read that and get back to me. Or we can continue to agree to disagree and you can continue to try and put me in a camp of sorts and try and insult my ‘kung fu’. lol

          • TN Daddy says:

            Kung Fu lol great art but I will show you what happens to Kung Fu when they go to the ground.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQXlg7DksvY

            As far as the description you painted about this right here.

            “You’ve got it! She was about to be straddled! I got around her leg and grabbed the other and on I went. Then she was straddled! I was on top of her! She was attempting to put me in a guard. She got about halfway into it as I tried to sit up and choke her with both my hands as the usual attacker would do. I didn’t really have a good hold on her because she was squirrely to say the least. She saw an opportunity and punted me in the dick. Just a little flick and scrap of her foot but enough. I flinched. She raked her hand down my face and pushed me to the side and ran out the door.”

            Had she known the trap and roll escape she wouldn’t have wasted so much energy being squirrely and rely on punting you in the junk and claw at your face to get away. Those are not reliable techniques. She could have easily trap and rolled you or shrimped out to established her dominant position and then and only then when she was on top and had a full opportunity of escape, junk punch and run away. So again the technique you were taught was unreliable in a real situation, not to say it would not work because it can possibly. It is just not reliable. I suppose this was taught to her from her kung fu instructor. Yes lets learn ground work from a stand up art. :P

          • TN Daddy says:

            Just to let you know. I am not mad at you at all lol I have these conversations with people all the time not over the internet though, my wife just happened to tell me about this so I read it. I do think that having a sit down conversation, we would agree on most things. The only thing we don’t agree with is the stance on women striking with men if it hasn’t reached that point yet. Believe it or not both me and my wife train striking as well. We just choose when to use it.

            • Buuurr in Ohio says:

              Alright. SO we are reaching a sensible conversation here. While I do disagree with the not striking right away stance you have I will tell you why. Our self defense class always taught target of opportunity. No waiting. No hesitation.

              Also I need to point out something. I didn’t practice Kung Fu. I was merely laughing at some insults because it was a big thing in 70’s Asian fighting movies for one person to be upset because another made fun of their kung fu.

              Our rape class used techniques from Chinese boxing (an art that was adopted because of its emphasis on energy and strength of will over the physical).

              Kenpo Karate (a form which uses rapid fast, strikes to overwhelm an opponent using locks and throws once they are subdued or an opening comes using those strikes. Also known as Kenpo Jujitsu).

              Shorin Ryu Karate (an art that uses virtually no straight punching. All circles and weaving of the hand. It flows seamlessly with Kenpo and Chinese boxing.)

              Judo (which we learned for knowing how to fall or be thrown and land with as little harm to ourselves as possible.

              Lastly we practiced a decent amount of Gracie Jujitsu and would have yearly (or so depending on the number) tests, or belt awards and tourneys having Professor Pedro Sauer and some other guys give out awards ( I think his name was Pedro I can’t remember. His last name was for sure Sauer because I thought he should have been named Sig. He was from Brazil).

              We did do many trap and roll escapes but sometimes when you are in the heat of a fight the simplest, most base of instincts are what win out. And, as I have said many times we taught women who didn’t want to become black belts or anything like that. They just didn’t want to be victims and wanted to learn as soon as possible some effective techniques to help them out of a bad situation. Our woman’s self defense class was based off that quick and sudden start to an attack and flowing right on with its ferocity into a better situation for the lady. Whether that came from kicking, punching, pinching, choking, biting, gouging, scratching, tripping, locks, or simple screaming like a lunatic we did it.

              I get what it is you are trying to say about not bringing the fight to the next level for a woman if it is not needed. We simply did not take that chance. That and barring that most people would have trouble staying calm and doing their thing in that situation. It is much more natural and base to go all out and right along with the racket you find yourself in. But we can agree to disagree.

              Our standard classes the rest of the week concentrated equally on kickboxing, pressure points, locks and grappling.

              • TN Daddy says:

                Yes his name is Pedro Sauer and he is one on the best grapplers in the world today.

                As for the women not wanting to become black belts. You don’t need to be a black belt to learn the trap and roll. In the Gracie self defense system for women, the trap and roll escape is the second technique you learn. 2nd or 3rd I cant remember for sure but anyway, their self defense system for women is based on escape. Trap and rolls, shrimp escapes, elbow escapes all that good stuff. Things to help women learn to calm down in the heat of the moment and have a technique to get them back to their feet. It does not take years of training to go through and consists of I believe 15 of the most effective techniques to counter real life situations that women may encounter. Yes there are some chokes and arm locks in there. But by no means is this a black belt level self defense system. We do teach to eye gouge, we do teach to groin strike, we do teach what is called a super slap ( this is a slap palm to ear canal) but those are only used in this self defense system when your hips are free and are not being controlled in any other way. Wrist releases are in there as well. There are other techniques covered to break free of holds such as framing. Bear hug escapes as well are covered in there. There are weapon defense techniques coverd, such as a knife to your throat when mounted or in guard (these are breaking / disarming techniques). So the strikes come after the control technique is executed. Hips free strike distraction or connection and run away. It is a simple difference in training styles and concepts that we will just not agree on. Both concepts have their holes in each others eyes and that is fine with me. Take it for what its worth but saying that chokes and breaks are not realistic in a real life situation is just not true. If you have been training in these systems of self defense you would know exactly how devastating they can be. Its just an undeniable fact. In fact it all boils down to this actually.

                You believe you should use eye gouges, groin strikes, biting etc when controlled. (for women)

                I believe escape techniques followed by a strike when controlled. (for women)

                That is it virtually the entire debate in a nutshell.

                Oh and of course the chokes and breaks but I do believe that you understand how devastating they can be. But that is just a small part of the overall picture.

                So do we both agree that a trap and roll or shrimp escape is worth 10 minuets of practice a week to at least have those 2 tools in their pockets? Don’t tell women not to learn to grapple its a huge part of what women face daily. Learn to escape use your lamp use your knife use your tv. Just don’t be controlled while your doing it and GTFO once you connect is all I say that’s it lol.

                I don’t know how logical this is going to sound but im posting it anyway my 2yo and 3yo want to go play spider girl and crazy horse :D 2 games to get them started in their jiu jitsu careers :D

                • Buuurr in Ohio says:

                  Well.. good. We agree. My understanding from the way you were presenting it was that the class was not a self defense class and more run of the mill grappling that most guys train in. We will just have our own approach on the onset of the fight. You – want the women calm and trying to stay in control. Me – I want the woman fighting for her life and having that drug drop of adrenaline to help make that happen. Its all good. Glad we could come to an understanding.

                  As an aside I do know how effective chokes and locks are. But I need to point out that not once was a woman able to effectively use one on me or the other guys. That is why I have the opinion that they shouldn’t be the only or even the first thing a lady looks to. This may not be true for all ladies but it is a safe thing to say that most won’t be able to. I stance is open the distance and truck on out if possible. It is also my stance for myself.

  50. Just carry a bloody knife, as big a one as you can hide, and everytime you need to use a knife, pull it out and use it. Play with it, practice flicking out the blade, hold it in a fighting position and cut up a rope, cut up some boxes. Use it every day and when the day comes and your life is threatened you will whip it out and know exactly what to do. Your attacker will see that are well versed in it’s use as well.

    I always carry one and I don’t give a toss about the laws, I just keep it well hidden.

  51. TN Daddy says:

    Buuurr I do agree with you to some extent about that, but my question to you would be how much do those women actually train these techniques. Its one thing to learn the steps of a submission, but its a whole different thing to build the muscle memory to execute in a real situation. 5 to 10 minutes of training per day is all it really takes to build that memory. Once again these are only used as a last resort.

    http://www.gracieacademy.com/news/female-us-sailor-triangle-chokes-rapist!.asp

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2314631/US-sailor-thwarts-Dubai-bus-driver-rapist-putting-strangehold-thighs-beating-submission.html

    I can assure you this, a woman that does take it seriously and trains is just as effective as a man, and sometimes more since they are usually more flexable. Just depends on the teacher and the desire of the student to learn the techniques. If nothing else learn to escape mount and guard at least.

    • Buuurr in Ohio says:

      I am not disagreeing with you on what you guys teach. I am simply stating that this class, the rape class, was what we offered and this is how we taught it. It worked very well with the ladies and most walked away being very capable of defending themselves. Most were very serious having being abused and raped in the past. In all honesty I think they took the class more serious then any of us guys there. The fact that they overcame the men in the end was proof of that.

  52. hvaczach says:

    In my youth I was in a few scraps usually drunk and thus not all that coordinated. I have since learned after having my ass kicked more than once it is much better to win than lose but best to avoid if possible, I don’t look for trouble but also not afraid. I think the most striking (parden the pun) point in MD’s post is BE VIOLENT. If you are not willing to destroy some ones knee in a fight or to break every finger in there hand than you have no buissness in the fight. If it is life and death, anything goes including pool cues tire irons or what ever else I can grab. As a father my troublesome days are I hope behind me but don’t let the ever smiling, friendly, effort to avoid trouble fool you if I must I do fight dirty.

  53. TN Daddy says:

    I wasn’t saying you were disagreeing. I was just showing you that article and was explaining for anyone else that might be reading :)