Your must read survival blog and prepper website.
Great question, but how do we define necessary?
Definition of NECESSARY
a : of an inevitable nature : inescapable
b (1) : logically unavoidable (2) : that cannot be denied without contradiction
c : determined or produced by the previous condition of things
d : compulsory
: absolutely needed : required
Can never have too much ammo!
Be safe all!
We consider ammo currency. We will continue to buy it until there is none to buy.
You GO man!
need extra for the resistance
I truly believe a revolution is coming, a storm that this country could never imagine. We all need to be ready for civil unrest and I hate to say it civil war, especially if they come after our guns.
interesting name….yeah, i think tptb have no idea just what sleeping giant they have poked….task force pegasus mean anything to you?
If they come for our guns-n-ammo it won’t be a ‘civil’ war.
I dont think many of our leaders know how out of touch they are with many of the people in rural areas and even some people in well populated areas
The more the better… although I, personally, don’t own a gun…
What ARE you waiting for!
Any particular reason? Not being judgmental, just curious.
JP in MT
We need to network. Not many preppers right here in central MT that are “talking” Contact me if you know how.
Never have enough ammo or loading components, for modern or antique weapons.
My favorite dealer has come up with a new tactic for selling rifles, however, due to the ammo shortage.
His shelves are bare of all the popular calibers, so what he’d doing is selling rifles in ‘uncommon calibers’… and ammunition for them.
It may be time to add a new caliber to the arsenal. :\
I said 2000 but I think it’s like the rest of the preps. I have a budget so I have tried to keep a good balance on my preps. I will continue buying as I can especially after Victoria S. scaring the crap out of me with “Lions, Tigers, and Bears.”
Sorry! At least someone else gets to share my nightmares now…
I said 5000 since before my horrible boating accident I owned a 22 rifle for every member of my family and a 30-06.Well 5000 22lr split between 5 rifles is not much. 5000 06 rounds is out of my reach.I had 8000 rounds of 22lr a few years ago.For 1 rifle. That is more like it.
It is my opinion that 2 bullets per deer or large game. First is take down shot then up close for the kill. For small game, up close , one shot, one kill. Snares are preferable for things like squirrels. I believe the
Fewer shots the better.
One thing I am absolutely certain of, you can’t eat bullets and you can’t shoot beans. And can go without water for maybe 3 days. So don’t put all your eggs in one basket.
If I remember correctly there have been time when bullets were currency.
Bottom line make every shot count.
Where’s the option of there’s never enough?
You ask us how much ammo is necessary, tell me how much do all the federal agencies who have just bought BILLIONS of rounds and the NEW AGENCY that the govt just set up to make ammo just for them. I ask you how much is necessary for them?
I currently feel I need 1,000 rounds per caliber stocked up. So for me I want 1,000 X ga shells, 1,000 22s and 1,000 riffle rounds. No handgun.
Not there yet. When I get to 1,000 for each I expect I will feel ok. I will continue to buy what I will be using for practice.
With only $50 / month in the budget for survival purchases (other than what I can accumulate selling stuff on the side). I think I have done a very good job of putting together a reasonable set of survival firearms and ammo in the last year – now I have to work on my “skills”.
I think you have hit on the most important point; stay within your budget. I have a decent budget, but others in my group don’t. I’m into guns and have been for a long time, so what I have is vastly different than theirs.
Some people put guns and ammo way too far in front of other preps. I’ve even met those, mostly they don’t know me well, who thing the only thing they need for preps is a gun and some ammo. (I see those people as donating to my collection in a SHTF situation.)
You just keep doing what you are doing. It works.
Good job Mike!
Well, when you’re being shot at, what, exactly, is “spare” ammo?
Spare is defined as what’s left on the guy who was shooting at you.
or whats left after all your enemies are dead:) resist.
I am thinking that the Feds may have a tiger by the tail. Even in crazy California where Mike Thompson has been holding forums in an effort to put his finger in the air and find out which way the wind is blowing, the push back has been heavily Pro 2nd amendment. People attending an event last night in Santa Rosa were not only vocal but amazingly “aware”. The local Rag, Press Democrat, tried to call the event “sharply” divided and tried to make it seem it was much closer to a 50/50 split were heavily criticized in the remarks……… http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20130110/ARTICLES/130119914/1350?Title=Overflow-Santa-Rosa-crowd-divided-over-guns
Just so ya know, in a conversation I had with Mike Thompson, he is supporting the UN Small Weapons Ban, no matter who talks to him about it. He does not care what his constituents think.
Even the widow of a crazy dude running around in the woods a while back shooting people was pro the 2nd Amendment.
Perhaps it’s time for his constituents to toss his butt to the curb next election.
Ohio, if only that were true. Northern Cali has its own gang of 4 that seem to never fail at election time, this guy, Pelosi, Feinstein and Babs Boxer. I also need to fix the last line in my last paragraph. What I meant to say is the widow of the victim of a crazy dude running around in the woods shooting people. Despite the fact that her husband was shot sniper style by this nutbag and LE spent weeks running around in the woods chasing him, she still sees the 2nd amendment as important. BTW, the crazy dude was taken down in similar sniper fashion by an LE from another county. No trial necessary.
I agree with the widow. I’m the mother of a child who was murdered with a gun. My mantra is ‘It’s not the tool, stupid, it’s the operator!’ Until we address the ‘operator problem’ are we going to put a dent in violent crimes.
Judy, another one, I am so sorry for your loss. Nothing can be said that will comfort you, I understand. Prayers for you ~ only thing that works.
I used to live in Santa rosa. The press democrat has been gun commie for a very long time.
There’s never enough.
I gotta vote for more than 5000 – my AK in “A” mode spits it all out too quick.
I am an avid shooter and collector and in general I have at least 1500 – 2000 rounds of each caliber I collect. I also reload 10 calibers and 4 gauges of shotgun shells and have on hand sufficient bullets, cases, powder and primer to reload all of them at least twice. I shoot a lot so I rotate my ammo. How much is enough? If I only had one or two battle rifles in one caliber then 5,000 to 6,000 rounds would be enough for about a year of practice and backup.
This is a difficult question. My answer would be it depends on which gun you are talking about. You could have 5000 rounds of .22 lr no problem. But you probably don’t need 5000 rounds of 30 06. I would have my food storage in order before buying more than 1500 deer hunting rounds.
What about the Zombie Mutant Deer? 5,000 rounds might not be enough!
That’s what I got my tank for–I plan to run them over, just like I run over rattlesnakes with the lawn mower.
Oh my Bam Bam, you are brave! Hate the damn things!
I have had my eye on an M1117 ASV. 50 cal plus 40mm grenade launcher! Optional 30 cal MG! Parking and Zombies are no longer an issue!
Just a little short of the $14M needed. I wonder if the DOJ will give me a grant? I fall into almost all of the DHS watch categories. Maybe if I say it’s for a “green” project?
If I get one, I’ll have to add categories of ammo to my stocks I currently don’t have.
Deer hunting rounds? Oh yea.
Oh, do you mean total number of rounds (all guns included) or rounds per gun? LOL If the former, I change my vote to 5000+.
Don’t know how to vote, 500 rounds of #4 buck and may be enough for self defense and 500 .223 is no way enough. Now 5000 total may be enough depending on how many weapons you have. For myself I would like to have 500 in #4, another 1500 in #6-7 birdshot for hunting, and at minium 2500 for each rifle and pistol caliber. Now that be way to much for some and way to little for others but this is for shtf self defense survival and not to have around for everyday target paractice.
I would say, not how many weapons, but how many will you be using. A family of four shooters have different requirements than a solo, couple or multiple families.
IMHO, 2,000 rounds of 12Ga is a LOT. A 30cal ammo can holds (boxed) 500 .45acp, 400 .223, or 200 .308.(military packing). It will hold less than 100 12Ga. And if it’s your life, you can shoot roosting birds with a .22.
On the other hand, in some places it may be the only alternative, I.E. Chicago/NYC where a handgun or AR just ain’t gonna happen.
I do a lot of bird hunting here where I am at, dove , quail , turkey and ducks and geese, so 1500 in birdshot is not a lot. Hell when dove season first starts I can go thru two boxes in an afternoon and bring home 3-4 birds till I get back in shape. So in a shtf and I want or NEED to put some birds in the pot I don’t think 1500 shells is all that much.
If it really goes to shit… more is better.
That is per gun right?….lol
I’d say at least 1000 rounds per caliber; after that it depends what you are saving the ammo for. If it’s self defense or hunting over the course of 10-20-30 years after the SHTF and there is no law at all, you might need more. If it is a war & you are anticipating getting into gunfights, you might need more. If it’s that you intend to use the ammo as “money” or barter after the SHTF, you might need more. If you’re just not at all worried and believe that there will be limitless ammo for cheap forever, and you will have your freedom forever, and we’ll never have a war on our soil, then it’s probably – um – overkill to stock more than 1000 rounds per caliber. But nobody knows the future.
Per caliber or per firearm? Per caliber could potentially limit your availability per gun. Just sayin’
Never would I barter with ammo. It could be used against me… and it limits my supply
Necessary for? A day at the range? To keep your skills up for the year? To repel boarders for a day? A SHFT scenario? A TEOTWAWKI scenario?
Three B’s…can’t have too much of any of them.
Beans, Bullets, Band-Aids and Bullion
In a SHTF situation I will be bartering in silver. Make no mistake, silver will always have value. My grandmother on my mothers side lived in Germany during the last days of the Weimar Republic. She told of bartering silver with the local farmers for food and milk, which the farmers gladly accepted. Once the situation stabilized (briefly, since WW2 came soon after) they were very wealthy.
It shouldn’t be a high priority prep, but buy some gold or silver here and there when you have spare cash.
BK in KC,
DH and I believe in a diverse stock for currency. Strawberry preserves at some point in time may be more valuable than gold. And antibiotics…what would you pay for it if one of your kids had an infection?
Like I said, bullion is a low priority prep. Water, food and medicine definitely take priority but I still believe in having precious metals on hand. They have held value through all of recorded human history.
I agree with never having too much since it may one day be used as a form of currency. However, there are many ways in which one might define necessity. How much do you need for hunting? How much do you need to protect and defend yourself, your family and your property? From whom will you be defending and/or protecting yourself? Others? The government? How much do you need for barter and for how long? Will other things become more valuable – like salt and sugar? So many questions.
Salt is near the top of my list. I believe one needs about 300# of salt – 100# of iodized and 200# of non-iodized. You can pick it up at Sam’s for pennies a pound. I would use the non-iodized for curing/preserving meat. Of the 100# of iodized salt, I would keep about 25# for trade/barter.
Sugar is easy – there is an herb that’s much sweeter than sugar and it’s easily grown plus it has theuraputic properties. Svetia – http://healing.about.com/cs/herbaltherapy/a/stevia.htm -
In times past, salt was always currency. Especially in hot climes.
Don’t forget the Roman’s paid some of their soldiers in pepper!
I try to keep no less than 500 rounds per weapon on hand for defensive ammo. It’s not very likely to survive an engagement where I would need more than that.
For large game hunting, 500 would last quite some time. Small game, not so much so I do have a greater stock of .22, 12 and 410 gauge.
One problem most people will not consider is that you truely must rotate your ammunition. Over time primers decay, powder looses its ballistic ability, the brass carodes loosening the crimp on the bullet. I currently vaccum pack my ammunition witha date on it and have considered wax wiping or silicone spraying the ammunition to prevent the brass from caroading. You don’t want a mis-fire and a bullet lodged in the barrel of your weapon. That could make for a crappy experiance if you are firing a semi too quickly. Just because you can pull the trigger as fast as you can doesn’t mean you have too.
I recently shot ammunition from World War 2 and every round shot fine. I’ve also shot .22 lr that was over 15 years old with the same result. I’ve shot cases of 7.62×39 that was made in the 1972 with not one misfire or problem. Just keep it dry and clean and it will outlast your life-time…
Depends on how it was stored. I’ve had you’re experience with WW2 US ammo. German ammo not so good.Could be how it was stored. British Empire cordite that old was useless and dangerous. Again I don’t know how it was stored.
My current case of 7.62 x 39 is from the early 60’s and I’ve never had a misfire or jam or anything.
To be safe though I keep a rechargeable dessicant pack in every ammo case to keep the humidity out.
M.D. a question. We found some 22LR that has decayed. Not sure where it came from, it was in a plastic snack bag and we don’t use those for ammo. How do we dispose of it? There are probably 20 or so rounds.
You can take then to your local police department and let them deal with the disposal of the rounds. Some folks soak them in WD40 for a couple of days them bury in the woods.
M.D. what does the WD40 do?? DH wants to know. Thanks.
It destroys the primers…
The fact is that we don’t know how long ammunition will last because we haven’t had any around long enough to determine that parameter. I’ve shot matches at Camp Perry Ohio (where they hold the National Matches) with .30-06 ammunition from the late ’40’s and early 50’s with not a single misfire on a line of 200 shooters.
If you’re going to practice (and you should), especially the stuff you carry day to day, it should probably be fired and rotated simply because it’s most likely carried in less than optimum conditions.
Long term stuff that’s properly stored is generally considered at infinite life, until we get enough long term data (most likely after all of us are long dead).
I agree completely. I fired some Israeli .308, berdan primed, from 1979 that is just fine, all went off no problem. Looks very good also, no sign of any corrosion at all. Kept in .50 ammo can in a closet. Also I had some .45 reloads from 1982 I sorta forgot about and 100 rds of that went off with no issues. Just keep it stored dry as you noted.
I’ve heard the same thing. From personal experience, you will outlive your ammo’s expiration date. I’ve shot ammo that I know was from the 1920’s because I found the receipt with the gun.
Military ammo is individually sealed so it lasts even longer than civilian ammo. The only stuff I haven’t shot is old (pre 1900) blackpowder rounds. For 2 reason. 1st is that black powder has a way of become unstable. And 2 is: have you seen what that stuff is going for at gun shows? I sell old stuff to collectors and buy 3-10 times as much modern stuff (depends upon what it is).
keep the ammo from excessive heat and moisture it will last damn near forever. I pack desiccants in my metal ammo cans and vacuum seal in the plastic cans.
I too have fired some really old stuff, without a misfire.
Funny thing though, about two years ago my x-boss took his first cpl class. He was saying they told him that ammo must be used within the year it was bought. I told him that was not true, but he did not believe me.
His side arm was a .38 snub…..he was convinced that it would fire a .357 if need be. Again, I said NO WAY!! and had to ask who told him this. HIS CPL INSTRUCTOR so he says, or he just wasn’t listening. But he still doubted me due to the money he spent on the class.
Either way, I actually had to show him that it wouldn’t work. Then I fired an old military round through a modern rifle just to show him what that money he spent was worth.
But what ever, he’s one of those who will get shot with their own pistol anyway.
JP – I ‘inherited’ alot of shotgun shells when my Dad passed. Dad was good about keeping ammo in the dark & cool. But it is probably anwhere from 15-30 years old…do you think it is safe to shoot (lions, tigers and bears) ?? Can the powder become unstable?
I wouldn’t think that it would be a problem. Shotguns are generally low pressure rounds. Black powder is where I worry. But a good quality Remington/Winchester/Mossberg shotgun should not be a problem. Or a single shot like a H&R/NEF.
A doctor friend of mine recently told me how another friend asked him if he was buying gold of if he was buying silver. “Neither, lead.”
Your Doctor friend is a wise man.
I agree with Mam J… wise indeed
I agree with Brad. But it comes down to what you think you will need it for. And how long you think it will have to last. If you’re like me, you’ve been squirreling it away whenever there’s a sale for years. Cause I can’t afford it now. For a riot or SHTF, you probably won’t need thousands of rounds. If you think all you’ll ever get is what you have now, is 10,000 enough? 30,000? And I’m not counting .22RF.
And if you’re planning on doing a lot of reloading, except for hunting you’ll likely be too busy or too tired to do much of it. For an EOTWAWKI event, the best way to store ammo is as loaded ammo. IMHO.
I understand the need to keep a survey question simple, but this is a little too simple. I’m betting most have multiple guns. Probably at least a handgun, 22 rifle and semi-auto in 223 or 308 or similar caliber, all of which need to be fed. Add in other categories like shotguns, larger caliber guns for hunting and backups in case certain things are banned. Also, the number of people you are storing for plays a big part. As such I would suggest that asking how many rounds per person per caliber would have been a better way of phrasing it. I have my opinion on how most people are going to answering this, but that is something to be discussed after the survey.
As others have said,good for trading, bartering, or self defense
I’m glad that everyone agrees that you never have enough, or too much!
I moved recently. I turns out you can have too much ammo. Especially if you live up stairs and don’t have an elevator.
I’m not looking forward to our move. ‘Course that’s why you keep your grandkids around!
I absolutely agree that it is currency! :)
I’ve had several people ask me that question over the years. There really is no solid answer.
I look at it like this; if I couldn’t EVER go to the store and buy any, what amount would I feel comfortable with.
You need to decide something similar. What is your ammo for, what is your usage, why are you putting ammo away?
My “amount” works for me and mine. Because of what I’ve put up over the years, I only buy a few things (usually for a special purpose). I also reload a lot (so I spend more on components than ammo). I have slid through the “shortages” that cause the store shelves to empty (like now) without worry.
Ammo for a trade item? It seems to me that it might come back and get you, so I don’t store it for that. But I have some people I would trade with because I know how their head works. Good people who’s prep money is going to other things.
Kind of depends o a what caliber we’re talking about. Agreeing that ammo is already a good trading stock, I really don’t worry if I have to much.
Too much? Never, unless of course you have to move it without help or an elevator.
I’m thinking that smaller caliber such as .17, .22 lrand .223 would be the best to have, especially the .17 and the .22 LR
and now I’ll finish my thought as my too big fingers are dancing across my keyboard. The smaller calibers are quieter and will kill anything up to a coyote sized critter. Think about that…racoons, possums, rabbits, squirrels, birds, bobcats, coyotes, feral dogs n cats can all go into the pot. Using the small calibers in conjuction with traps is ideal. One shot from close range to the skull of a wild animal that can’t get away from you.
The .223 can take down a deer easily, but is bit noisier. I prefer to use a bow or crossbow for deer or bear and save the .223 for self defense. And remember, the best defense is a great offense!! Just wish my guns and ammo were still with me. Lost them all in that boating accident next week.
I recently acquired a semi-auto rifle that will shoot 22 Shorts up to Long Rifle. So to test it, I loaded it up with 15+ Shorts to check the action. What a hoot! Absolutely no barrel movement. The sound on my end was very small. And out of the 22″ barrel the accuracy was enough that small game is in serious trouble.
Plus if it comes to coyotes, feral animals, etc, that I’m not interested in eating…It may sound mean but, a 22 to the middle makes them die somewhere else. I certainly don’t want a possible rabid animal carcass in my yard.
You had a boating accident last week too Survivor? Must be going around. Lost every one of my firearms, had to swim 3 miles to safety. Darn it all…
Damnedest thing, lost quite a few duck hunting myself.
Agree on some of that Suvivor, I will do most of my “pot fillin” with my pellet guns, slingshot and with crossbow or compound bows. One is if I need to go out to fill the pot so will everyone else and being as silent as possible will be neccessary. Plus pellets are way cheaper and you can recover your arrows sometimes if you miss with the bows. Will save the ammo for as needed purposes because if we are saving it for what we think we will need it for it will be worth way more than you ever payed for it.
I know folks who grind up glass and mix it with hamburger meat as coyote bait. However, it kills anything that eats it in a most gruesome manner. The glass shreds the inside of your guts causing infection and bleeding.
Never been a proponent of baiting of any kind. Too indiscriminate for me. I understand there are those that don’t even want to mention what I said. Still, it’s a decision each of us may have to make.
Inhumane death of pests is not appealing to me. Grd glass and antifreeze are horrible, painful, and a long death. Even rats deserve better than that. And boobytraps are dangerous cause they frequently backfire.
We frequently have bobcats, coyotes, and snakes but we also have mousers and dogs that sometimes wander. Not to mention inquisitive children that slip off on their own.
That being said, there are people who have no experience dealing with pests or are evil and will do things like that. Be ever vigilant.
How much ammo you store should be determined by what sort of threat you are expecting to defend against and your particular circumstances.
Are you living on a relatively isolated farm in the Indiana corn belt, or in a Manhattan high rise? Your needs will differ dramatically.
An emergency that lasts a few days might require a couple of hundred rounds because violence and unrest will probably not have gotten completely out of hand. Only an idiot would risk his life to break in and get your big screen TV if things were expected to be under control in a couple of days.
For those preparing for a “Mad Max World,” one where there is no established law enforcement or legal authority, there is no top end for the amount of ammo to have on hand. Even if you don’t use it, it will become the “coin of the realm” as a new medium of exchange. It has an inherent value all its own, and it can be used to defend your life.
Even then all ammunition is not created equal. A brick of .22 LR (say 550 rounds) has a much reduced defensive capability, but it works well for gathering small game. For 550 rounds of .308, reverse that.
IMHO, it is meaningless to ask how much ammo one should have without defining the type of emergency, the length of the emergency, the location where you live, and the type of ammo involved.
In my experience, emergencies do not announce themselves in advance. All we can do is the best we can with the resources we have at the time. That is the reason why we are preparing.
The emergency is the one you are preparing for. How long is that emergency likely to last? Where do you live? What type of ammo will you need. How much of it will you need?
There are no rules. It is up to each of us to decide what we may need. What do you think will be necessary?
“IMHO, it is meaningless to ask how much ammo one should have without defining the type of emergency, the length of the emergency, the location where you live, and the type of ammo involved.”
No, Omegamann, not really. Why would you try to stock different amounts of ammo for any one particular scenario? Seems to me one needs to prep for the worst case. When you have done that you are ready for any of the others. And then the question makes sense just fine.
I’ve kinda lost track, but I guess I’m probably getting up around 12K or so rounds in 4 calibers (.45, .22, .223, .308) for what I think of as my working guns. Probably another couple K for the guns I have just because I like ‘em. I don’t need to buy more badly enough to fight this latest rush, but when it calms down again I’ll probably add some more if I can get a good price.
Can you ever have too much ammo? I think not. How much does the military have? How about DHS, TSA, FBI, BATFE, IRS, CIA, and all the other alphabet agencies of the gubmint? How much do you need to defend against an oppressive regime?
I watched an FPS Russia video where hes talking about which guns to have in a shtf scenerio. One of em was the ak47 due to its reliability. When show the gun he was shooting at some blocks. The same kind of blocks you would find in a block home. The rounds were penitrating the blocks.
Do we think we’re going to have a fire fight with a group of army guys trying to confiscate our guns? lol
Maybe a guys going to come and rob us? 1 shot from the shotgun will take care of him and most likely just hte sound of the pump action loading up will suffice.
Lets say the police come and want your guns. You think you’re going to have some kinda fire fight?
Everything is a business model folks.
How do we get along on a daily basis fully believing the us is about to collapse or the government is coming to collect your guns. I mean do some of you plan on actually shooting at law officers if they come to take your guns”?
We”re living in an insane world . how do you function while believing we’re for a betterr word doomed.
How do you guys do it and still maintain normal lives. I mean I understand preparing. I live in florida and am prepared for a hurricane and a loss of power and food. Im well defended but You folks are talking about collpase. If you believe this , my honest question is how do you function normally in society.
Thanks in advacne for your thoughts, understanding and help.
Heres the deal. ya’ll are messin my head up. I mean to say I love America. i love my guns , I love my wife and aI love my kids. I love God What im trying to say is i love life. I love the bugs and he birds and the bees . This shit it meessin me up. Now I want you to know Ive been drinkin a bit v but thats when the real you come s out . Now ya need to know ive had to retype this several timess. But wtf are we supposed to do. These government fuks what can I do. I vote they screw me over. each and every time,. My wife makes less now then she did 6 years ago and shes a treacher at teh same job. wtf is that
wtf are we supposesd to do? we can type all kinda shit on here but wtf are we supposed to do. im tired man im tired fuk\
storeing stuff ammoe beans wtf im tired man. the war aint even begun amd im tired. someone talk to me man . im a good american man wtf im lost wtf
Nothing wrong with having doubts and asking yourself those questions. Prepping is just another job (another hat I wear). I’m a child of God, a husband, a father, a friend, a co-worker… We prepare because it’s the right thing to do. I don’t want to be defenceless if someone is coming to hurt me or my family. I don’t want to ever look at my kids and tell them I don’t know when we’ll have our next meal. I have to plan for the worst case scenario and expect that it will never happen and continue to enjoy my family and my jobs.
If you’re tired, take a break, read your Bible, and pray for God to make your path clear and to open your life to His work and His guidance. Remember Noah spent years being ridiculed for his preps; we all know how that turned out.
If you’re feeling weak, lean on the one whose strength never falters. Good luck and I’ll add you to my prayer list.
George, everyone has down days, everyone needs support. You won’t know what you can do until you are facing whatever that is. Concentrate of just doing the very best you can every day. Some folks do well looking at the issues and trying to figure out how best to protect themselves from it, others find it overwhelming, some don’t even see it. Be glad your eyes are open even if it is terrifying. Just do your best.
Things can be depressing of you stay focused on the problem. I perfer to stay focused on possible solutions. Keeps my mind active and my hands moving.
My faith is another thing that keeps me moving forward. I won’t get into it here, but if you want to know more have M.D. forward your email to me and I’d be glad to explain as best I can.
i function quite well actually. btw, fps russia host was found bound to a chair and shot in the head a few days ago……swat, well they “rack and stack”, so hey-diddle-diddle-right-down-the-middle the .308 doth go. they’ve never met real resistance, just a bunch of drug dealers. army, been there done that, know how they plan it, therefore can defeat it. besides, most of them are on our side come first fire, the master sergeant flag out front won’t hurt. prepping is like christmas: makin a list, checkin it twice, findin out who’s gonna be naughty or nice, obama claus is coming to town. ho ho ho ,mf!
The question to me is how many per gun? My higher caliber have fewer than the smaller calibers.
Minimum of 1,000 per caliber and enough reloading for 2-3k each. Still working on that part.
Seems too many are over thinking and possibly under purchasing :-) I know everyone might not have the resources though. Regardless, I keeps it simple and am not worrying about “it depends.” So many scenarios that could play out that if you are vacillating as to how much, you are only preparing for a specific scenario.
I be stacking high because I’m too “stoopid” to know what’s coming. Bought four boxes of 9mm today because I could find it. I just bought my G-19 last week and have about 405 rounds I think. Would be 450 but wife got some range time today and went thru the three mags of the 9mm and a shart load of .22 in the Buckmark. Had about 3000 .22lr and that weapon is only a coupla months in my possession. Wish I had bought 10K but can’t find it. JMO.
I kind of leave it to God and chance. It seems that if I am somewhere and it is around, I drop some in the cart against the day it is needed. Who knows what the future holds but when there are this many people all concerned and alarmed, it would be foolish not to think that there may be some bad days ahead.
Oops. I said 1000, but meant for each type. My son says you can never have enough. The UPS guy groans when he sees a box from him…it is usually ammo.
…that should have been typed ‘for him’ not ‘from him’. Time for a nap.
I’m closing in on 100,000 rounds (including .22lr) And I just had another 400 rounds of .308 delivered today and locked in some pretty sweet priced .223 just as the madness started but its on backorder. I’m still buying every chance I get. Is the Executive Order that Obammy signs taking away the 2nd amendment the start of the next revolution?
per gun or total ?
“Necessary” is entirely relative. For day to day use, probably having a hundred or so rounds on hand is just fine. But if you are expecting trouble, 5000 rounds isn’t enough. And if things go south, then ammo becomes much more precious. I went with 5000, but a better answer would probably be “as much as you can get.”
Isn’t that a little like asking, “How high is up?” It sorta depends on your perspective. I’m comfortable with my numbers, but some might think I don’t have nearly enough while others might think I’m one of those wild-eyed zombies that this administration seems to think makes up the majority of gun owners. You just have to go with what you believe is sufficient for yours and your family’s needs.
Well said , It depends on your beliefs and expectations , do you expect to be in constant combat ? if so , dont worry …….they will eventually kill you before you can use it all . Just sayin . do you expect a ban on ammo ? do you expect a civil war ? we could go on and on , in the end its just like you said , do you have a reasonable amount for what you expect to happen ?
Well, if I balanced out the numbers, by no means will I be correct in doing so for this is only a test of the Survivalist’s Emergency Broadcasting Band, considering that 50% of the nation follows Obama and his nazi clan, which MIGHT work out to—-men…women…children…125,000,000 (million) able to use a gun or several types and styles of guns, let me see, I would need approximately 185,731,472 bullets—-on a nationwide scale—-to defend myself really well—-against all the marauders, thieves, rogues, current gang members, dictators, haters, killers, rapists, Chicago/big city thugs and their wives and children, identity thieves, corrupt bankers and government and police and county officials, druggies, alcoholics, sodomizers and anyone that looks cross-eyed at me. I hope I haven’t left out anyone. Soooo, I would say that the number of ammo should exceed the minimum of 5,000 rounds. Buuuuut, if I were to fend off just my own area of torch, baseball bat and butcher knife carriers, I would need probably 94,000 (thousand) rounds.
As much as I can afford and store. Then supplement with as much reloading supplies as the budget will allow. The handwriting is on the wall, on TV, the WWW and all around us, we are going to reach a snapping point sooner rather than later. Add in additional food and water preparations and getting a ‘newer’ car will have to wait for better times than these.
How much ammo is enough? One more round then you have!
I cant afford to go out and buy everything I think I need at one time. I have balanced my pursuit of the 3 B’s so I have a good start on all my areas of needs. A little of this and that yesterday. A little of this and that this month. A little more of that and this planned for next month.
For ammo, As a minimum my plan is 1000 rounds for each weapon. Hand guns first. Rifles second, shotgun third. When thats accomplished I will slowly double it.
Bought 2 cases (10k rnds) of 22lr at an auction last year and have no plans to add to the 22 total. I expect most will be for the Sig 522 (AR22) or Ruger 10/22). I consider my 1k of .223 is minimal, especially if we end up working together to defend our communities. My real shortage is .40 cal for my Hi-point carbine. My prep money, like many others, has priorities and right now it’s lighting, communications and food base. After I’m comfortable with those, it’s back on top of the list. Handgun ammo is far less on hand but I see the long gun as more important.
My vote is you can’t have enough ammunition. I have over 5,000 rounds of 22 caliber alone. Wish I had more. I’ve also concentrated my weapon choices on common NATO calibers. I don’t think anyone will argue that ammunition will be a commodity in a SHTF scenario.
Depends on the caliber,weapon,it’s use,etc. 200-300 rounds for hunting may be enough per caliber,for practice,sighting in and actual hunting.2000-3000 may be ok for 22LR, to use for hunting,plinking and vermin control.Defensive weopons will require much more for practice and it goes quick when engaging the foe.But in reality too much is never enough.Always better to have more than you need,for trade or to sell, or in case some of your supply is stolen/seized or destroyed.
I don’t know what a limit even should be total number of rounds,certain number of each caliber,a specific amount per gun? I know..how ’bout we just follow the constitution and let the people decide what is right for themselves.
So. who determines how much is enough?
(Notice I did not say how much is too much)
You were talking minimum per gun, right?
This seems a pretty nonsensical poll without some perimeters.
A lot of responses seem to be focusing on how much is enough if you can never get any more – which makes about as much sense as asking, “how much food is enough if you can never replace what you’ve used?” Or how much water is enough?
Obviously, if you are in a situation where there is no way to replenish your stock of whatever you feel you need, and that stock is not perishable, then you store as much as you possibly can and work on possible substitutions for when your supply runs out.
Practically though, I would recommend 500 rounds of shotgun ammo (various configurations), 500 handgun rounds, 1,000 rounds for your main rifle, and 2,000 .22 rimfire rounds. Keeping that much ALWAYS is stock will see you through most any scenario.
The poll served its intended purpose and that is to get folks to think, and consider different possibilities. Plus by making it “nonsensical” left the subject open for comments…
Keeping it ‘nonsensical’ is perfect for this group!
Remember , we may be inadvertently called upon to help arm the resistance if it gets down to that . People like us that are doing this now , may help shape Americas future when those that did not do this , see the light , or are forced to make the painful choice in any civil war and resist .
DING,DING,DING we have a winner! don’t forget extra food, rice n beans will do. maybe some coffee :)
Gotta have coffee ;D
All great tips, Brothers and Sisters. You and you alone know how much is enough. Enough to “get the job done!”
We are not a nation of European socialist wimps. Freedom courses through our very veins.
Let us all call to mind:
our brothers, fathers, uncles, grandfathers and great-grandfathers fought, spilled their blood and died for our Constitution. It and the Holy Bible are our sacred documents. They need to be affirmed. Our 2nd Amendment is close to our hearts.
May all of our ammunition, hopes, aspirations and freedoms be for the American Way–truth and justice! GOD CONTINUE TO KEEP AND BLESS THESE UNITED STATES! So help us GOD!
If not the united states , then a new Confederate states .
I recall reading some years ago that you should have 10,000 rounds for each caliber weapon you have. I believe I read it at standeyo.com, but I could be mistaken.
I don’t think you can have too much, especially nowadays.
I have a question for the Pack: What is the best way to store ammo? I recently purchased some 50 cal. ammo cans. Do I need moisture absorber thingies as well?
Bam Bam, After much research and questions, you do need desiccant packets in the ammo cans. They will tell on the packet how much they cover. I just received some from Amazon. Don’t put O2 obsorbers in there as it is hard on ammo. I believe it has something to do with pulling the oxygen out and the ammo unable to burn when ignited, just what I’ve picked up on. Plan on squirreling mine away soon now that I have the packets. Hope it helps.
Surviving in Ky,
I just ordered some. Thank you.
I like military ammo cans. I don’t have the moisture problem that you guys do so desiccant packs are always good. I personally like the 30 cal ones as they don’t weigh as much as the 50’s when full. Usually I can get 1,000 loose 9mm in a 30 cal and the Federal 5.56×45 has 420 rounds in bandoleers and on stripper clips.
Boxed ammo usually fits best in 50 cal cans. They don’t hold as much then (I think I have 20 boxes of 9mm in one, but they do get heavy.
BamBam; I have a problem with storing “loose” ammo in metal cans. I found that even in the painted can, the metal/metal contact can cause corrosion (?polarity?). (Rare but it does happen). Also, I have weight issues. Even 500 rnds of 9mm is getting to be a load. And again, for me, I rarely have enough of one lot, or at least brand in any bullet without mixing. Due to loading variences I’m reluctant to do that.
The plastic cans on the market seem OK, are lighter and there’s no metal contact. The 50 cal size is more common but I’ve seen 30s.
That’s what I was thinking–I feel safer leaving the ammo in the original box and putting the whole box in the ammo can.
I ordered the 50 cal. military ammo cans. (If you order Federal ammo from Cabelas, they sent you the ammo can for just a few extra bucks.) I kept the ammo in the original boxes.
If the rubber gasket is present and in good shape moisture should not be a problem. A dessicant pack would be a comforting piece of cheap insurance but not really required.
Thanks for the information. I just ordered some dessicant packs–just to be on the safe side.
Hello Pack, The answer depends on what you are comfortable with. Personally, if you have what is referred to as a “battle rifle”, I would not feel good with anything less than 3,000 rounds per rifle. Pistol ammunition is less in that of 2,500 rounds per caliber. Then you have to add in shot gun, rim fire and center fire rifles. I’m still struggling with how much to keep on hand of these type rounds. The fewer different calibers you have, the better off you are in the decision. I enjoy different shooting sports so my decision is made more difficult. I also feel in a collapse situation, ammo will be a great barter item which should not be overlooked by those prepping for such events. The venerable .22 with quickly become indispensable. Currently in my neck of the woods, there is no .22 ammo for sale within 50 miles of my home; I know because I’ve looked. This within 2 weeks of the tragedy in Newtown. Even if you only own a couple of guns, you need to think about this now!! In a collapse it will dissappear even quicker. There are a few .38, .357, .45 acp, 10 mm and .44 mag. Now I will cover what else is gone off of the shelves; 9 mm, .223, .270,
.243. I will definately think about this going forward concerning my preps. I am fortunate I listened to 2 close friends along with those I consider friends in spirit on this site about gun peps over the last 2 years and those are M.D., jarhead 03, riverrider, tinfoilhat and bctruck. I have listened about ammo, training, parts and numerous other areas and have improved my preps. I sincerely thank M.D. and others for their help and pray we come out of the dark days our country is witnessing. God Bless!
During WW2, Both the Polish and Jewish undergrounds found pistols almost useless in the fighting in Warsaw. I suspect that we would all find handguns largely last ditch personal defence. So none of us are likely to need all that much compared to rifle and shotgun. So I’m guessing that 500 rounds per gun plenty. 500 for each hunting rifle (unless it’s also a primary defence weapon.) 500+ for each shotgun. (They are heavy and bulky). 2,000 per for a combat rifle. And (these are my personal opinions) a minimum of 1,000 hand gun/1,000 shotgun/5,000 rifle TOTAL. Even if you only have one of each.
For .22LR, 20,000 rounds is not too much. You should have RF conversions for as many guns as possible. There are many types of small game you can take with it. You can also shoot roosting birds with it. (If you’re starving, F&G rules don’t count). And they’re quiet. And you always need to practice. And if you’re going to barter ammo, .22 is probably best.
You might also consider stocking some common cals such as 30/30 (which is probably still available) for barter.
If you or anyone disagrees, please let me know, and why I’m wrong.
Both the Polish and Jewish undergrounds found pistols almost useless in the fighting in Warsaw.
That was probably true but the situation was entirely different in France a few years later.
I have 1500 rounds of 7.62×39 for 2 rifles – 3 deer rifles with under 100 rounds each one is 30.06 other two are odd ball calibers and about 3500 rounds of .22– 12ga is only shotgun I have and have 100 BB and 25 of buck and slug – then various amounts of other sizes of shot. I know I need to add to all
you can have all the guns and gold in the world but with no ammo you have an expensive club and soon will have no gold. you have tremendous bartering leverage also with ammo. look at ammo shortage now and the SHHTF yet. whats it going to be like if it does?
You might consider popular calibers, even if you don’t use them.
There may be 10,000,000 30/30s out there, as an example.
And their probably still in stock.
I think people are reading to much into the question. My answer was 5000. Why?
.270 100 rds want 200
5.56 2000 rds I’m good
5.45 1750 rds I want another 500 atleast
.30 carbine 300 rds It’s a spare probably want buy anymore.
.22 1100 rds I’m good
12 ga 100nrds 00 and 250 misc. need a few more of both
.50 black powder 75 rds need a few more
As you see I have over 5000 and need probably another thousand.
I checked 1,000 rounds per gun as necessary right now. Another time it would be more, but I don’t expect to take down 1,000 deer and 1,000 enemy/criminals trying to kill me at this time.
Always have more than you are expecting, Mr Murphy and his law will find a way to surprise you!
My neighbor called me first thing this morning and told me Wally World had 100 count 9mm ball Federals in stock and asked me if I wanted any. I told him no. After a while I got to thinking maybe I better stop by and grab a few boxes. I went to the store I usually patronize and they had four boxes left. There was one fellow ahead of me and he asked for one box. After he said that I spoke over his shoulder and told the clerk I would take the other three. The other guy asked if he could have two instead of one and I said, sure. I ended up getting two boxes. After that I went to Academy’s. They had no common ammunition at all, just empty shelves. There were three guys at the gun counter filling out forms for the background checks. The weapons they still had around were sparse. I talked to one of the sales people as I was interested in a Glock 19 or 26. He said there isn’t a Glock for sale in town that he knew of. He said the little bit of ammunition there were getting in went out as fast as they put it on the shelf. After Academy I went to a small gun shop where I had previously done business. They had some weapons in the racks but I heard the salesman tell someone they were mostly consignments. I watched a fellow buy an AK for $1,200.00. My next stop was my favorite Army Surplus store. I didn’t get to see my buddy that owns the place but talked to his right hand man. Seems they swap off setting up at gun shows and this weekend was the owners turn. Anyway, the guy told me he did a show in Kansas last weekend and they had quite a number of law enforcement there. As I understood it, they were on duty and mostly at the entrance. The way he expressed it was more of a show than anything else. There were no problems, just wanted to make their presence known I guess. He said the show was crazy. All four of the places I stopped at today were busy with people looking for ammunition and/or weapons. Thought the Wolf Pack would like an update about what’s going on in the Midwest part of the country.
I’ve never been to a gun show in Kansas that didn’t have LE at the door. They are checking guns go into the building to make sure they are unloaded.
Yes, they always have a few at the door to check the weapons, etc. As I understood the fellow, these were in addition and were physically outside the building entrance? Our area is having a show next weekend and I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Fire Marshall there as I expect it to be crazy with people.
Went by a couple of places today.
The local Bass Pro was completely out of 9 mm, .223, or 22LR but had lots and lots of 30-06, 40 cal and 243. I’m taking that to mean there won’t be many of those around in case I were to be looking for them after SHTF.
I stopped by the local Wal-Mart and they had three boxes of 9 mm, of which they only let me buy two. They did have a few boxes of odd calibers that I’ve never paid any attention to before (25 and etc).
Both places had quite a few boxes of shotgun shells (both shot and slug), Bass Pro had some 28 ga that I’d never noticed before.
Maybe I need to consider picking up another shotgun or two, but then maybe the thought is that nothing will change with shotguns or shotgun ammo.
Just wanted to give anyone interested in the Extreme East Tennessee inventory an idea of what things were looking like.
Kind of off topic, but I’m looking for some advice.
I just bought a Sig Sauer P250 compact in .40S&W. For about $750 I could buy the slide/barrel exchange kits to enable this thing to shoot any common handgun ammo (9mm, .357SIG or .45ACP).
On the one hand, that $750 could add quite a bit of .40S&W to the stockpile.
On the other hand, having one gun that can shoot almost any common handgun round could be incredibly useful after TSHTF.
Kind of torn here. Any advice?
“For about $750 I could buy the slide/barrel exchange kits to enable this thing to shoot any common handgun ammo (9mm, .357SIG or .45ACP)”.
Common now but after TSHTF? Maybe. Maybe not. Are you a betting man?
I figure it this way, IF that ammo is readily available then the firearm that shoots it will also be.
Ron, the way I see it, if you have a 9mm with no ammo and you come across some .45ACP rounds, you still have nothing but a club and some .45 rounds that you can throw at people.
If you have the .45 slide, you can swap it out and use that ammo.
After TSHTF, I doubt any weapon will be readily available. People aren’t going to want to part with them – but they may be willing to part with some of their ammo for a price.
Having said that, I’m torn between stocking up on .40 or getting one or more of the other slides.
As I understand it 40 cal is the most common round used by LEO in the US. I imagine picking the aftermath of a battle there would be more 40 than 45. But I could be wrong. And I hope we never have the need to find out.
FYI. The 40 S&W and the 357 SiG use the same basic brass. The 357 is a necked down 40. You should only need a 357 SiG barrel for your P250 vs. a complete slide assy. Should save you a couple bucks.
That’s another advantage of this thing: the mags hold both .40 & .357 rounds. No need for separate mags. Not sure if other handguns do this – all of my other ones are oddballs.
And I can probably just get a .357 barrel, but with the slide assembly, I can swap calibers in under 30 seconds. Probably never have to do it that fast, but it’s a nice feature. And, at about $250, the slide isn’t terribly expensive compared to buying a whole new gun.
With good HP bullets, I doubt there is much advantage in calibers over 9×19. That said, If you’re concern is ammo supply, what could be more useful than a SIG250. And when they make a 22 conversion?