A Vancouver man was cited Friday for wearing his pistol in a grocery store even though it’s legal to carry a gun in Washington and Oregon.
The incident is part of a growing controversy over what’s called the “Open Carry” law and highlights the debate over people openly wearing firearms in public places.
As to why:
The police officer cited Kirby under the law that says it is wrong to carry a weapon if it “manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.”
What do you think? Is open carry a good idea? Would you do it? Would concealed carry be better for you? Have you done it? What happened?
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{ 39 comments }
Hmmmm…..If they have an open carry law, how can the “officer” cite him? Sounds like a conflict in either the interpretation of the law of there are opposing laws. I think that it would be a good basis for a test case in court.
Here in Idaho, we have open carry law. We carry openly…..period. If the LEO has a problem with it, tough.
Bob
III
IdahoBob,
I am looking to move to Idaho. I have a question. Is there any city in Idaho that you can’t open carry?
Thanks, and thank God for Idaho!!!
Not that I know of. But…..I do not live even close to any city, I live outside a town of 250 folks.
Bob
III
I’m not sure there are many people who are more of proponent of the 2nd Amendment than myself. I have a concealed carry and most of the time I do carry concealed, but sometimes if I am in a sketchy part of town I make sure to make it visible to anyone who might be looking. There are some people who actually have to open carry in my state because you can’t get a concealed carry license until you are 21. I have seen some young men (under 21) carrying pistols on their hips simply because that is the only way they can legally carry in our state. I will admit that when I see someone who is open carrying I immediately try and assess their threat level/mental stability, but I think this is just natural. I think this is more of a cultural norm than anything. We are just not accustomed to seeing people who are not police officers carrying weapons for everyone to see. However, this really shouldn’t make any difference because if someone has a gun and is planning to do something with it, the difference between having it on his hip for everyone to see or hidden under his shirt is inconsequential. I guess my view is that people who open carry are simply exercising their rights and making a bit of a political statement to the “gun haters” that they won’t be controlled. Besides, anything that pisses off anti-gun people can’t be bad.
you do however increase your contact with law enforcement when all those around you seem to report you when in larger cities.
washington state is becoming more and more communist
This is only because many more progressive liberals are fleeing states like California and moving to Washington. The “left” coast of Washington is liberal, while the east side is conservative and middle American.
We have the same problem in Indiana. It is legal to carry openly but I had a cop tell me he was going to arrest me for intimidation. So me being the smart ass I am said so you carry a gun openly to criminally intimidate people.
So it is illegal to do what is legal because of peoples irrational fears.
So what was the outcome of this particular situation you encountered with the cop?
Agree with Idahobob, if it’s legal to open carry, and he wasn’t doing anything to “manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons”, then it would be a good case to sue the karate instructor, the cop, and the city for violating his civil rights.
Most of the commenters on the article were, “I’m pro gun rights, but it’s stupid to open carry”. B.S., if you don’t use your rights, you lose them.
Well said Jack. ” A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost.” A law abiding citizen should be able to carry open or concealed.
I go for concealed carry over open carry because I don’t want the thugs mugging me for my pistol.
I agree. I prefer the element of surprise myself. It’s easier to take the gun from someone who carrying in the open.
When has this ever happened? Thugs are cowards, all predators are. They will look for easy prey, why tackle a griz when there are plenty of mice and sheep about? Weapons retention is as important as marksmanship and should be studied and praticed, for both OC and CC. Most CC’ers print [show or shadow of outline] a lot more than they want to admit. I OC cause I won’t apply for a permit for a right.
Greetings. if carrying in the open is illegal because it can be interpreted as a potential assault then no officer should be allowed to carry in the open. they have assulted people, shot them and threatened them in the past with firearms, therefore, having shown prior behavior patterns that are threatening they should not carry at all. But I am big hearted. I vote for concealed carry. with open carry everyone knows who is packing. with concealed carry they don’t know. which means that us who carry concealed are actually protecting the anti gun fools because they would not know for sure if the person they have picked out to hit is armed or not. maybe we should all carry open so the criminals would know who the anti gun fools are and can rob or murder them instead of the rest of us that are armed. so here a lot of people are un-mugged, un-raped and un-murdered simply because the criminal didn’t feel safe attacking them. they might have been carrying concealed.
Openly carrying a gun says it all – don’t think about it pal, move on & out of sight.
I live in THE wimpiest area of the country, Southern California. If you openly carry a BB gun down your own street, chances are excellent SWAT will cordon off the street & bring in the negotiators. Then I’ll be on the evening news wearing an orange jumpsuit listed as a crazed terrorist. I guess it’s to
e to move …
You know the old joke about the most powerful Martial Art self defense in the world is the art of “Ching-Ching”.
A person of any size stands 20′ from the threat and chambers a
9mm round, hence the “Ching-Ching” sound, points center mass & the threat
is no more.
Guns are the most efficent self defense mechanism in the world. The right to
bear arms is paramount.
Sorry for the typos, the edit feature does not work – at least for me ~
Washington is becoming more and more a socialist state. Especially the west side of the state. However, this law about the open carry of a weapon has been on the books for decades and has been tested in the appeals courts. I wrote about it nearly a year ago, here: http://nairbscorner.blogspot.com/2009/04/open-carry-of-firearms-in-washington.html.
In Washington a person can get a concealed carry permit good for five years with only a background check and payment of a small fee. It is perhaps the least restricted license in the country for concealed carry. With such a simple concealed carry licensing scheme, I personally do not see any reason to take the risk of open carry.
I find it awkward to open carry, but I also don’t like turning my right into a privelidge from the the state,which is what you do when you apply for a permit. You should not be infringed on carrying any way you want.
Open carry is fine. You know the person’s intent. Most people who walk into a convenient store with a gun are looking for the element of surprise with the weapon and are concealing it anyway.
If someone is open carrying, their intent may be to use it in a “needed or required” self defense situation, but rarely to intimidate.
As with Witwct above, I live in NJ and CA and NJ pretty much parallel together. If you are open carrying in NJ, you better be law enforcement, otherwise you are a target for the SWAT team to take down. You need a permit from the state just to own a BB gun here. Oh, and I think sling shots are illegal as well.
Unfortunately, this is another example of the Californication of our once-great society. Other people’s “feelings” are more important than you or your family’s safety.
Liberal Progressive “Political Correctness” and “Social Justice” is becoming the downfall of the Constitution, and our Freedom.
Regarding feelings – You are so right & it’s really ridiculous here in Cali and the liberalism is alive and well in the schools.
I think “Bowling for Columbine” played for 24 months straight in an anti-gun brain washing attempt.
I loathe “Political Correctness”, it only weakens this great nation.
Concealed carry is the way to go for me- element of surprise being top reason. Also, the weapon itself is protected from elements, roving eyes, sticky fingers and inquisitive children.
Still, open carry is fine with me, no reason not to if that’s how you want to do it.
However, sitting in a restaraunt amid a bunch of people, someone with a visible pistol on his belt got a lecture from a police officer at a table not too far away- because the eatery owner asked him to. I sat and watched, elbow about three inches from the concealed nine at my belly. Too many people in this sissified country are afraid of guns because of Brady and SPLC lie campaigns, not seeing the weapons as what they can be as opposed to what they are told they are: criminal tools and anyone carrying one is a criminal intent on causing harm.
Sad state of affairs today. :( I do see a bright side, though- the time is coming when more guns will be visible.
Shy III
i open carry about 90% of the time ,when on base (im active mil)
never when off base
i open carry about 90% of the time when on base (im active mil)
i never open carry when around town
i open carry about 90% of the time when on base (im active mil)
but never when around town
I open carried in Arizona and noticed that even in Tucson the eyes would follow me when I walked into most establishments. I guess the word is startled, and some just couldn’t keep their eyes off of the weapon.
Given a choice, I’d go concealed, but I was only there for a visit so I had to open carry or nothing.
Back in Maryland the left wing zombies will give you a concealed weapons permit if you own a politician or are one. This is another state that will implode from stupidity.
I use both methods for carrying a handgun. Open carry is becoming popular in Michigan and several “meeting” have been conducted in several cities to excersize this right. The police are becoming more educated in open carry as the get togethers go on.
I agree with Witwct, I was born and raised in southern California and I have watched people, become ever more stupid, more dependant on others, more dependant on Law enforcement, the government and So on. A lot of people here in the city can do nothing for them selves, most of my neighbors are weak, unwilling, possibly Lazy or just stupid? My generation is full of useless people, I.T. people, non-profit workers and graphic designers, how are those skills going to translate into anything.
The Brain washed sheeple fear open carry, I wish I could get a concealed carry, but that will never happen. I don’t like being the first target of a desperate criminal, a concealed gun makes me another face in the crowd that can counter act, open carry always puts me on the defensive, because I now have a Target on my back. I love the Idea of open carry and I would love to get busted doing it and take the case to court, but the reality of life here in Socal is rather disheartening.
My husband works at a job where he hears the scanner all the time. He has been keeping track of routine traffic stops where the license is checked and when it comes back that the person is concealed carry. He said right now it is averaging about 2/3 carry to 1/3 who do not. I know that is not an official statistic, but I thought it was interesting. When we took the class for our CHL the gentleman teaching said in the past it was a good idea to carry, and now it is a must!!
Oh to Phil in LA___ If I were you I’d move. It maybe easier said then done. but California takes peoples rights away left and right. Has it decreased crime any????
I’ve never seen any open-carriers in Ohio. It would be a swat-team scene,I’m sure. My husband and I both have concealed carry permits. We had to take a twelve hour course, do some range shooting tests, pass a written test,etc. It wasn’t bad. The permits are good for five years. We cannot carry in government owned places. No parks,post offices,schools,banks,places that serve alcohol,or city owned buildings,etc. It can get sort of technical, and you absolutely MUST ALWAYS remember that if you get pulled over by a cop, that you must keep your hands on the wheel and the first words out of your mouth must be that you have a concealed carry permit. OR THEY CAN ARREST YOU, AND YOU’LL GET PRISON TIME. So, you’d better never forget.
I myself carry most of the time. After all, you never know what could happen.
I remember as a kid, travelling through Wyoming, I think, we saw a man in a small corner store, who had a gun on his hip. I had never seen anyone open carrying, and it somewhat scared me until I found out that that was legal there. I think if more people did it, that the public would get more used to it. I myself prefer concealed.
Barbara…Yes Ohio does have it’s problems with ccw, but BFA is working hard to improve our laws. You may have not seen any open-carriers but before HB12 was signed into law there were many, many open carry walks carried out throughout the state. I personally organized one in Manchester, another one was held in Cincinnati, another one was held around the state house, another one was held around the Governor’s Mansion (which I attended). The laws do need changed and we can only do it with the help of every citizen that is concerned with the 2A and our constitutional rights. I have and still do on occasision open carry…I’ve never had a word said to me, and most folks down here really don’t pay any attention to it. Guess it’s just a way of life in Appalachia Ohio. Check out our web site, get involved, get active… http://www.buckeyefirearms.org//
As long as it’s legal, I think open carry is a great idea. And realistically, OC should be legal in all 50 states. Problem is, our 2nd amendment rights have been diluted in most of the 50 states, to one degree or another.
I know that some will be against OC. They will see it as “grandstanding” or an attempt at “attention grabing” or whatever. But there are practical reasons for do so. I’m not going to list them here. If you’re really interested, I suggest you visit opencarry.org.
Hi Rick, I’ll check out the site. We usually try to get involved with groups that try to keep our rights. We live up north, and I have been here all my life, and NEVER seen anyone open carry here. The police and sheriff’s offices both have told me that you would be arrested if you tried it. I even asked them if someone could have a gun rack in their truck’s rear window and carry a loaded shotgun or rifle, and they said absolutely not, even if you have a concealed carry permit, it’s not legal here.
My brother got arrested a few years back for transporting some guns he forgot to unload. Spent years in prison for it.
Needless to say, they aren’t too nice here about it.
Rick,do you live where the coal miners are having a hard time getting permits to mine? If so, have you signed the petition for that? I just found the site yesterday, we signed the petition and I emailed it to friends,too.Said it was Appalachia.. If the govt can successfully control our natural resources,we are TOAST. We NEED that coal up here. Electric.Steel mills. We even help heat our house with it. The site was called FacesOfCoal, I think.
God bless Texas! I open carry here all the time and no one gives a damn.
Open Carry is NOT legal in Texas see the map above. Starting July 29, 2010 concealed carry Will be no longer be by permit in AZ. Anyone that can legally carry can concealed carry most places.
Anonymous is not only a month late to this party he’s wrong. Know the laws for your state, or better yet call your congess critter and have a voice in what they are.
s
I’d be careful if I were you. You’re likely to find out just how illegal open carry is in Texas.
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