Questions and answers with The Wolf Pack : Gold and Silver Who Will Want It?

What are your thoughts on gold and silver? I see that you do believe in collecting junk silver, so I was just wondering. In my experience, I am observing that US citizens dont really view gold and silver as money as much as Ron Paul and others would like them too.

I have lived in Europe and South America and in other parts of the world it does make sense to collect gold and silver because if you dont have cash and you pull out a piece of silver or gold, their eyes light up as if you had pulled out something of value which it is and most merchants will accept it.

Here, you ask someone if they will accept gold or silver as payment and they act like you are offering them nothing of value, they want cash…money. Telling them you are offering them money in the form of gold and silver is like talking to a wall.

I am just curious to your thoughts on the subject because I am ready to get rid of my gold and silver for food and land instead.

Best Regards,
Daniel

Comments

  1. Tom The Tinker says:

    Sir: I have seen two videos demonstrating the lack of interest in PMs. Americans are for the most part simply unable to understand ‘value’ unless it is denominated in USD on a sale poster at the mall. My PMs are not for simple transactions after some event sinks Fiats… paper. They are for a society that has adjusted back to a point that a surplus of ‘goods’.. even services are available and a ‘currency’ with true value is needed to obtain them. The Federalies may very well ‘print’ a new paper note and make it the law of the land that ‘you / we’ accept it for all debts public and … otherwise. Am I going to accept a faith based currency that I know is of no value whatsoever or…. give you a deep deep discount for partial or full payment in your olde olde pocket change. History past and not so supports PMs. I have bought and sold preps for silver coin. I discount every purchase at local shows for payment in silver coin. Long term… PMs are what you will need to open your own bank………….. Like PMs … or not, would you honestly rather have a $100 bill in the night stand or a $100 face value in silver dimes and quarters. Try that and take stock of how you ‘really’ feel.

  2. Rider of Rohan says:

    Daniel, I would definitely get rid of my gold and silver for land and food. That would be a great choice, though you might want to keep some of your PM’s just in case. Land, food, and weapons should all take precedence over PMs. Then, if you have excess resources, it would be great to balance them out with PMs. Where most people get in trouble is having all their eggs in one basket. Spread the risk around a bit, have some cash on hand, PMs, barter goods(coffee, cigarettes, liquor, sugar, salt) in abundance, and learn to grow a vegetable garden. These are the things that will help you get through a crisis. Now, I better continue working on my own advice.

    • add meds and sanitary supplies to the list. also hardware [such as oil lamps] and their accoutrements.

  3. riverrider says:

    the folks who see no value in pm’s have nothing of value to you, nor will they.

  4. Daniel
    TTT & RofR both offer sage advice. You were wondering why Americans think of gold and silver & silver coinage as not being money. It goes to the way the generations have been raised, after 1913. If you look back in history our “true” money was to be made from only gold and silver in the form of coinage, tptb have made sure we were retrained to believe that as a fallacious.
    Example of 4 siblings living, only two of us know that silver coinage and pm’s are a money commodity, where the other two think of paper as cash of the realm. Yet, the two that think of paper as a commodity, are the older generation and should know better.
    The other two are family historians who do research, research states pm’s are the money of the world and in the Constitution of the United States.
    Daniel, use your pm’s wisely, as given advice from RofR save some if you can to have on hand when paper(cash)is good for only the outhouse :-).

    • you cannot take land with you, pm’s are portable. if gov’t. seizes the land–don’t think they won’t– your pm’s can go with you if you are able to escape.

  5. Gold and Silver have been sought after for thousands of years. People and Societies have been killed and conquered for it and war fought for it. I have to believe that even though some people do not see gold and silver as currency, after a collapse and they have none they will quickly learn that it is. And I do agree Rider that land, shelter and food should come first then you may be able to barter for some of that gold and silver when the time comes.

  6. j.r. guerra in s. tx. says:

    Tangible goods that you USE like food, water, arms and medicine are primary prep items. PMs are for future wealth, as stated above. Land is good, but what if for any reason you are forced to evacuate and leave what you have at site ? In that case, a small stash of gold or silver I think would be nice to have – call it portable wealth. Pre-65 U.S. silver coins and gold chains – rings are small enough to where ‘making change’ is less necessary. Wouldn’t want to be cutting a bar into pieces like a piece of soap. :^)

    Just my thoughts, your opinions will likely disagree. I’m no finiancial guru by any means.

    Only problem is – will you find someone willing to trade the item you need for them ?

    • patientmomma says:

      While I think PMs have a definite value and use-like paying taxes or medical services-, I probably wouldn’t accept them for trade or payment. I don’t know enough about gold to tell the fake from the real stuff. China has been counterfeiting gold and silver American and Canadian coins for a decade; they are so good only the very experts can tell a fake after 4 different tests. Anyone can print a “certificate of authenticity.”

  7. JP in MT says:

    Daniel:

    If I have the to make the choice between land & food or gold & silver, land and food wins every time. There are those that understand the value of PM’s, but most of America has it’s head down, and their hands over their ears because they don’t want to hear that the paradigm that they operate under is not universal. Most Americans have not traveled abroad. Many of those that have go to places where American Dollars are readily exchanged on the street. They expect this just like they expect everyone in the world to speak English.

    In a collapse, you will need land and food sooner and longer than you will need PM’s. For us, it is a way to store wealth to trade for things we don’t have or forgot to get. Down the road toward recovery they will mean more. But not after the 1st 2 weeks at most.

  8. Boy it’s a mixed question. I believe at first barter will be the way to obtain things but in any true barter system there is eventually a paper or PM assigning value to bartered items. In fact if the internet is to be believed there has never been a true barter system. There is no way to reimburse anyone for labor in a barter system. Sure one might barter labor for a product like food but that requires a ton of food supplies to sustain the laborer while the labor is performed.

  9. James Nelson says:

    As long as paper dollars are accepted by most for payment of debts, precious metals won’t be generally accepted as currency in the USA. Other countries have experienced currency crashed in historical times and better understand the value of gold and silver.
    I agree that holding precious metals is secondary to basic prepping supplies, but once you have the basics some money should be invested in them.
    All of the fiat currency systems ever created have collapsed eventually. It is just too easy for governments to turn up the printing press. Precious metals will always be worth something and thus will enable you to protect some of your wealth. When the dollar finally crashes here, gold and silver will be more generally appreciated.
    For most people silver is a better bet in a collapse. Smaller denominations allows smaller purchases, it might be difficult to get change back from your 1 ounce gold coin when buying food or other such items.
    Central banks are currently suppressing gold and silver prices for their own reasons, both are selling for less than the cost of production. To me this means that eventually be a major price rise even if a complete collapse is not forthcoming.

    • Bam Bam says:

      James,

      You write, “Central banks are currently suppressing gold and silver prices for their own reasons, both are selling for less than the cost of production.”

      I know this is true but I am unable to articulate the reasons why. This is not my area of expertise but I imagine that by keeping silver and gold artificially low, the fed (and other world banks) “force” people into the stock market. The central banks manipulate the stock market so as to keep the world powers afloat.

      I am trying to put two and two together here. Please explain.

  10. Don Duncan says:

    Very few people recognize PM as money, or of any value. So what good are they? They are insurance against hyperinflation. When the $ collapses, not “if”, the value of PM will quickly be recognized by the masses. But most won’t have PM. They will have to trade(sell) for it. Do you believe in being prepared? Prepared for economic collapse? Then PM is necessary for commerce insurance.

  11. Catfish says:

    My high school geography teacher was a brilliant man and also the biggest hippy pot head I ever met. He took every 5th year off to backpack the world. I mean back corner hitch a ride on a yak places. He said he never left home for a trip without his gold chain. He would have a 4 to 5 ounce chain made of 22k gold with each link being open so it could be taken apart with a pocket knife. He said there are lots of places where there is no paper money. The chain was also his insurance policy. Anywhere in the world a few links of chain would get you what you needed no questions asked.

  12. I bought silver eagles and junk silver coins only after obtaining all my beens, bullets and bandaids. If the big collaspe comes, we’ll need them first but somewhere down the road when things settle down, silver will be a great way to buy things when bartering doesn’t work between two parties. I didn’t buy my silver for investment as it doesn’t pay dividends. It’s only for the possibility of the SHTF. Don’t forget that lead is a great precious metal too!

  13. Dan,

    The current population of the USA (After the Great Depression) has not known poverty, want or anything close to an economic or monetary meltdown, and as a result, they cannot relate to REAL VALUE because money has always = those 3″ X 6″ pieces of green paper. (also known as the dollar) Even during the last economic crash the dollar was still worth a dollar. For the present, the dollar is still the RESERVE CURRENCY of the world, but that is changing very quickly under the current DL. If we have a currency devaluation, (and we will eventually) portable wealth will not be green pieces of paper because that is what got us here in the first place. (Courtesy of the Federal Reserve) Remember, Nixon took us off the gold standard. More than likely, there is nothing in Fort Knox now but IOU’s that back the dollar. That is not to say that land or some other tangible asset will not be worth anything, and I would want some PAID for land to call home, but when the state insists you pay your taxes, are you going to give up 1 of your 10 acres to keep the wolf away from the door this year? Will they even except that or will they want it all? What about next year? In this scenario, (IMHO) it will be important to be out of debt, (including the place I call home) with the ability to be as self sufficient as possible AND some form of recognized global money. Gold and silver have always been money. Silver is a bargain right now. Hedge your bets and do both.

  14. Donna in MN says:

    Our system doesn’t accept gold and silver as money, except US minted coins. I do know SS# are collected and the IRS is involved if gold is bought here.

    If I were you I would invest in land and long term food storage with some of it and keep some on hand for insurance against the dollar collapsing.

    • Rider of Rohan says:

      “I do know SS# are collected and the IRS is involved if gold is bought here.”

      Very interesting. That fact in itself leads me to believe that the gov’t considers gold as money, or why would it require SS#s for a retail product? .

    • No. The IRS is not involved in gold purchases for less than $10K.

  15. Bam Bam says:

    I received two silver Eagles from J.M. Bullion today. I have six silver Eagles now. I enjoy pulling them out and looking at them, like Golem “my precious”. LOL I am buying silver because I want to diversify. I am a ways from 50. I have been working since I was 15. And every job I’ve had since college I’ve put away the maximum in my retirement. (I drive a truck that is 18 years old.) If the U.S. economy pulls through, I will be okay. I’ve made all the right financial decisions. If the economy collapses, I will survive.

    I was drinking a glass of pink lemonade today–the good stuff. And I was grateful we can still buy stuff. I invest in silver because after a collapse I would still like to buy stuff–not necessarily pick lemonade, but essential stuff like dental visits.

    • Tactical G-Ma says:

      Bam Bam
      Congrats on the Eagles. Your entry made me laugh. So many people today think that a smart phone is essential and dental health is a luxury they can’t afford. I remember years ago saving money for a color TV only to have a filling come out and wound up spending the money at the dentists.
      I’m older than you, a lot, but it still comes down to choices. There are many people in the U.S. tonight who are homeless. A few years ago a family member made some poor choices, lost their job, their home, their car, and the family found themselves living in an old rv that had no windows. We all did our best to help. Eventually things got better. But at the time, there were 40,000 homeless in the Tampa Bay area. If things get worse, we really have to tighten up the security and not just in Florida!

    • SoCalPrepper says:

      Me too! But in my case, it is a mix of those Valcambi silver bars that can be broken into 1 or 10 ounce squares, and 90% silver coin. I love watching my little stack grow! I try to buy 1-2 bars, or about $300 worth of silver, every other month or so. That’s an amount that doesn’t cut into prepping the basic stuff, food/security/first aid, and I like watching the pile grow!

      I may never need it. It may just be cool to see what it’s worth in 20 years. But if I do need it…it’s there.

    • Hi Bam Bam, “I enjoy pulling them out and looking at them”

      You can get a sterling bezel for not a lot of money (c. $15-35 depending on how fancy) and then you can use it as a pendent on a necklace. I’ve done that with several silver dollars : a Morgan, a Peace..actually, two of the Peace dollars because my DW like both sides but you can only have one of them right side up, and one of the new bullion eagles. They are very slightly different diameters, though, so you have to be sure to get the correct size bezel.

      You can also get bezels for quarters and half dollars. Some people like the Franklin halves.

      They let you have your silver and enjoy it as jewelry too. Of course, people who have gold coins can do the same thing. Lets you carry around some assets all the time. Sort of an Every Day Carry around your neck.

      • Pineslayer says:

        Penrod thank you for that idea. Now it sounds so obvious. I like the idea of wearing some PM, maybe out of view. The old time belts, double walled, built to last, filled with metal. Part of a Load Bearing Set-up. Sounds like a business opportunity for someone.

        • You’re welcome, Pineslayer. I think that silver or gold coin pendants are some of the most beautiful jewelry one can get at anything like the price relative to the value of the metal.

          If you are going to have the metal anyway, you get the pendant for the cost of the bezel. Most gold and silver jewelry has an incredible mark up over the bullion value.

          Even tossing in the cost of the bezel, you come out way ahead over normal pendants, and you get to enjoy some of your precious metals.

          I just did an Amazon search for ‘money belt leather’ and got a ton of hits, from under $20 to $200. Then I selected the department “Clothing and Accessories” so I could rank by price, highest first. (I was thinking that an EDC money belt should be a good one- it has to last.) I skipped over the exotic leather ones, but there are what look like some very good horsehide ones, tho I didn’t look long. One said it doubles as a gun belt. A comment on another said the buyer had fit in $1500 in $50 bills.

          Anyway, there are a lot of options.

  16. As in most of the previous posts I think your food, ammo, a few guns , water all must take the beginning of your prep dollars. I do think that silver is a good thing to start adding , but again , be sure food etc. are first. I , personally , think gold is to pricey , in that it would be hard to divide if buying or trading for things. Booze, ammo, medical supplies, hygiene items and even toilet paper will also be highly effective bartering items. Silver will also most likely go way up if things get bad , and at $20 an ounce it is very affordable

  17. moonstone says:

    I have some silver in junk coins. Can’t afford gold. So just how much silver would you suggest a person should have in order to function if or when that shtf thing happens?

    • Hi Moonstone, I think that is a personal decision which we all need to make based on our circumstances, including just what future possible problems concern us.

      Some gold bugs think we ought to have all our assets in gold. I think that is absolutely nuts: you might do very well over several months, and lose 50% of your savings after that.

      I’m inclined to think that one or two percent of one’s savings is reasonable for most people, or maybe a few hundred dollars worth of silver coins at today’s prices. And I would spread out the purchases over quite some time- years, not weeks.

      It depends on what you want to accomplish though. Are you looking for a back up medium of exchange during serious inflation, or are you trying to get meaningful wealth through a collapse?

      The first case might suggest a few hundred dollars in junk silver, the other might suggest a personally significant chunk of capital in gold and silver.

      The problem is that what goes up can come down. Way down. Silver hit $50 per ounce in 1980. That was roughly $140 per ounce in today’s dollars. Gold hit $600, which is about $1700 adjusted today. People who bought a personally significant amount then lost a big chunk of their savings. Anybody who tells you that you can’t lose by buying gold or silver is just wrong.

      For our situation, I am not comfortable calling PMs an investment: they do not pay dividends, interest, or rent. They are a means of ensuring we have a widely recognized medium of exchange, and a means of getting some wealth through a collapse.

      In that sense, buying some silver and some gold is like buying an insurance policy. With insurance, if we never have to collect on it, the premiums we pay are entirely money spent. If we do need the insurance, we get it all back and more.

      Unlike an insurance policy, though, even if the value goes down, there is still value remaining. For us, it makes sense to put a small amount of money into PMs over time, rather than making one big purchase. If gold and silver prices dropped by 2/3, we would be unhappy, but it wouldn’t be enough to devastate us because we don’t have a huge chunk of our savings in PMs, and we would probably increase our PMs when prices seemed low.

  18. Every month I try to buy silver coins in one form or another, No more than $100 at a time. Over the past several years pre-1965 coins have become very difficult to get. One month all I could find locally was a single 59 cent piece for about $8.00. Just yesterday the best I could do was 3 silver eagles. There must be a lot of people out there hourding these coins for what they consider a good reason. PMs make up a very small percentage of my prep investment. But in trying to strike some balance and have as many bases covered as possible I do have some.

  19. Ezekiel 7:19 in the King James version of the Old Testament in the Bible offers what I consider wisdom regarding PM. Please no religious bashing .

    “They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the Lord: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumbling block of their iniquity”.

    • col d.,
      this is exactly what i think of during these discussions. the pm’s are okay but there will come a point when it will all be for naught
      it is written that the treasure will be found by the roadside and the bodies of the owners of it further along, all on a journey to find food and water but there is none. all the gold in the world cannot buy what isn’t there.
      just hope Jesus gets here as soon as possible.
      i often wonder what He is waiting for.
      we know that as bad as it may get here it will be almost unutterably worse just before He comes.
      if it is before my generation dies out we will have to undergo suffering like we have never known.
      that said, God still expects us to do the best we can so i know He will bless us as we try to do right in His eyes.
      keep praying!

  20. Chuck Findlay says:

    (Questions and answers with The Wolf Pack : Gold and Silver Who Will Want It?)

    You will always be able to turn gold or silver into cash by exchanging it at a local coin store for the currency of the day. So the answer is that everyone that takes paper money right now will take it in the future.

    Every time I’m in the coin store to buy silver there is always a few people selling gold or silver. I see it all the time. They get a check made out to them for whatever the price of the PM is worth. Then all they do is go cash it and spend it wherever.

    .

    • MorePooperThanPrepper says:

      “You will always be able to turn gold or silver into cash by exchanging it at a local coin store for the currency of the day.”

      Wouldn’t that be nice…

      Then can I take the currency to the spa and get a facial?

      I guess this collapse of the economy and SHTF isn’t too bad after all.

      Sorry I’m being a sarcastic pr*ck today. Wrong side of the bed…

      I don’t have a lot of faith (in a lot of things) and the power of shiny metal to make other people give you precious life sustaining rare goods in times of trouble is one of those things I have little faith in. Unbelievers are always kinda pr*cks when surrounded by the faithful.

      • MPTP:

        I think that bed thing is a common occurrence.

        I just had a problem with the term “always”. I grew up taught to not use “always” and “never”. I was told it wouldn’t take long to discover there were exceptions. So far it has proven itself to me.

        I would say that “as long as the economy still has the ability to have coin shops” you will be able to exchange them for some form of “currency of the realm”. Even if what you want is a facial and pink lemonade. The things that you want will be subject to what is available. Kind of like 22 LR ammo is now.

      • Chuck Findlay says:

        (Then can I take the currency to the spa and get a facial?)

        YES you can do this.

        If you are going to quote me and imply I can’t turn PMs into money, maybe you should read all of my post
        right under what you cut and pasted was this

        (Every time I’m in the coin store to buy silver there is always a few people selling gold or silver. I see it all the time. They get a check made out to them for whatever the price of the PM is worth. Then all they do is go cash it and spend it wherever.)

        I never said or implied every store would take PMs, I never said any would other then a coin store. And I do see it being done every time I’m in the coin store.

        If you don’t have faith in PMs, don’t buy them. But your lack of faith doesn’t make it a useless shiny metal to others.

        And the anti-PM people seem to think those that buy silver or gold do so at the expense of other preps. While a few people may do this (just as some over-spend on firearms) most people try to have a balanced approach to prepping.

        My personal situation was that I bought NO silver for the first 3-years or so when I got serious about prepping. I got all other needs handled first. then I started buying silver and I bought as much as I could and can as I’m still buying it. I have never read even one person that said to only buy PMs. Have you? And if so Where, I would like to read it.

        Also you CAN eat silver, just look up FerFal on U-Tube and watch what he said did happen in 2001 in Argentina.

        And most people don’t buy silver to make other people give you precious life sustaining rare goods in times of trouble. They do it to preserve their labor (labor is all money actually is) for the future. If the government devalued the dollar and or issued new paper currency do you think they are going to exchange the old money for the new ones at a 1 to 1 ratio? Not going to happen, they may give you 10% at most. This is where silver and gold comes into play. It has (for 5,000+years) always been a way to save your wealth in bad times and to be able to carry it through the transition to the new economy. And history has taught us over and over that there is ALWAYS a new economy.

        You have your “bean, bullets and band-aids for the SHTF time and when the dust settles and the paper money you have in the bank has evaporated, the people with PMs will still be able to have a retirement nest egg. Or a New auto nest egg, or a piece of property nest egg.

        .

  21. Depends on what you believe will happen in this country . Almost everybody is saying the economy is going to collapse . That said , with the dollar essentially worthless , gold and silver will be very likely accepted as the only stable currency .

    • Tolik:

      Immediately (or shortly) after a collapse, gold and silver will buy product, but at seriously inflated prices.

      I encourage everyone to look at the prices of weapons and ammo after Sandy Hook. If demand suddenly spikes, what you want/need will get very expensive, very quick.

      I like to read a lot of books about societal collapse (“doomer porn” as it is referred to around here). In almost every book them bring up things like gasoline going to $100/gal, cash only. You might actually do better trading PM for items like that than cash.

      Me, when it hits, I just want to sit with my coffee on the front porch with my DW. AR and M1A across our laps, and watch the show. (Option 2: pull the rock over my head and wait it out. I can go for 4 months without sunshine!) The last think I want to be is out in it.

  22. Pineslayer says:

    If you have your other bases covered and want to shelter your disposable income, there are worst ways to spend your money. This is one area where both the right and the left, the wrongs as I call them, agree. Any radio station that you listen to has their talking heads hawking PM’s. Maybe that is why I have quit buying them. If both corrupt ruling factions are trying to sell you something, beware. My thought is that when the balloon goes up, you can trade a cup of rice for a silver coin. Think what a 50lb bag of rice might be worth.

    • Hi Pineslayer: Well, then, if I need rice, I’ll be mighty glad I have some silver coins!

      I do think we have enough rice, though. Maybe we’ll be selling the extra….

      • MorePooperThanPrepper says:

        No you made a poor investment with your limited funds. Putting it into silver and gold which will get you less post collapse than the “worthless” dollars will today.

        I tried to call your attention to this idea yesterday. Why put your money in something that will hold up better than the dollar just to end up buying fewer goods post SHTF. You can just use your dollars today to buy durable, useful, shelf stable, money saving goods of intrinsic value.

        Turning $3000 into a hand full of gold, then into a weeks worth of food is a terrible investment for SHTF.

        None of us has a crystal ball, and I still only believe there is a 10% chance of anything terribly wrong happening to the economy in my lifetime. So everybody do what they like and if it is logically consistent with your expectations for the future so much the better.

    • MorePooperThanPrepper says:

      Not to mention that every one of those companies who says “Fiat paper money is worthless you must buy silver and gold for the coming collapse!!!” Is doing what? Trading their precious “real value” gold and silver for what? Fiat paper. !??!!?!

      Unless you can use it yourself (like eating food, and firing ammo) things are only ever worth what someone else will give you for them. And in terms of future trade value all we can really do is hope we are predicting the future correctly. And speaking for myself that is a hard hard thing to do.

      • Hi MPTP, “all we can really do is hope we are predicting the future correctly. And speaking for myself that is a hard hard thing to do.”

        That is exactly why people are wise to spread out their assets. Some of their choices will be wrong, and putting everything into one basket really hurts if you drop the basket.

        If we have some serious inflation -and I think we will- having stock in good companies is one way of getting wealth through tough times. Have some PMs is as well, but very different from stocks. Having a house with no mortgage is a great thing during inflation. Having a house with a fixed rate mortgage is even better so long as you can continue to make the payments, because the real value of the mortgage is decreased by inflation.

        Some people did all right during the 1970s inflation: those people with big fixed rate mortgages who did not default made out like bandits because the inflation significantly reduced the real value of their loans. Of course, those who lost their jobs and then their houses got hurt badly.

        I cannot say that having more than several weeks of stored food is a better allocation of resources than PMs. What if we have a bout of serious inflation, but not a collapse? What if food never does become unavailable? What if we never need to dip into our stored food, ever?

        With some good reasons, there were plenty of preppers during the 1970s and 1980s who were absolutely positive that we would very shortly have either a total economic collapse or an all out nuclear war or both.

        They were absolutely sure, and they were wrong.

        The point is that you were right: we cannot predict the future with much accuracy, and that is exactly why to spread out our assets. Putting all our assets into things which will do well only in a collapse means that if we are wrong about a collapse, we’re screwed. That will affect the rest of our lives, too.

        It’s a lot better to be prepared for disasters than not be prepared, and there are a lot of different disasters for which to prepare. We cannot guarantee that any of the really big ones will occur- not nuclear war, not economic collapse, not hyperinflation, not EMP attack or CME, none of them are guaranteed. Every one of them is a possibility, tho, and reasonable people do prepare.

        Part of preparing well comes from understanding that none of those disasters may ever occur in our lifetimes, and preparing for that situation as well.

        Even if the worst kind of disaster does hit, look at the European Jews during the 1930s: Were they better off stocking up on even more food, or stocking up on gold and diamonds, then getting out of Europe? In their situations, extra weeks of food was nearly worthless. Flight capital, and the wisdom to flee, was the only successful option. Whatever food, whatever tools, whatever medicines, they left behind were worthless to them. PMs are flight capital. Without it we may be living in a UN refugee tent. In Mexico.

        Some asset choices will get hurt, some will do well, and we hope that they will average out. Two years worth of food will be worthless if we have to flee too suddenly to take it with us. Precious metals might be very useful indeed.

        If we are ever in the position of German Jews in 1935, we want to be like those who converted some wealth into PMs and diamonds and left for Buenos Aires or Bangkok, not like those who bought some more food and hunkered down.

        • MorePooperThanPrepper says:

          Thanks for lots of good thoughts on this. I think I am probably in about 97% agreement with you.

          I was trying to make my point against those who see Gold as the infallible panacea for SHTF preparation. You suggested to have about 1-2% in pm. I actually have more than that, somewhere maybe around 10%.

          I really want to argue against those who want folks to cash out their retirement accounts (even at a penalty) and put it all into metals because metals have intrinsic value unlike “paper” assets which are worthless. They suggest that then when SHTF, PMs will be able to buy so much because they are “real money.”

          In their posts there is a clear step-by-step narrative, dollars are paper so they are worthless (never mind that they work hard for paper and trade paper to others for goods of great value – and have done this for their entire lives). When the dollar collapses in the next months or few years, then having all one’s savings in gold will make one a king surrounded by ignorant sheeple paupers. Now you will be able to buy anything you want with your real-money-gold while everybody else’s assets can only be used for toilet paper.

          But what if gold goes substantially down in value? But what if no-body is particularly interested in gold after SHTF? What if the dollar never collapses? What if an autocratic government outlaws trade in PMs? What if the lack of paper bills in circulation, and the inability to physically print more, make people want greenbacks that much more when their credit cards don’t scan? If only 10% of people have PMs (many of them probably very well off) do we really want to decide they are the only one’s with any wealth? Don’t you think banks and governments and the elite hold a lot more silver and gold than you do? Do you really want to embrace a system where they still have all the wealth and power, simply because they have shiny yellow metal?

          Oh well, time to give up and disappear for a while again.

          • MPTP: I agree with everything you said, and think your questions are very important ones to consider.

            People who think that precious metals are a panacea for all conditions are, in my opinion, badly mistaken. Also, I don’t think 10% of assets in PMs is at all unreasonable for many people.

            How much to allocate is highly dependent on how many resources one has, and what one’s concerns are. There is no one correct answer. Each of us needs to work that out for ourselves, considering our own situation. That situation probably changes over the years, so a decision made 10 years ago is worth reconsidering. It may still be the right decision, or it may not: situations differ, and situations change.

            History suggests that after a major crisis people will still be interested in precious metals, but that the interest will almost inevitably be less than during the crisis. 1979-1980 felt like a crisis –and I think it was– but after the crisis conditions improved the price of gold did collapse. ( Remember- I bought gold in 1980. I lost my shirt. The best thing I can say is that I did not put a lot of my assets into gold, but that was more because I didn’t have a lot of assets to allocate to gold, rather than wisdom. I am still glad I bought some: it got my feet wet, even if I did buy badly. I write off that loss as tuition: I learned something from it. The people who told me that I could not lose with gold were wrong!)

            That is exactly why we should accumulate gold and silver when we are not in crisis, and accept that we may still be buying at a significantly less than ideal time. We can lose big time on almost anything, but at least with precious metals, we can hope that since we will only sell them in a major crisis that they will be peaking in value, as the value of some of our other allocations plummet.

            I certainly hope you do not disappear for a while. Your thinking is too valuable. Even when we disagree –and I think we really do not disagree very much at all– we stimulate thinking. Thinking is more valuable than gold or silver.

  23. Benjammin says:

    Under normal conditions, gold and silver are like any other commodity. They are referred to as a hedge investment because the value usually moves counter to most all other markets.

    Central banks working in fiat currencies like to keep the PM values suppressed because there is a finite amount of it that they have to acquire through limited means. They have a virtually unlimited supply of fiat currency that they control, allowing them to fleece the population of their share of the gdp.

    In an economic crisis involving a fiat currency, such as ours, having a supply of physical gold and silver will buy you time. Maybe days or weeks. The reason is that as the currency collapses, people will still want some standard for trade and compensation, and merchants will not be prepared for barter right away. But as consumable goods will become increasingly scarce, the use of PM as exchange will also dissipate.

    Those few days or weeks that PM can buy you in a crash can be invaluable for survival, if you plan carefully and make the most of it.

  24. I think it depends on how bad and how fast things happen, but once we have settled into the next reality, the “new order” if you like, we will be working on a barter system, people trading for what they want/need. gold and silver, may be pretty, but it may be more useful to have lead,copper and tin, and tool steel. Being able to work these metals into objects will be a trade-able skill also.

    • My Friend and I have been crusing junk yards and repair shops for some time getting wheel weights. We accumulated about 200 pounds over the winter. When the weather allows we are going to melt them down and cast into ingots for casting into bullets at a later date. it makes for a nice day around the garage, have a couple of beers and have a way to be self sufficient on ammo.

  25. The truth of the matter is this, anything you have is only as valuable as someone is willing to pay for it. Today that silver might be really valuable, tomorrow, who knows.

    I think if things get bad, most people wont be too interested in gold and silver on a daily basis, until tax time comes around. The government will more than likely take your pms as payment to keep your land out of their clutches. I think the ability to trade food, medical needs and other such things will be a higher demand. Think back to when doctors were given chickens or vegetables out of the garden in payment for their services. Where money came in was when it came to buying land, taxes and ‘extras.’ Wealth was in land, cattle, and items that were used daily.
    Think about dowry that was once used. Yes for the rich silver and gold was used, along with land transfers, but for the poor families, daughters would go to their new husbands with a cow or other livestock, furniture, other household goods (a good pot, cloth, sewing needles and thread, ect), seeds, and the like.
    So in my long round about way of saying it, I do think that some pms is a good idea, but land, food, and other needed items will help a lot more. Diversify as much as you can.

  26. Chuck Findlay says:

    (Think about dowry that was once used

    daughters would go to their new husbands with a cow or other livestock, furniture, other household goods (a good pot, cloth, sewing needles and thread, ect), seeds, and the like.)

    Times have changed. Woman today would go ballistic at the thought that they would have to bring household goods, sewing items and the like to the table to get a husband. After all men are worthless as TV & Hollywood has shown us.

    .

  27. Brearbear says:

    “I think the ability to trade food, medical needs and other such things will be a higher demand. Think back to when doctors were given chickens or vegetables out of the garden in payment for their services.” TG

    “Flight capital, and the wisdom to flee, was the only successful option. Whatever food, whatever tools, whatever medicines, they left behind were worthless to them.” Penrod

    Good points everyone.

    So much to think about…so much to learn!

    “we stimulate thinking.”
    Penrod

    Thanks All!