Guns Not to Buy For Survival
by M.D. Creekmore on December 4, 2009
There are countless
books
, articles and
blog posts dedicated to choosing
survival guns. What I haven’t seen much of is suggestions for what
not to buy.
I’m sure many will disagree with the conclusions given here, or have other suggestions that I failed to mention or overlooked.
In some cases it isn’t a matter of overlooking or forgetting to mention a certain manufacture, but simply the fact that I have no experience with the firearm not on the list.
Unlike some others, who tend to give endorsements or criticize without firsthand knowledge, I only give advise on things I have personally used, tested, worked on and evaluated.
Best Avoided
Phoenix Arms – Low price, and low quality.Lorcin – Cheaply made, with poor quality parts.Hi-Point – The carbines are fair, the handguns are prone to failure.Bryco – Jam – Fire – Jam – Fire, Jam, Jam, broke firing pin.FIE – Well known for their inferior quality, currently out of business.Llama – Some good, others junk – best to avoid the lot.Sterling – mediocre quality and usually unreliable, currently out of businessCharco Arms – Formally Charter Arms, chambers rough, the action tends to lock up and they have a tendency to shave lead.Intratec – Tec-9, Low quality construction, inaccurate, will not reliably feed hollow-point ammunition.Norinco – Quality control is hit and miss, some of their products seem to be pretty good considering the price, others not so much.If I failed to mention a manufacture that you know produces junk don’t be shy, please share your experience with us in the comments below
.
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There are countless books
{ 30 comments }
I am going to say this in defence of my beloved Hi Point.
Let all the haters of this gun go and spend $400, $500, or $600 on their firearms. My Hi Point is NOT Ugly, (I in fact love the way it looks, handles and shoots, I have a compact 9mm). It never failed me, I shot EVERY SINGLE round I fed it. It is very reliable, durable and accurate on the nose.
I would challenge any Glock, Sig, Smith & Wesson, Springfield, Kahr, or Beretta with my Hi Point. It would put you guys to shame, not only because it shoots great and does all what I have said, it is the fraction of the cost of your gun. So there you have it.
Buy a Hi Point with confidence. Any problems? You have a lifetime guarantee. I want to see THAT in a $600 gun once it malfunctions.
I also have a Phoenix Arms HP22A it is a sweet gun, solid and great to shoot, so do not beleive the crap you hear about it. I shot close to 1000 through it, NOT A SINGLE PROBLEM.
Phoenix Arms also have a LIFETIME GUARANTEE like Hi Point.
I bought a Hi Point C-9 9mm (new), Phoenix Arms HP22A (new), a Heritage Rough Rider (new), a Llama .22 (used) and I paid only $550 FOR ALL! Take that you high payers!!!!, not only that!! NOT A SINGLE ONE OF MY GUNS MALFUNCTIONED AFTER 1000S OF ROUNDS! and I simply LOVE my guns!
'nuff said!
First of all all of our revolvers say "Charter Arms" on the barrel not Charco Arms. We are a family owned company that has 24 employees that are all U.S. citizens, active shooters, and actually care about the products and quality of them. We have a "Lifetime Warranty" which we certainly could not support without quality. Call our customer service department and a real person will help you. The surface finish on our chambers is 32 micro and spent shells fall out. Our frame is stronger then a S&W as well as smaller, in addition our cylinder assembly is held in by our frame, a S&W is held in by a small screw which has a tendency to fail.
Nick Ecker owner of Charter Arms
Any hand gun might do well for personal protection but in a survival situation I wouldn't care much about conceal carry. AK-47 would be my best option. Powerful 7.62×36 round,high capacity magazine,reliable,rugged,easy to maintain. Add a scope and you can bring down some pretty big game with it, not to mention how intimidating it looks to any would be bandits you might encounter. Yes if you meet up with me in a survival situation you can bet I'll have my AK.
What ever you purchase, regardless of brand, test it thoroughly. I've seen high quality firearms fail and low quality firearms work fine.
I had a Ruger P90 once upon a time ago. Enjoyed shooting it more than the Beretta for awhile. For me, its S&W or Ruger for handguns. Rifles and shots are Remington and a few other manufacturers. If you can't afford a SuperDuper Blunderbuss 3000 MBR, then get a decent Remington 870, a Ruger 10/22, a Remington 700 in 30.06 and an SKS or AK variant from Classic Arms. For a handgun, pick up a S&W 40 or Ruger revolver. Those are my picks.
I am an idiot. I put the recoil spring in backwards reassembling my S&W Sigma .40. Any tips on how to take it back down or do I have to send it in for repair? thanks for any help.
your a real funny guy. Why ain’t nobody laffin’? Guess you better send it to the factory for proper repair then sell it to someone who won’t shoot themselves.
Life time guarantees doesnt matter much when shtf!!
first handgun i bought hi point 9mm first pull of the trigger it jammed
second handgun i bought glock 19 first pull of the trigger Bang!
Yeah I agree, lifetime of the owner and no chance to collect when it fails.
I live on a small cattle ranch/farm. I can shoot most days and have a Colt 22 Targetsman that shoots round after round without problems. I also shoot a Hi Power Browning with the same reliability. I do not clean my guns as often as I should and the scoped AR15 “kitgun” is the only rifle jam problem I have. Because this is the gun I use to keep dogs off my new calves, I do the cleaning. My Norinco AK is my favorite but is not as flat from 50 to 150 yards as the 223 however the AK is my pick if it would be a defense situation. The ammo is also cheaper (unless you reload). I also have a Colt 70 light weight 45acp that I bought new. The feed problems were solved by a Wilson mag. It is a fun shooter but 9mm is much cheaper to shoot. My son has a Taurus 92 in 9mm and it is an excellent gun but does not have the accuracy of the Browning or Colt. The 9mm seems to be the ideal round for me with the low recoil that is fairly mild and the hotter ammo is good for defense and, again the price and supply. The mystery gun for me is a Colt 32 auto pocket pistol, 1908 I think. Small tiny sights and a marginal round does not make this a 1st choice for almost any usage. But, I can hit with it at 25 yards as well as or better than any hand gun I have fired. The 32 S&B ammo is almost up to 380 specs but still not up to 9mm or better. Sure is a fun shooter though. The big sleeper is the Tok and CZ 762×25 which is a really hot little 30 cal handgun round that has more energy than a 45acp. Ammo can be bought at about 12 to 15 cents a round at J&G. It does have recoil and noise but you can shoot it for about half price. I do not enjoy shooting one, about like a 38 2", which brings up Charter which is a GOOD little gun, shoots as good a Smith.
Regarding the Ruger P90, I've owned one since 1998 and have fired it on a weekly basis since the purchase, I've used numerous types of bullets, hollow pt, semi wade cutter, RN ect., along with minimum to max loads and in all kinds of weather, snow, hours in the rain, ect. and after thousands of rounds fired, I've had three rounds jam, all from out of round cases (bad relouds) Although not the shinyest or prettiest handgun out there, it is a very dependable and capable weapon.
Excellant list!!!
I have dealt with some Taurus pistols and found them a very good value.
Shop around & utilize layaway!!
Take care –
Rourke
WorldInfoCD.com
I have 3 Hi Points a 380 a9mm and a .45 they go 'bang' every time I shoot them! I never had any problems with them.
pardon me but im rather new at this … i do enjoy your site though mr. Creekmore. thankyou for it. anyways on with business…
i have a taurus .357 snub nose 5 shot revolver, a S&W .357 6 shot revolver with 6" bbl. I have fired several hundred though both revolvers and love 'em.
I just purchased a M&P ( apparently made under the S&W brand) .45 10 shot semi auto ( just shot 5 rounds through it new years morning..thrilling the neighbors.. over the holidays though i spied my next purchase an AR-10 7.62 bsttle rifle .. denny denison was asking 1485.00.. anyone know about those rascals?
I can't let a chance to endorse my newest fave little pistol slip by me. Get yourself a CZ vz82 before the surplus ones start to dry up. Outstanding little things.
–
Little Jerry
Best gun to buy to CYA?
The one that goes bang, every time the trigger is pulled! If it's cheap, buy two.
It doesn't matter if it cost $100. or $1000, if it don't go bang, it ain't worth crap!
Battlefields have been littered with AK-47s, & M-16 that didn't go bang when it was supposed to.
The grave isn't impressed by price tags.
nothing like a bunch of freakin gun snobs,I have both a Hi Point C9 and the Pheonix HP22A, both are reliable and fire every time I pull the trigger.The Pheonix 22 is not a "survival" gun its a plinker.As for the Hi Point, its a very reliable gun,even the most expensive guns will jam once in awhile,and all guns will have a "favorite" brand of ammo.
Had a Para-Ord 13-45 bought brand new spent 350 trying to get it to run through a single mag without a misfeed or orther problem 3 different springs ramp work new mags new springs for mags and sold it biggest POS I have ever owned.
I'm confused, We're talking survival here right ? Why would anyone in their right mind want a handgun in a survival situation ? The reality is that your gonna have to hunt for your meals. A smaller caliber/gauge shotgun or rifle is without a doubt the way to go. Ammo is cheap and readily available. So here's my list of the top 3 "Survival Guns" in my gun cabinet.
(1) A 410/.22 Over Under Combination Rifle & Shotgun in one. They are small, pack easy, reliable and the Ammo is DIRT CHEAP. The offer both the knockdown power of the .410 for birds and the long range .22 for small game/protection.
(2) A .22 Caliber Scoped Rifle (no gun cabinet should be without one). You can pick up a good semi-auto w/scope for under $200.00 (The Remington 597, Ruger 10/22, Marlin 60) And once again .22 ammo is dirt cheap.
(3) A 12, 20 or 28 gauge shotgun. These offer many different shell sizes for everything from small game to waterfowl. And if you add a slug barrel, Deer.
Forget about the big caliber fancy guns. Overkill will get you killed in a real survival situation.
“Why would anyone in their right mind want a handgun in a survival situation?”
Because if you go into town today with a long gun, you’ll be arrested on the spot, and if you don’t have any gun when you go to town today, you may not make it back. You have to survive all of the problems ‘today’ in order to survive TEOTWAWKI tomorrow.
Also, for a person who doesn’t think a handgun is worthwhile, you also don’t have a centerfire rifle listed in your survival guns. So basically, you are only prepared for the medium ranges with your .22 rifles and shotguns. I don’t think you’ll survive for long, some MZB will take you out at your mailbox since you don’t take your shotgun to the mailbox and you won’t have a handgun, or he’ll snipe you with a 30-30 from about 150 yards and take everything you have since you can’t accurately defend yourself with your .22 or shotgun at that distance, and will be a sitting duck.
No wonder you’re posting as anonymous, cause you’re a fool.
personal preferance ?
I owned a charter arms bulldog.Other than it’s caliber there is nothing to recommend about it.I spent more time fixing the screws that would back out then I did shooting it. I dropped it one day and the aluminum (or pot metal) sub frame broke at the trigger guard. The internal parts resemble prizes out of a crackerjack box. Pretty similar to an RG actually. I later gave the gun away to a friend who wanted it,after warning him.He doesn’t shoot the gun these days either. Big thumbs down,if you can afford no better,buy a high point.
I have a Hi- Point C9 and have never had a jam or failure to feed with it, in fact it will out shoot any of my Beretta’s or Sig’s every time.
Crummy guns. There are too many to name, but this list is good.
Problem guns to add to the list. Makarov – safety can fly off- fires when dropped on barrel – I know this will upset some Mak lovers but I dumpeda collection of them once I found these issues, Marlin Camp 9 – overheats and seizes, CZ52 – magazines are trash, Beretta .22 of all types – misfeeds, I’m getting rid a a Kahr CW9 – shouldn’t have to break in a gun.
Best weapons to me are the most reliable above all else if you’ve every experienced weapon failure when it counts. Stick with military specification weapons that are proven in combat. The rest qualifies as chromed up Bling that may cause your death and embarrassment for being stupid.
Pump Shotgun – Mossberg 500 or Remington 870
Handgun – Glock in any caliber, double action and stone cold reliable.
Battle Rifle – HK91, FN, or M1A
Assault Rifle – AK – AR second choice – too many parts to fail.
Sniper Rifle – HK91, M1A,
Bolt Actions – Mosin Nagant, Mauser, Remington model 700
I know folks with Hi Point’s they bought early on and they were pretty crappy. The new ones you buy today are not a bad firearm, although a little klunky for my taste.
I purchased a used Charter Arms Off Duty (similar to the S&W J-Frame) more than 10 years ago and a friend with one told me to thoroughly clean it, back out all of the screws, and locktite them into place. It has been a good reliable and comfortable gun which carries and shoots well for the intended purpose.
I am the proud owner of a nifty, little collection of firearms. I have several 4 figure firearms, and I can assure anyone whose sole interest is the truth, that the Hi- point firearms are without a doubt, the most accurate firearms that I own, and are as reliable as my Glocks, Springfields, and FNs. It’s truly sad when people spew propaganda either by intent or ignorance. I don’t own stocks in the company, nor am I looking for freebies. The only drawback is that they’re quite heavy, but it’s because they’re blowback type weapons. As far as looks, well if a fiream can go bang everytime the trigger is pulled, well that’s where its beauty lies. I don’t understand those folks who keep yacking about Hi-points being ugly; kind of make me wonder about how unattractive they must be. Anyway, just wanted to add my .02 cents, because it always infuriates me when people make disparaging remarks about a nice line of American ingenuity.
Dr Paul,
I’m glad you’ve had good luck with Hi-point firearms – I am a certified gunsmith and have owned and used guns off all brands and models for the past 30 years, and to be honest if I’d rather have a good knife than to carry one of these poor excuses for a handgun. When I was running my shop the Hi-points were one of my most worked on firearms. Sorry.
I have a Hi-Point compact 9mm and the matching carbine. Both go bang and hit the mark every time. No problems. Ask those who have them if they are good. They will say yes. Only those who really don’t have any experience with them will tell you they are junk. Affordable, yes, but junk, no way!
I have a assortment of firearms that range from top self to economy and all are proven in the field:
Colt Stainless Officers ACP My conceal carry, gun has never ftf or fte gobbles up any round fed to it and is very accurate for a personal defense weapon. Like American Express I do not leave home without it!
Mossberg 500 pump shotgun I have had this ol reliable since I was a kid, the first weapon I ever owned. Again will shoot anything fed to it and is a field gun that has taken many animals., from squirrel to deer.
Marlin 782 .22 Mag bolt action Accurate and inexpensive, my confidence rifle.
Mossberg ATR in .270 Parkerized, synthetic stock, accurate and inexpensive though I did have some work to make it a better shooter
You really do not have to have top shelf stuff but then again you should never leave them there on the shelf to collect dust either.
i set my name as anonymous just because it’s really nobody’s business who I am, just kinf of following suit here.. =p
I just bought my first shotty this year – a brand new/used once Maverick 88. Still had the stickers on it, had the security barrel on it (18.5″) and came with the field barrel (28.5″). Picked that up at Gander for $179 +tax. The Maverick 88 IS a Mossberg 500 & accepts all the same accessories etc, so if you ever come across one & could use a shotty, GET ONE. I LOVE mine, never go to the range without it. Feels good, fires beautifully, slides like butter, easy to strip down, clean, & upgrade.
I’m in the market for a pistol right now, and half the reason I bought my 12 was getting back into sport shooting. A buddy of mine (a Marine who knows his guns) is twisting my arm to get a Hi Point. Now, I KNOW they were known for jamming etc. He has a .40 acp, and it used to jam once in a great while – but he played found out that the mags’ ears were causing it. He tweaked his mags accordingly & it went away.I’ve fired it several times – once for fun, and recently once for target practice. What I don’t like about it is that it weighs 3 friggin pounds, is too big for my hands ( & I have a decent size hand with a lot of flex) & for the size of it only holds TEN rounds? 0_0 now, the first time I fired it, I shot a 180 grain Blazer ammo – his favorite. The flat tips used to jam till he fixed his mags. The weight of the gun absorbed ALL the recoil. This past week when I fired it, we shot Federal’s American Eagle hollow points (GARBAGE!!!) The gun kicked like mad (duh, hollow points over solid tips) had shit accuracy although I WILL admit I limp-wristed a bit (what do u want, i’m a 5 foot 8 160 pound lil shit lol) and jammed at least twice towards the end of the 35 rounds of that box – we were only firing it bc it was given to us =p . I want a CCW / defense sidearm. This gun doesn’t fit my hands well/comfortably, weighs a LOT for the low number of rounds it holds, and has a history of jamming unless the owner knows how to tweak things. In my opinion, fumbling for a comfortable spot on an oversized gun sucks, and so does not being able to properly reach the mag release with the hand thats HOLDING the gun while the other reaches for a fresh mag. Seconds save lives, but I need to save dollars. This fits my price range though, that’s what’s making it a hard decision. I definitely want at least a 9mm but would totally buy the 40 if the damn thing was more compact. I can’t be spending much over 300-400 though, so I’m looking at a springfield XD-40 as well as a couple glocks & rugers. Anyone have any suggestions please? I’d really like to see a response to this FROM Hi Point if they wouldnt mind. Thanks a lot everyone, I’m enjoying this thread.
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