Recently there has been some controversy as to the meaning of TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it). Some say, for it to be considered as such it must be a total Mad Max type scenario, total chaos, no rule of law and no form of government.
Others say the key term is “as we know it” so TEOTWAWKI can happen without being a total Mad Max type event. For example; an economic crisis such as that experienced in Argentina (1999–2002) or even our own Great Depression would qualify as TEOTWAWKI.
Certainly such events would change the world “as we know it” but would it constitute TEOTWAWKI?
Personally, I like the term TEOTWAYKI (the end of the world as you know it) but that’s another post for another time and I won’t get into my personal definitions here, because I want to know what you think…
It’s true most people’s definition of TEOTWAWKI will not be changed, but let’s take a vote anyway. Let the people speak.
Leave a comment to this post with either:
- Yes, I think the term TEOTWAWKI has to be a total Mad Max type event; or
- No, TEOTWAWKI could be a lesser event such as described above.
Also please take a moment to elaborate on your choice – why do you feel this way.
I’ll leave the comments open until 5:00 pm CST Sunday, August 22, 2010.
At that point we’ll count up the votes and see what we’ve got.
P.S. In all fairness, it can’t be only Survivalist Blog readers who make this determination. So, I would encourage each of you to link to this post from your own blog if you have one, and give all of your readers a chance to chime in. It’s only fair. 
{ 149 comments }
Yes, I think the term TEOTWAWKI has to be a total Mad Max type event
No, TEOTWAWKI could be a lesser event such as an economic collapse it does not have to be the end of the world. A major economic collapse would be the end of the world “as we know it”.
No, TEOTWAWKI could be a lesser event such as described above.
In my opinion, TEOTWAWKI emphasizes “as we know it”, and refers to any long-term disruption of life. Things like the Argentine crisis or the Great Depression are at the bottom-end, and Mad Max-level at the top. It isn’t so much a removal of law and order, but the dramatic shift into some new way of life and you can not return to the way it was before in any reasonable timeframe.
Short-term disasters (< 1 year) are certainly out-of-scope.
No
No, TEOTWAWKI could be a lesser event such as described above.
But I like this one also – TEOATHAC – “The End of All Things Holy and Civilized”
Kris K,
TEOATHAC – good one.
For it to be TEOTWAWKI, it has to be a scenario where everyone is affected – other events might be the end of somebody’s world, but not for other people.
For instance, if your business goes bust it could well be the end of your world as you know it, but it could signal the start of some serious prosperity for my business – which has in fact happened to me – my business took off while others were filing for bankruptcy. In a TEOTWAWKI situation, my business would go down the pan, too.
I agree with you Jean. It has to affect everyone to be TEOTWAKI. A total breakdown one way or another.
No, TEOTWAWKI could be a lesser event such as described above and government could stay intact. But I think it would need to last for a year or longer to qualify.
I’m with the Mad Max crowd, at least that’s the way I was introduced to and use the term.
Yes, I think the term TEOTWAWKI has to be a total Mad Max type event;
I think SHTF covers recessions, depressions, etc.
If TEOTWAWKI doesn’t describe this, what term does? The End of The World As We Know It – We know recessions, depressions, ups/downs, employment & unemployment, wars and rumors of war. TEOTWAWKI would be a history changing event that that no modern humans know – Nuclear War, Civil War, Mad Max, Carrington Event, massive meteor, super-volcano, Black Plague (killed 30% to 60% of Europe’s population), etc. – that would lead to total panic and lawlessness for a period of time, and would change the world in such a way that our lives are never the same. The END of The WORLD As We Know It – not the temporary disruption of our lifestyle for a few weeks, months, or years.
Yes. Jack explains the difference well.
Anything less or localized is SHTF.
Good one Jack.
Adding the differentiation between SHTF & TEOTWAWKI makes sense & I totally agree with your assessment.
Further, a SHTF can be both individual and large scale whereas TEOTWAWKI is only a “global” type event.
I hereby change my vote to yes.
I’ve always thought of the SHTF as the simply the beginning of TEOTWAWKI. It’s an event, if you will. I mean, the “S” is not going to be hitting the fan continuously, all the time, forever. It’s a precipitous event that happens, and you’re going to be left cleaning up afterwards.
Jen & Jason, – Thanks for agreeing.
D., – I’d agree that TEOTWAWKI will probably start as a SHTF. SHTF is happening all over the world to any number of people, eventually one of those SHTF events will result in TEOTWAWKI.
What cracks me up is people think TEOTWAWKI is here because they lost their job or because their electricity went out for a couple of days!
Could it be as minor as stubbing your toe? “My toe hurts, so my world is different from how I knew it!” “I’m screaming about my stubbed toe, so my wife’s getting irritated, so now it’s The End of The World As We Knew It!”
BS, that’s ridiculous.
Normal – Or SNAFU, as some people would call it. There are wars out there somewhere, floods, births, deaths, etc. and I’m effected to some extent, but life goes on.
SHTF – Local short term (< 5 yrs mol) events that effect our lives on a temporary basis, but eventually we carry on with our lives. We find another job, another house, another spouse, another country, etc. but money, fuel, electricity, transportation, food, and stores are generally available. i.e. Floods, Katrina, earthquakes, wars in your country, economic collapse, government takeover, recession, depression, etc.
TEOTWAWKI – Global long term disaster that changes our lives forever. Not a temporary event that changes our daily routine, but a earth shattering event that changes the world and we'll never get it back. No more electricity, no more medicine, no more stores, we're sleeping in caves, carrying weapons, etc.
The End – Finished, not coming back…
Of The World – No just me, not just my family, not just my city, THE WORLD.
As We Know It – We've all seen recessions, depressions, wars, etc. This
changes our life to something we haven't seen before. i.e. large meteor,
super volcano, Mad Max, Carrington event, nuclear war, the Biblical
Apocalypse, etc.
MEE – Major Extinction Event – Only the rats and roaches survive.
Jack – So you think teotwawki would have to be an event that we humans have never seen before.
So major pandemics that kill hundreds of millions, earth changes, civil war etc all would not count as a teotwawki event?
By your definition teotwawki will probably never happen if it does we will all be dead no matter what we do know.
James – No. Humans have seen and experienced many TEOWAWKI events, and they’ve seen some events that didn’t bother them, but would cause TEOWAWKI for us modern humans.
It would have to be an event that we don’t see during our normal lifetimes that would End The World As We Know It.
Pandemics – The Spanish Flu in 1918 killed 3% of the world population (50 million in 1918 or 210 million today). Not TEOWAWKI – people still worked, people still bought food, money still worked, it was over in a couple of years and everyone went back to normal.
Earth changes – 1908 Tunguska event was a meteor exploding over Russia killing thousands; 1906 San Francisco earthquake and city burnt to the ground; Krakatoa volcano in 1883, blew and lowered the temperature around the globe for a couple of years. Not TEOWAWKI – people still worked, people still bought food, money still worked, it was over in a couple of years and everyone went back to normal.
Earth changes – 1859 Carrington event with massive solar flare – Not TEOWAWKI then – people still worked, people still bought food, money still worked, it was over in a couple of years and everyone went back to normal. Could lead to TEOWAWKI today due to your reliance on the electrical grid for everything – food, water, commo, manufacturing, transport
Earth changes – Toba super volcano exploded 60,000 years ago and the effects were global, lasted more than 5 years, and left only about 10,000 human survivors on Earth. TEOWAWKI then and TEOWAWKI now.
A Civil War could lead to TEOWAWKI depending on the tactics and outcome. I answered that in more detail further down, so I and will copy and paste my comment here:
Civil war caused by the malfeasance in DC could qualify, depending on how bad it got, especially when saboteurs crashed the grid, stopping JIT supply shipments, banking, and water purification. NYC had less than a million people during the Civil War, now they’re over 8 million. Extrapolate that across the country, include the suburbs, and factor in the people with no food or water, and any modern civil war could lead to a 50% +/- death rate and the country would never recover. As the U.S. and the ‘world reserve currency’ crashed, then other economies would crash, wars would start, and we could be in a TEOTWAWKI = Mad Max event.
James said “By your definition teotwawki will probably never happen if it does we will all be dead no matter what we do know.”
By my definition, TEOTWAWKI will definitely happen (Carrington, global Black Plague/Ebola type pandemic, Super Volcano, Large Meteor, Nuclear War) and 30%-95% of the human population will not survive. That’s why it’s called ‘the END of the WORLD as we KNOW it’ and not ‘Sh*t Hitting the Fan’. That’s why we prep, to be the 5%-70% who do survive.
I’d say yes, I think the term TEOTWAWKI has to be a total Mad Max type event. Here’s why:
First look at what the acronym stands for. It’s obviously a two parter.
1. The End Of The World
2. As We Know It
To me the end of the world is a pretty all consuming total world wide event. It also implies very long lasting or permanent or it would be called ‘A Really Bad Period Of The World” right? ‘As we know it’ really just throws opinion into the mix.
Second you look at standard usage. I can’t say that I’ve seen this expression used outside very many prep sites. When it is used though it typically refers to something massive if not global. Localized survivable events seem to always get referred to as SHTF events.
Unfortunately, the acronym is vague and easily subject to interpretation.
In my interpretation of it, it has not ever happened in the course of human history yet. I do not see it as an event that has much of a chance of survival no mater how much you are ‘prepared’.
Groundhog,
“it has not ever happened in the course of human history yet.”
So you would not consider anything that has ever happened in history to qualify as a TEOTWAWKI event? Even with all the disasters and wide-spread death that has happened over the last 2,000+ years. WOW!
Unfortunately, as I said, the acronym is vague and widely interpreted. And yes, that’s how I interpret it. There are many events that even entire people groups could consider the end of the world as they knew it.. I’m just basing my understanding on the usage I’ve seen of it. There probably ought to be a more specific term for how I envision it.
Groundhog,
I clicked on your name, got your blog and nearly ran out of the room when I saw that photo. I am too afraid to go back and read the accompanying article, what on earth (assuming it’s from this planet) is that?
I’d hazard a guess but they would, most likely, get deleted.
Darn it, Jason. You got me curious and so I took a look too. Now I’ve lost my appetite. Thanks a lot.
JMD,
It’s been a couple of days, I haven’t eaten & the nightmares continue …
Jason,
Not sure, I wouldn’t eat it either! ;)
i read your profile on your blog. occupation technology.do you live in the city of dell?ive been to several rot rallys there.
bctruck, hate to ask but what is a “rot” rally? Does it have anything to do with that lovely photo on Groundhog’s Blog?
ROT = republic of texas. motorcycle rally in austin.
No, TEOTWAWKI could be a lesser event such as described above. The key words are as we know it an economic collapse would be the end of the world as we now know it. But it does not have to be the end of the world or a mad max.
Heck the end of the world as we know it could be an event such as the government declaring martial law across the U.S. that would be the end of the world as we know it.
Wow, complicated! Mad Max but with other possibilities too such as an end to say our 1st,2nd amendment rights.
I vote No.
Even if there were a Mad Max scenario it would be localized. If it were a global event, it would simply be the end of the world.
No, TEOTWAWKI could be a lesser event such as described above. “As we know it” could mean anything dramatically altering our world (or nation) as we know it.
M.D. – TEOTWAYKI (the end of the world as you know it) that is a great new term I hope it catches on.
Literally, it can be a lesser event. If Coca-cola becomes unavailable, it’s the end of the world “as we know it”, ie the world which included Coke. However, we use the term to indicate a greater, life changing, scenario.
Cokes would be the end of my world that is for sure. LOL
I think it has to be a Mad Max type of thing. Something that is truly the end of the world for some people, and for anyone still alive, life is very different from what they have always known.
S can HTF without being TEOTWAWKI.
Teotwawki,all out Mad Max type event! Collapse of Govt and infrastructure.Pole shifts on 2012,Comet smashes earth,Global famine,Massive EMP fryes north America,NWO finally gets a virus that kills millions ,Aliens land taking over Earth, Obama calls in U.N. troops to quell an uprising.Thats teotwaki !!!
China
III
No. Teot needs only be something that decisively accomplishes the task of ending the world as “we” know it. Katrina was a shtf situation. In order for the “we” to be realized, the situation needs to be to such a degree that it could possibly become a post/pre historical event. In reality, the civil war, depression, and both world wars would prob be considered teot historical events. If in doubt, read some history of the “reconstruction” post-civil war.
I dO believe that teot should be given levels like a tornado. Levels 1 through 5. Level five being madmax and level one being regional Katrina situations. All of this is only opinion and I certainly don’t mean to come across as any kind of expert. Thanks.
i live in louisiana,and there are displaced people who will never go back because the homes they lived in where completly destroyed(by katrina). it is the end of the world as they new it. this is going require i put my thinking cap on,,,,,,,,,,,now where did i put it?
Tastes great! Less filling …
I Vote for:
TEOTWAITISBDWSISATLAMIVWILIMPUBWCORM
The End Of The World As I Think It Should Be Defined Where Stealing Is Still Against The Law And Morality Is Valued While I Live In My Personal Unrealistic Bubble Without Christine Or Ranger Man.
I think that about covers my thoughts on the subject.
All unappreciated humor aside – “as we know it” is too broad and can encompass everything from Mad Max to a teenager getting a license to drive and quite frankly as a passenger, the latter is far more scary than any economic meltdown.
My vote is No to the general term and Yes to MD’s version – as you know it.
There may not be any event but a continuing melt down of western civilization which will not turn around until a great leader comes to rally the people, maybe the Return of Jesus for all I know. Otherwise it could continue to melt until we do have a Mad Max situation. Doesn’t have that far to go really.
The tendency is to think of TEO as a Mad Max scenario but in a real sense TEO has already happened albeit at a rather slow pace. what would be worse is a plunge back into the dark ages where there is just enough structure to keep the peasants in their place. It could go several different ways. I’m only able to rely on the scriptural admonition that Heat and Cold, seedtime and harvest will continue to the end.
I think it will be a slow, inexorable, meltdown. I say this because we have a western Billionaire (yes, Billionaire) fighting local officials to build multi-million dollar homes on some Lake Michigan frontage. In my opinion we would be better off being giving it to the county or the state for expanding the parks while we still are able. I guess the Billionaire thinks it will be business as usual.
I love state parks, but hey, the poor Billionaires gotta live somewhere.
Yes to Mad Max. I also want to note that I believe everybody in a Mad Max situation will be prone to taking something that is not considered theirs, or will at least do something illegal. Even if it is a tiny object it is still stealing. Anyone who thinks they will never do so needs to get off the armchair and go push the limits of survival and learn what real exposure, hunger and thirst are. For example, shooting game out of season or trespassing through someone’s field to avoid roads. Both are illegal. Or another example…an epidemic has killed off a huge portion of the population and you have run out of food to feed a loved one. Are you going to say with a straight face that you will not take from an abandoned field or house? Stealing is stealing, and everybody has the potential to do so when pushed past the limits.
If it is truely abandoned (not just unwatched), it is not stealing to take it. It’s called salvaging. I, and most laws don’t consider salvaging wrong. And crossing private land is only illegal if it’s posted no trespassing. And yes, I’d steal to keep from watching my children die. I might even kill. That’s why I prepare, so I don’t have to.
I’m no legal expert, but if a house/food has no owner or heirs because they are now dead, how can taking such food be stealing?
For something to be illegal, there must be a law that forbids it, and laws need a source (such as government). If there is no government to make and enforce laws (such as in a Mad Max scenario), then nothing is illegal.
This certainly doesn’t mean that it won’t still be immoral to take things that belong to others, nor does it mean that people will simply allow their possessions to be taken since there is no law against it. Law will be formed locally, at the individual, family, clan or community level, and may be informal or improvised. However, many laws that currently exist, such as hunting regulations, will likely become null and void.
No, a disaster can take many, many forms some worse than others. Here in Ohio, 2 years ago we had a region wide windstorm that knocked out the power for a couple weeks in my area and their was more car accidents than any real crime. But then their was also Katrnia. Unless someone has a real crystal ball, it’s anybody’s guess what will be “THE” event that changes a civillization.
Rifleman 336
Any long term disruption of life as we know it. Great depression, etc.
Nope it could be a lesser Major event like the world economy falls apart in total RUIN. That would be followed by Governments around the world falling apart one after another. I’d say it then would be a domino effect. Then TEOTWAWKI. With this type of situation its up to each individual to determine when to pull the plug and Bug Out.
Yes it is the end as we know. The world is changing very fast for the worst. Ancient literature speaks of it clearly. O Jia Li
No. I don’t even think TEOTWAWKI necessarily has to imply something negative. There are major events that happen from time to time that definitely change the world as we know it permanently. The internet is a great example. It completely revolutionized the way people interact with each other, and hence how the world works, and it would be VERY difficult for many people now-a-days to envision their lives without it. Another example of something that could do the same in the future would be nuclear fusion… what if we found an economical way to use that as an energy source? The world as we know it would be forever changed, but it wouldn’t be a calamity.
I think TEOTWAWKI can mean anything that will make us re-evaluate our day to day lives, and as such is something we should think about and prepare for. Preparing could mean storing food or whatever else for your particular choice of disaster, or it could be planning on how to capitalize on a positive TEOTWAWKI in someway. This is just my opinion of course, and the prepper/survivalist community is certainly full of people who choose to look on the darker side of things, which is their choice/opinion, and I respect that. But if someone randomly asked me to come up with a TEOTWAWKI scenario, I would feel at liberty to discuss anything from Peak Oil to space colonization, nuclear winter to cars that can run on a babies laughter. Hell, isn’t discovering prepping/survivalism sort of a personal TEOTWAWKI? I know once I figured out what it was all about, the way I looked at world changed forever… bringing about the end of the world as I knew it. Perhaps TEOTWAWKI should be preceded by what you’re talking about. Like “SHTF TEOTWAWKI” or “positive TEOTWAWKI.” I also like Creekmore’s suggestion of “TEOTWAYKI.”
Excellent points. I was planning on making the same point about the advent of the internet as a TEOTWAWKI event. Not a bad event, but a fundamental and permanent transformation of the world as we know it.
Simply put, NO.
TEOTWAWKI depends on who WE are. The Roman Republic and Empire lasted more than a millennium and controlled most of what was then the known world. TEOTWAWKI came to them, although Europe as a whole did finally recover. Here in Ohio I have encountered refugees from Katrina who have moved here to start a new life. Clearly their old life has ended, but that doesn’t mean Mad Max is at the door. In fact, I think the Roman example shows us that except for regional Mad Max style conflicts, life in some new incarnation will continue. There is a large Amish population in my area, and what would be a major TEOTWAWKI situation (extended loss of power, fuel, and food delivery) would be not much more than an inconvenience to that population.
I suspect those that are waiting in their cave for the Mad Max situation are probably going to be disappointed like so many other doomsayers before them
Bad times may be coming, but you’ll have to define this one as it affects you.
Even Mad Max had cars and gasoline….
Either way, “Mad Max” or “recoverable major event”, PREPARATION is necessary for readers like us to survive! Its a sure bet that the “recoverable major event” will occur, and the “Mad Max” scenario is certainly well within the realm of possibility. I would say I’m a “hope for the best, prepare for the worst” type.
No, TEOTWAWKI can be a lesser event than the total Mas Max event such as an economic collapse like the one in the 1930′s. If you don’t believe this was an TEOTWAWKI event you need to talk to my grandfather who lived through it. He (and many many others) went from living on a farm to being homeless and starving. Anyone who thinks this does not measure up to the definition or TEOTWAWKI needs to live it their mind would change quickly.
I vote for somewhere in between. This could be the start of another depression, but not Mad Max at least here in the US. I do have a shotgun at the front door, which only started a couple of years ago. I am hoping for the best.
•Yes, I think the term TEOTWAWKI has to be a total Mad Max type event.
The END of the world part is way I think this way.
I vote yes, because any type of no can lead to yes. Once the plastic and entitlements stop, it will turn into a big time yes situation. It will be a long down hill slide with even a few uphill spikes but once it starts, there’s no stopping it.
No, TEOTWAWKI could be a lesser event such as described above. I believe this because there are some that will be as those described in the first paragraph and others that will definitely not commit to chaos, no law, etc. There are a variety of people in the world, not all of them have the same thoughts, feelings and lives, and therefore I believe that what happens in regards to people and what they do will vary. While one person may be greedy another may be giving. While one person may be angry another person may be happy. While others may be stubborn there may be others that are helpful. Chaos is created when governments have overspent and committed corrupt actions which negatively affect their citizens lives thus causing the citizens to turn to rioting and other actions against their government. Chaos could be to some that what they set out to do is not going right and when things do not go the way that they have intended they believe that things are upset, in chaos. I no longer wonder what Henry Kissinger meant when he said something in regards to the world order or a return to chaos. There is no chaos but what is created. Chaos cannot be created without help.
YES, That’s thats the most understood meaning for us preppers. Every once ina blue moon I see it used for a less than Mad Max event but not very often.
No.
It won’t be quite as bad as Mad Max movies…
But it will have serious and adverse effects on everyone.
Yes, I think the term TEOTWAWKI has to be a total Mad Max type event
Any of the partial colapse scenarios would quickly reach a tipping point that would preclude us from any type of real security. Many.I feel would take advantage of the vacuum and compensate for their lack of preparedness by looting and stealing. I feel it would take 5-7 years to regain control, and then with much less freedom. Unless of course we completely lose the grid….
Even something quite catastrophic could lead to different results in different places. One place may retain a lot of civilization while another might fall to complete disorder and inhumanity. This is a very big country, and a very big world. What happens in NYC will surely be different than Lovelock Nev.
Severe food shortages will lead to mass starvation in large cities but not be such a hardship in distant rural farming communities. No electricity will cause havoc in Kansas City and be just a complaint sixty miles south in the rural towns.
This could be a long-standing collapse of the world economy including pandemic and natural disasters, and yet we will have pockets where civility and sufficient supplies persist.
I concur. When Katrina (for example) is mentioned, it seems that we all think about the chaos in New Orleans. Keep in mind that just to the east, both Mississippi and Alabama were hit by the same storm, and the results were quite different. The New Orlans mayor failed to mobilize existing resources (like transit buses) to evacuate the residents. The Louisiana govenor waved off the Federal help and then pointed fingers and complained that FEMA was late in helping. Go figure. OTOH, the governmet and citizens of MS and AL were accustomed to doing for themselves, and not waiting for a handout. Thnings in those states went significantly better and if you look at the difference in the progress of the recovery since then, significantly different.
I think associating with go getters and doers, instead of those who are helpless and want done for them, will be a significant step in getting yourself into a good place for any future TEOTWAWKI situation.
I vote no it does not have to be a total mad max event but it would have to be global in nature.
I vote yes, the part AS WE KNOW IT to me means grid gone, total chaos, everyone is left to fend for themselves. Permanent changes requiring a whole new set of day to day priorities.
j.r. guerra in s. tx. – the as we know it part could mean any change that has a major effect on our lives as a whole but it does not have to be a total mad max thing or even a grid down event it could be something like drastic governmental policy changes.
Torn. Comes down to symantics I guess. ‘We’ being plural. My world seemed to end when I was unemployed for 15 months. But that affected few other people but my family. Even the Great Depression failed to affect everyone. The very rich were inconvienced at most and the very poor didn’t really notice it.
I think that the road we are on is leading to a very bad place. I truly believe that our government will attempt at some point to punish us for failing to pay more in taxes by cutting services. Fire Depts, Police depts will be cut so that ‘we’ feel the pain. Libraries and teachers not so many cuts, course those professions tend to be more liberal.
I think that after SHTF in local areas, Red States, a full blown TEOTWAWKI will result in the division of the USA into two or more new countries.
YMMV.
Lorenzo Anabasis Poe
I like your take, Lorenzo, and certainly wouldn’t argue your logic. It’s a possiblility that we might see a Balkinization of the US given our political and ethnic makeup, but we might just see an Argentina-like meltdown as well. I think most of us on this blog have underestimated the power and pervasiveness of our government, and we will find it has way more tenacity than what we give it credit.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see a much more aggressive responce from government than what many here and at other prepping blogs expect. We might even see our government arm and support militia groups to enforce its edicts. Think Darfur here. Just a thought, but we should be prepared to band together for our own safety. The Golden Horde is more likely to be armed irregulars doing the government’s dirty work than poor people searching trash cans looking for excess food. That’s my take. Is that TEOTWAWKI? Yep.
yes
I think it would be a total societal breakdown. Economy, Rule of Law, etc. I suppose that is why SHTF means exactly what it does, because everyone can have their own SHTF without the rest of the world around them falling apart. A transformer on a pole blew out the other night and my neighborhood had our own SHTF. On the flip side, I suppose that if there were economic collapse, and the S#!% really did hit the fan, and there was nationwide martial law, etc., with no end in sight, could that be considered TEOTWAWKI or is it still isolated to a “change?”
No, TEOTWAWKI could be a lesser event such as described above. Such as Katrina in the affected areas. Their world certainly changed for the worse and not just for a day or two. Survival became the number #1 item on their list. Super inflation, riots, disease, or any number of other even locally related events could put you and your family in this predicament! What would (will) you do?
I vote no. why? because i can imagine our political system succeeding in turning totally facist as it is headed now. but i also believe it does not really matter. is a theory called the HAB that claims that every 10,000 to 12,000 years the planet rebalances itself. moving the ice weight of the poles to the equator. that is happening now if you look about. the poles are shifting, North pole or axis is already a long way from where it was over or in the Canadian Arctic. is now at last report over in Russian Siberia. south pole is likewise moving. not the weather changes as the polar shift alters the ocean currents and the jet streams that are natural processes that transfer heat from the equator to the polar regions and back again. change their pattern and you change the weather as well as the planets balance. note huge chunks of glaciers breaking off greenland and antarctica. note the stange weather patterns we have now. the earth quakes all over the world. the droughts and in other places the floods. the hurricanes. you name it. is happening now. according to Albert Einstein it is a natural part of planetary physics. what will happen? normal it seems is the extermination of most land based life and much sea life. Assminof predicted 95 to 99% of the human population will not survive it. If anyone cares to learn simply go to HAB theory on the search engine on your computer. So if it is proved true it will be so much more then a simlpe mad max scenerio. and at the same time so much less because people are not part of the equation in a flip at all.
No, But I seriously think it will be TEOATHAC.
So many won’t have a clue when it is starting until it is in full swing.
Food will run out, chaos will be there, martial law will be in the larger cities.
Fuel will be such a problem that only military and Homeland Security will have it, mabe the larger police forces in the cities.
The goverment will try to control so much in so many areas they will find out that they are creating a problem that they cannot control.
Then it will fall apart even more and the real TEOATHAC will begin, They will then back off and come back in later to clean up the mess and take back control.
Good Luck to ALL.
PREPARE FOR THE WORST AND PRAY FOR THE BEST
Old School– You don’t think it’s already started? I think all we need is another Katrina, or two such events in close order, to realize we’re already well down that path. The flooding going on NOW in so many areas needs only a good earthquake in Cali. for the Gov to step in to take from the rich with no compensation and give to the poor with no expectation they work for it. The processes are already in place and stepping up. Now the senate has a bill in the works to license and restrict who can grow food. It will be under the auspices of Homeland Security, not the dept. of Agriculture. The Gestapo are already out there, my friend.
Yes, I personally do think it has started but, I think that it hasn’t got bad enough for many others to see it. Some of my family still don’t see it. I have two that do and five who don’t. I get some weird answers when I talk to them and I wonder where they get their ideas from.
I have been prepping for awhile and adding more. I know it is here, just when it gets ugly is the question.
PREPARE FOR THE WORST AND PRAY FOR THE BEST
I tend to view the SHTF as a precurssor to TEOTWAWKI… The SHTF is the wake-up call to try and right the sinking ship… About where we are now in fact. I tend to view the SHTF as TEOTWAWKI on a personal level… ie when the SHTF for a large number of people in a localized area it permanently alters the way of life in those communities – Katrina, collapse of principal employers – too many of them and it may trigger TEOTWAWKI.
My concern is the large number of trained military, with multiple tours under their beltd, that are due to soon be returning home – they and their families all need support, employment, education/training, medical aid, etc… and I am not sure that the infrastructure exists to reabsorb them.
I really like Kris K’s addition of TEOATHAC – “The End of All Things Holy and Civilized”
I feel TEOTWAWKI should represent a MAD MAX type situation.
Reason – The End of the World as “WE” Know It represent not just one person – I consider the WE as US – the few, the proud, the vast majority.
TSHTF can happen to a family, a community. However TEOTWAWKI represents a vast large population – and in the acronym the word WORLD is used – again identifying a huge area.
Rourke
yes Has to be huge
That’s a tough one to decide on. But I believe it means a drastic change in most people’s lives. Not the normal day to day “go to work-come home-fight the traffic,etc” thing. Just getting majority of the people to having to start to grow their own food would mean a drastic change to our world as we, at this time, know it.
I’m taking the “TEOTWAWKI” to mean the end of our current daily lives. The present life, not anything that has happened in the past. Most of us living now have never gone through truly catastrophic changes, other than perhaps Katrina or some other ISOLATED disasters that did not really affect most of the country or even the rest of the world. But even those catastrophes did not change peoples lives on a major scale, they still looked and hopefully found a job and started all over again doing probably the same things with minor changes.
So, I’m voting NO…. TEOTWAWKI could mean something less than Mad Max etc…
I was never sure what all those letters meant: so I have always preferred SHTF.
Argentina is having its own personal Great Depression. I tend not to include even really bad economic events if there is not a serious change in society structure.
The Nazi takeover of Europe was arguably closer to a revolutionary change, and is an understudied (by survivalist types) event. That it eventually snowballed into the ~60 million deaths of WW2 and the extended “cold-war” makes it particularly appropriate.
But although all these events are a very great change, they were not “The End”.
For the TEOTWAWKI, I would normally think of an event or series of events that caused a breakdown, and chaos at ALL Levels of society, and lasting for a generation. I would say that the Great Depression was not universally chaotic enough, and Argentina has not lasted long enough.
With the exception of nuclear war scenarios, I actually do not believe that the TEOTWAWKI will be as obviously global-universal as that portrayed in Mad Max. Some areas not having as much trouble as others, there will always be some propping up of capacity in the troubled areas by trade with the less affected areas. Somewhat similar to the way that Native American tribes obtained horses and guns from the Europeans.
So I set the phrase some what short of Mad Max, but still relatively close: Steven Amsterdam’s very recent, “Things We Didn’t See Coming” http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0307378500/ref=oss_product does a very good job of exploring this odd “uneven” collapse. It is a very different TEOTWAWKI.
No, This term could be anywhere from a temporary power outage, flood or severe strom to the total Mad Max society. The term says the end of the world as WE know it.
Yes.
It would be a Mad Max type of life. Otherwise it is a SHTF scenario.
Personally I believe that TEOTWAWKI (with the emphasis on the “as we know it” part ) does not have to be a Mad Max scenario but simply an end to things the way they are now. So my vote is NO.
Hmmmm,don’t think it matters.Reminds me of a chicken arguing about if he is going to be fried or baked.
If you get enought smaller scenarios it will snowball to a mad max kind of thing.
People will do anything to survive and when they see they are loseing what they think of has thier lives.Well,anybody with more is going to be open season.
No it certainly doesn’t have to be Mad Max type, but any thing that would disrupt how most people live. Loss of electric, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, and disaster in the making would qualify. Like no transportation of goods across the US, Many Banks failing there are a lot of things that could possibly fall into this category.
At first I would have said No… but I have been thinking about an earlier post by Jack… I like the idea of TEOTWAWKI and SHTF being the two defining terms… One being Mad Max and the other is anything less.
So, Yes, TEOTWAWKI would be Mad Max….
SHTF would be depressions, martial law, rationing, personal bankruptcy, etc that is not a result of a world changing event and would be expected to have a percieved end or solution.
Granted. if peak oil were to cause us to lose our industrial base and return to pre-1900′s lifestyles, some would call that TEOTWAWKI… while others would call it SHTF…. and others would just call it “Great”….
Frankly, if my lifestyle changes in a major way, it’s TEOTWAWKI, whether it’s Mad Max or Mad Obama. It could be a worldwide cataclysm, but it could just be a meltdown of the US economy that would drive all of us into the bunkers or behind the walls of our farms/homes. How big of a difference would it make to you locally if it were one of the other?? An EMP attack on the US would affect the US and leave the rest of the world alone (for a while at least), but you and I would be transported back to 1870. Worldwide, no, but just as devastating.
Lesser event.
The changes are already happening.
Let’s go straight to the word of God.
Jesus said:
“For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Mat 24:21)
So, Mad Max to the nth degree.
No doubt!
No. “As we know it” qualifies it to mean something totally foreign to us. An economic collapse and martial law with very little food available would suffice. You know the fools on the hill are going to use force on the citizens when their own asses are on the line. I have seen the documentary of how many facilities of maximum protection with long supplies of food and servants have been created for the “elite” who supposedly serve(sic) the populace. I’m guessing quite a few who aren’t on the list are going to want in and will be dealt with harshly. No matter how isolated someone is, they almost always depend on something from the world where there is still a delivery system. The lack of food, clothing and housing always qualifies for whomever it’s happening to. To get a good feel, read the Grapes of Wrath. Every person except for a few very rich people were affected to a great degree. It doesn’t take many days with an empty stomach to change anyone’s view of what’s bad and what’s not. I suppose I would be less affected living on a farm than others but would still miss fuel, foods I can’t grow and communication not to mention entertainment. I can and have lived without tv, didn’t hurt me a bit but I did have books. With the addition of a windmill things wouldn’t be nearly so bad as city dwellers would suffer through. It’s tough to have to build a barn for farm animals though and find mules to plow instead of tractors and pick-ups. I have no illusion of it being a picnic even with land and livestock but I suspect barring a pandemic we’d make it although having lived for over six decades puts us as decidedly in a worse spot. If I were twenty and this happened, I’d have that good body to use to create things I can no longer physically do. I wouldn’t miss my iphone since I don’t have one. Most definitely, I’d miss fuel more than anything. I can stay warm burning wood but the difference between an axe and a chainsaw is a world changing event for someone my age. Most people aren’t even speaking of putting back medical supplies but Ringers solution and a variety of syringes and needles along with antibiotics and a few surgical tools as well as the ability to use them can’t be stressed enough. The best body in the world is worthless if someone can’t sew up a sliced artery or intubate someone with an air passage problem. Believe it or not, a cow can kick you to the moon. I’ve been on the receiving end and decades later still suffer from it.
It could be stated as:
“The End of,”
“the world as we know it”
And that might not be a bad thing. The world, as at least *I* know it, in the last decade or so has been pretty much a shithole. Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, political corruption, Courts run amok, criminals with more rights than victims, sleaze, sex, violence and mindless reality shows on TV rotting our brains, constant, insistent, never ending COMMERCIALS coming at you from radio, tv, newspapers, magazines, billboards, SPAM email, text messages etc. Scammers trying to rip you off at every turn on eBay, Craigslist, or as fake charities. Greedy bankers, wall street vultures, Fannie Mae, Freddy MAC debacles..
Then, throw in the greedy OUTSOURCING of American jobs to foreign countries, the downsizing/rightsizing and curtailment of pension benefits, the export of our economy to China and Indai, the bullshit song and dance to get a job now if you’re not a minority (I’m part of a new minority – FOWG – fat old white guys). The endless whine of “Political Correctness” – the JIHAD going on in our country that most Christians don’t even realize…
I could rant on more, but I’m sure some of you get my drift. Sometimes it’s hard to think that change could make things worse. I’m about ready to bug out to my BOL and wait until the stink goes away. I’ve had about enough of this senseless world we live in.
TEOTWAWKI might turn into TWAWWITB “The world as we WANT it to be”
Sorry for the diatribe. It’s been a long, tough week.
No – it refers to substantial deviation from current (past) norm – with little or no likelihood of returning to it.
Yes, I think it would be like a “Mad Max” type of event. Law & order will have ceased to exist, no fuel, no groceries, lootings, shootings, in general – chaos. Hospitals will be non-existent, no medicine, no doctors – nothing. Modern man (and woman) will be left to their own devices. It will be the law of the jungle with only the strong surviving. Those who have planned well will live a little longer than those who haven’t. And those who have survivalist type skills and planned will live even longer that those who have just planned but have no common sense of what to do with what they’ve stored up. Money will be useless and bartering will be the exchange medium of the day.
I picture a total mad max thunderdome type situation. Maybe a little less Mel Gibson, but I’d so have Tina Turner hair.
No it can be as minor as losing a job and not being able to find a new one. As I am experiencing now.
Any loss of communications capabilities to include loss of electricity over a wide area, say several hundred miles in diameter, for whatever reason (earthquake, EMP, Solar Plasma Flare, Ice Storm, Hurricane) will result in
TEOTWAWKI. That is because little is kept in inventory due to “just in time” shipping” and the few food and fuel resources will be quickly drained and not replenished. Without communications or electricity the “world as we know it” will not function. Even if FEMA and outside help form private relief agencies does comein, they will not eliminate the need for one to be self-sufficient.
Think about how one sells items without electricity and how one transmaits money when the banks all will be closed. Nothing in the definition has to mean a permanent or even long-lasting situation. Other parts of the nation might still be functioning, but if there is no electricity or communications where you live, it is, for you: TEOTWAWKI.
What part of “The End Of The World” didn’t you all get? We aren’t talking about an end of economic stability, or the end of American Cultural Dominance, we’re talking about a cataclysmic event that alters the entire world in a profound way, hence, “the end of the world as we know it”. Any personal tragedy would dramatically alter your world and your reality, the death of a spouse or child, the loss of a job, a serious injury, but it’s not an end of the world event, nor even a survival type event in most cases.
Any kind of significantly bad event that we may eventually recover from is a SHTF event. TEOTWAWKI is the apocalypse for everybody everywhere.
Matt Groom – What part of as we know it don’t you get? If it’s the end of the world as you think we will all be dead and the earth gone. Think about it. The key words are as we know it.
You do know that if it affects the US, that it affects the World, right?
Someone earlier said that the Spanish flu in 1918 didn’t bring TEOTWAWKI because the money still worked. I think that that sums it up nicely. But see, back then coins were silver, and greenbacks were backed by specie not vague promises. The “World’s” wealth is measured in $ not in pounds, or Euros, or Riyals, or Bolivars, or Yen. Some people don’t like it that the universe is centered in the US but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t.
When Hurricane Floyd hit the eastern US in the 90s it took out the ATMs in 75% of the US. When Katrina hit the Gulf Coast my Dad was traveling and his credit card was rejected in several locations because the bank headquarters was wiped out. Communication failure will be the tipping point. Note how when comms with one area or lost, airports somewhere else shut down. The local airports are linked to GHWBI by fiberoptic cable along the interstate. When Houston lost power the airport in NOLA shut down.
Matt, losing a job is the end of the world as I know it. It doesn’t affect you any more than a coup in Africa but it sure sucks for those people. As I know it was a secure career and steady income. Now I fear losing my house, healthcare, security and future. Believe me it is the end of my comfy world as I knew it.
Various countries of the world have undergone serious economic disasters in the past and and governments have have toppled. Russia having food riots and switching from monarchy to communism is one of many example as would be the French revolution. During the actual revolution it would be TEOTWAWKI but sooner or later law and order was established, not necessarily the type we Americans would appreciate. I guess Somalia would have the closest thing to ongoing TEOTWAWKI currently, not counting Iraq and Afghanistan. Unless the US has another war between the states, I can only imagine unprecedented natural disaster or invasion could cause TEOTWAWKI, the later being when everyone tries to move north due to unprecedented heat, drought and crop failure. Our southern boarders will be vulnerable but not as much as Canada’s and none of our hideouts would be worth much unless they were in Alaska or Canada or Maine.
Shouldn’t the emphasis be on the “The End”? An economic crisis can be recovered from, we’ll always find ways to exchange goods for services since it is in our nature. I vote Mad Max since it has to be a complete termination of what we are used to in our daily lives to qualify as TEOTWAWKI
I’ve been accused of being a fatalist for my prepping activity, but I see it as being an optimist because I intend to survive and have some hope for my future. But I do not think my life will be the same as it is today. I just choose to plan and prepare for things out of my immediate control. That being said, any significant and lasting changes in business-as-usual for a large portion of our society can certainly be considered as a TEOTWAWKI scenario. So, no. But Toto won’t be in Kansas anymore!
I vote YES. I also agree with TMM, that we may have to consider SHTF as a lesser of the evils that may come to past. A MAD MAX scenerio would be a NUCLEAR catastrophi. Anything else is a survival scenerio for the rest. If our politicle parties really screw things up then perhaps we should consider,
TEOTWIAAWKI ( the end of the world in America as we know it ) I pray that all of our preperation will never have to be used.
GOD BLESS US ALL and this great country.
Read “One Second After” or “Patriots” and you see that TEOTWAWKI could encompass a wide range of scenarios. Heck, civil war caused by the malfeasance in DC would qualify.
How were the situations in “One Second After” or “Patriots” that different from “Mad Max”?
All three had no central government, no printed money, no electrical grid, no outside fuel sources, it effected everyone in their known world, everyone carried guns, anyone who didn’t have stored food starved, all the groups fought wars to defend themselves from an attacking outside groups, and there was no end in sight for their situation. Sounds like TEOTWAWKI = Mad Max to me.
Civil war caused by the malfeasance in DC could qualify, depending on how bad it got, especially when saboteurs crashed the grid, stopping JIT supply shipments, banking, and water purification. NYC had less than a million people during the Civil War, now they’re over 8 million. Extrapolate that across the country, include the suburbs, and factor in the people with no food or water, and any modern civil war could lead to a 50% +/- death rate and the country would never recover. As the U.S. and the ‘world reserve currency’ crashed, then other economies would crash, wars would start, and we could be in a TEOTWAWKI = Mad Max event.
We may already be set for the end of the world as we know it. Literally, it would be different for each culture. How much different would it be if you lived in a cave in Afghanistan and were reduced to a smaller cave?
For me it would mean no more libraries, cars to drive, easily purchased food, and of course the Internet now that we’ve become dependent on that as well. Even a loss of cable or satellite would be potential candidates for disaster. Imagine no cell phones or any phones.
The Mad Max scenario is just a variant of such a life changing scenario no matter how much some of us might dream that this is the only one. If a pandemic reduces the world population there may not be a need for territorial battles usually associated with wars.
Before all is over, the Mad Max thing might just be a diversion to pass the time waiting for the end of humanity.
I vote no.
To me, TEOTWAWKI means the rules have changed and all bets are off. That doesn’t have to mean Mad Max. Argentina is an excellent example. I really wonder what’s going to happen when bribing cops becomes commonplace in my city.
No.
The end of the world as we know it.
The end of the world as I know it.
as my family knows it, etc.
My world has ended many times. From having to leave my grandparents home to going to my parents house. Being short on food, clothes, surviving as best I could.
My world ended when when I threw out my husband and had to raise children by myself. This was seriously bad. Yes, I scrounged the dumpsters behind stores, washed clothes by hand in the kitchen sink. And yes, this was the end of the world for me. And my kids.
My world ended when I had to move from my home to a different part of the country. We lost everything and everyone we knew and loved. We brought very little with us. One pick up with the dogs and cat. Change of clothes. Some food and blankets. The world had ended for us.
My world ended when my daughter and grand kids had to move in with us to survive. Not that they moved in with us, but why and what we went through to get them here. This new world is frugal to the extreme, frightening, demanding. And worth every bit of effort it takes to make it work for all of us.
The end of my world. As we knew it.
Now we have some food stored, blankets, and other things needed to survive. I don’t know what the political or monetary world will do, I am sure it wont benefit me or us, my family.
To me the end of the world as I know it, is when there is a major disaster that adversely affects me or mine. The world I used to know included weekly shopping trips for groceries. A choice of what to buy, and how many. Choices. We are out of many choices, that world of options is gone. It ended. My world ended. That was the end of the world for me as I knew it.
We survive now. And hope for better for the kids moved back in with us.
My old world ended. We have a new one now. No tv, no car payments, car is over twenty years old. All the clothes are from the thrift store. My world of being able to buy new clothes ended years ago.
My world is very small. It is my family. The end of the world for us was unemployment. No utilities. No food buying, no new anything for years, including now. The end of the world was living under a tree for two years.
The end of the world to me is something that ends the world I currently enjoy. Be that world the ability to go to the library weekly, the option to buy new clothes, the choice of having a garden. No, these are not little nothings that do not effect my world, these were major changes for me.
NO, the end of the world is personal for me. It is what hinders or harms my family. Something hitting the fan is an inconvenience. Temporary. Small changes.
End of the world is here to stay. It is not a voluntary choice.
I wish I could say this better. The end of the world is a dramatic, huge change. Not moving from east coast to west coast because you want to. it is a traumatic, life altering no going back change.
It is where I draw the line and take a stand. That is the end of the world for me.
It is t
Could be a lesser event, but I’m ready for the big one!
I vote no, TEOTWAWKI could be anything that changes our day to day “normal” life in a very significant way. We had two hurricanes within 2 months in 2004 and that was SHTF but if things never opened back up, gas pumps never refilled, stores never restocked, electric lines never repaired, then that would lead to TEOWAWKI for our locality.
I tend to think of TEOTWAWKI as the “One Second After” scenario and for the other, less severe scenarios as SHTF.
My answer is in 2 parts: One for just the USA, and one for the rest of the world.
First, TEOTWAWKI, American style. We are used to lots of food, lots of electronics, lots of conveniences, lots of comfort; that is our world. I agree that something like 9/11, or Katrina, or the BP mess, or even unemployment (U6) is a SHTF event, just like most of the rest of the fairly localized disasters we’ve endured over the last few years. If the entire grid went down for longer than just a few months, or there was a Black Death pandemic, or all America’s crops failed for years in a row, or our economy went Weimar, or whatever, for Americans it would be the end of the world as we know it. Many Americans would end up living in third world conditions, permanently. So, no, not Mad Max, but definitely TEOTWAWKI.
On the other hand, if by definition TEOTWAWKI has to apply equally to the entire WORLD, then that is another story. By that definition, only an ELE would qualify, because as one of the other posters commented, if you are living in a cave in Afghanistan and you end up moving to a smaller cave, is it really the end of the world? So by that definition, yes, TEOTWATKI would have to be Mad Max or worse.
Personally, I am prepping for TEOTWAWKI, American style, which amounts to a basic 1930′s rural lifestyle. So I guess that makes my final answer: No.
I vote NO. Although a “Mad Max” event would definitely qualify, something like a violent military coup, a great depression (greater than 1929 even), or a severe global pandemic (like the Black Death), would be much closer to par. The whole, “My Daddy lost his job and we don’t know what we’re gonna eat for supper tonight” concept, while tragic for that family (and certainly world changing for them as well) doesn’t qualify because of the small sample size, so to speak.
I read that back and forth on what started this and I think that other fella didn’t say it must mean Mad Max or whatever. I read him saying most folks see TEOTWAWKI as being bigger than some regional thing. That’s not the same as saying it must mean Mad Max (I alrready voted YES yesterday so not voting again).
TEOTWAWKI is a event that changes life for the majority of people from which recovery is unlikly in a lifetime. humans have always overcome but rarly the geneation it happened to . the world tends to help regional collapse recover .so i think it will have to be a world wide event.my take is it will be a die off because resources are streached now add a few billion in a decade WOW when the ubber rich start losing money and see no profit with the system be afraid verrry afraid. the ability of a small group of men to start TEOTWAWKI is a given to me its the when thats the ?
Ladies & Gentlemen,
The End Of The World means just that. Their is no interpretation or what “I” think it means. The end of the world is when the world as we knows it ends be it by a great economy collapse, mega tsunami, the Yellowstone Caldera goes ca-boom, or a giant meteor smashes into us. The world would stop & a new world beings. Do you think Christopher Columbus said “Gentlemen, TEOTWAWKI is here. We left the old world. Now, let’s explore the New World.” No, he said “Let’s find a New World.” Their world changed, it didn’t end. So for those who think a house fire, a dip in the economy, or stubbed toe on drift is The End Of The World. Think again ,all it is, is change. When the world Ends, you will know.
This Jason is an imposter! I am the original Jason poster.
BTW… you’re wrong about Columbus. He & his crew litterally experienced TEOTWAWKI; remember the common belief at the time was the world was flat and he sailed off the end of the world – as THEY knew it.
MD, you did it again – you got us all of thinking & that’s great!
What about the loss of electronic fund transfer?
A fuel tanker costs about $17000 to fill. How many truck drivers are you going to trust with that amount of cash? There are a lot that I would trust but think about it. Someone has to be at the loading rack to accept the cash. Someone at the bank to log it in to an account. Then people have to show up at your store with cash to purchase. No barter, cash only. I don’t think that there is that much cash on hand in America to go to an all cash system. Especially not a FRN system.
how many truckers would you trust with that kind of cash? certainly not me since my truck was only a paltry $144,000. sheesh. how bout i lay down and you just kick me?
I would trust a lot of the truckers that I know but not some others. Most of the ones I know don’t want to handle someone else’s money. You become responsible for the count as well as any counterfit.
Do you run under your own authority or someone else’s?
Would you post a cash bond of 15K before taking a load?
The earlies forms of banking in Italy (14th century or so) took care of just this type of situation. So in the long run you do not need electronic fund transfers.
Of course the short run is a very different matter.
No it doesn’t have to be global or even national. NOLA hasn’t recovered fully from Katrina. Prince William Sound fishing has not recovered from Exxon Valdez and Exxon keeps apealing judgements so not all damages have been paid. Cannerys close jobs dry up children move away to find work. Detroit 3rd or 4th generation car and part manufacture jobs gone, kids move away town drys up. Copper mine closes, town blows away. As we know it, mad max thinking will limit your preperations. Broaden your mind, prepareing for a shortage of buggy whips won’t help. Mona Clee wrote an excellent book on TEOTWAWKI that came on with a wimper not a SHTF. [Overshoot] The Gulf Ecoaster has not run it’s full course yet, don’t relax, the best preps are those that are always with you. Prepare your mind and you won’t leave that behind.
I will have to vote no. The Mad Max scenario is the death of civilization, all things-bonds, covenants, treaties, etc. are severed. no governments large or small, all gone. There is nothing resembling normal or accepted societal norms, although new ones will be formed. TEOTWAYKI is the event that so totally disrupts (destroys) your civilized structure of society and every one elses.
SHTF happens every day, all day. Some one, some were is experiencing it. But its not the end of the world.
BTW, Catherine: There are many Americans already living in 3rd world conditions. Just look at the American territories.
NO. In terms of the USA and the life we have enjoyed here, I think TEOTWAWKI has already happened and we didn’t even realize it.
The election of BHO was the coup de gras. We still have time to save the place before the lights go out but we better all work hard and fast, on the same pace of, say, a sandbag line at a Mississippi River flood if we think we are going to save this nation. We are about to become a 3rd world country. Sure there is the chance that a meteor will hit or an EMP attack or some sort of rouge virus but the real world changing catastrophy usually slips up on you un-noticed.
Think about your life when you were a child and how it is now. Sure there are those among us who grew up in unfortunate circumstances and see modern life as an improvement but for most of us baby boomers and the generation after us it has been a slow, down hill progression of rules, regulations and loss of freedom, safety and security.
Time for my $0.02:
SHTF: an event or series of events leading to a cataclysmic result for the subject individual or group.
LCE: Life Changing Event: an occurrence, precipitated by SHTF, which permanently and negatively affects a subject group below the threshold size. Must, at a minimum, cause significant reduction in quality of life. Usually used for the level of an individual or family.
TEOTWAWKI: an LCE expanded to the societal level.
Example of LCE: loss of career during time of high unemployment leading to loss of property and facilities. A fall from self sustaining middle class to abject poverty. Can be recovered from only with establishment of a new career.
Example of TEOTWAWKI: Fall of the Pax Romana, which led directly into the Dark Ages. Was not recovered from until the Renaissance.
Personaly I think teotwawki will have to do with financual meltdown.Maybe a political fubar initiated by our Kenyan in chief.I know that it will not have anything to do with zombie outbreak beacus that is nonsense and so called post opopoclys beacus after the opocalypse God will be in charge anyway.I could see finacual and political fubar with blue helmeted thugs patroling our streets though.Personaly I can forsee prepping for it beacus we have a hope to survive that way. Steve
Possibly the loss of a written language?
Loss of spell check?
:)
your kindness is unmatched. lorenzo,im glad you are part of this blog :)
No
Here’s a crazy idea: how about all of us survivalist/prepper/whatevers start asking clarifying questions of eachother when discussing TEOTWAWKI vs. making assumptions and then going off the deep end like I have seen in several blogs over the past week?
Common sense is seeming less and less common these days…
PFTPFTPFT! Where’s the fun in that!
LOL, nah – it’s just proving that people have a hard time getting along NOW, when things are GOOD.
No doubt.
No.
Yes and No. There are 2 ways to get there. Fast or slow. Fast—Yes. The slow way is many events happening over several years or decades that will sooner or later be TEOTWAWKI for everyone. Those who survive the fast TEOTWAWKI will know it happened. If it happens slowly, TEOTWAWKI may occur to each person or family at different times and rates depending on their situation.
Mad Max, anything less is just another disaster
No, TEOTWAWKI could be a lesser event such as described above.
No, TEOTWAWKI does not have to be post-apocalyptic, merely a resetting of life to a less preferred state with little to no hope of returning.
No. AWKI is as important as TEOTW in this context. Mad Max and asteroid apocalypse seem to me to be TEOTW and don’t need the qualifier AWKI since vast majority of population would have died before Mad Max came on scene (definition of “we” changes, IMHO).
YES…..Based on the direction our country is headed under our present and past leadership ! When , not if , the total economic collapse comes
say bye bye to everything as you know it today { food , fuel , power ,
medical , financial , } Old Faithful is due to erupt , global warming increasing , more earthquakes and natural disasters……not very good
prospects for all of us to hang our hopes on ! But life will go on for those that survive and adapt….remember how you thought life was simpler in the OLD DAYS…..I’m afraid were fixing to find out people !
So have a nice day – hug your children , kiss your spouse , and make the most of whatever we have left ! HANDAWKI…..HAVE A NICE DAY AS WE KNOW IT….
NO. I think life as we know it will have big changes and I think those changes are coming up fast.
ELE: extinction level event – only the rats, roaches and nasty bugs live afterward.
TEOTWAWKI: the end of the world as we know it – a MAD MAX kind of world impacting event where all that live in it are totally on their own (or band together in small groups) and the highly integrated infrastructure we have today is gone forever or at least for multiple generations. Life is all about subsistance living, OpSec, barter, taking from others if you want it bad enough, etc.
STHF: everything else – outright gov confiscation of wealth, becoming totally owned by the Chinese, all pretence of individual freedom stripped away, etc., gov takeover of all of the private sector, depression or staggering inflation, etc. Very bad situation could easily last for years.
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