How far are we from a total collapse of our economy?

Three Years After Lehman, a New Debt Crisis Looms, Fear Sets In, Panic Begins, Ruin Perceived, Prepare for Gold $2100,  3-2-1 Global Meltdown  :sweat:

Every day we read the media headlines and news reports predicting economic doom, but the question remains – how long (years, months, weeks, or days) do we have before a total economic collapse?

I want to know what you think…?:-)

How far are we from a total collapse of our economy?

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Please feel free to elaborate on your answer in the comments below… What do you think will be the tipping point and when?

Comments

  1. I think 1-2 years, based on how long it will take to get the next pres. election over with, and how long after that the “new” fee structure for the Feds (read taxes) will take to break the average Americans back. Read up on the decline and fall of the Roman empire. We are following an old playbook for failure. I lost my job of 17 years due to the debt crisis. I now sit at home, looking for jobs in my finitely specialized job field, on Obama’s unemployment check. The replicans are saying “cut unemplyment benefits” as I sit here. I truly believe that putting me on the governments teat is the way the libs hope to make me vote for them. It’s all part of the plan. The biggest problem for them is that I’ve prepped extensively, have my house paid off, and am using the unemployment checks to buy more ammo and silver…Ha!

    • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

      Your unemployment checks are coming out of my pension checks. Hope you enjoy that silver and ammo at my expense. Maybe I can return the favor some day.

    • “The replicans are saying “cut unemplyment benefits”
      Really? Can you name them? Can you point to a video showing one actually saying that? I suspect what you are hearing are demorats talking about what they want you to think the repubs are saying. Don’t fall for that crap.

  2. I don’t know when the economy will crash or if it will but I do know this; it took far more years than this present administration to put us in the debt we are. Regardless where you stand politically, one side always blames the other. And if you think there is going to be some “magical” solution just because another Republican gets in office next term, you are delusional. I don’t think any party can fix this problem very easily. We go back forth electing Repub then Democ. and it is like being on a hamsters wheel. Do you think one or the other is really going to make that much of a difference? I really don’t. I am not sure at this point if I will even bother to vote. We don’t really get to choose a truly viable person to be in the White House anyway. It is just more of the same old crap! I am sick of it!

    • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

      The only way to change the cycle of tax and spend is to change the thinking of the American people. So long as the people accept the status quo and continue to be sheeple, nothing will truly change. If you don’t like what you see, change it. If you don’t like what you see and you sit on your butt and do nothing, then you are part of the problem.

      • Ah, Lint Picker (No. Cal.) your “then you are part of the problem” comment reminded me of this other bit I read:

        “…The governments of your city and your county are as uncorrupt and responsible as government can be, right? [You’ve been “a man of ACTION!”, right?] You’ve chased all the bad guys out and replaced them with representatives who never break laws or overstep their bounds — true servants of the citizenry. Whatever inclinations they might have toward citizen abuse are curbed either by their integrity or their fear of what You the People will do to them. If the smallest act of abuse or corruption ever raises its head, you and your activist friends are immediately able to whack it down. This is how your local governments are run, right?…

        If this thing you’re always recommending [engaging government] worked, you’d already be working it in your own political arena, right? You’d have examples to show us. Your YouTube channel would be filled with videos of honest, helpful cops and honest, respectful, law-abiding politicians in action. You’d have Twitter feeds boasting of your clean government — or at least boasting of how terrified of you your local pols are. You’d hold seminars demonstrating how you did it. Freedom seekers by the tens of thousands would flock to your hometown — to live there or just to learn from you.

        I don’t see any of that happening. Why not? If you’re so darned sure [being a man of ACTION!] produces honest, responsive government … well, show us.

        I’m waiting.”

        http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/ClaireWolfe/2011/07/14/responsibilities-of-a-resident-of-the-police-state-part-ii/

        • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

          You are apparently assuming I do nothing in my own community to get rid of corruption, crime, bad politicians and the like. You would be very wrong. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the people who live here are content with the status quo since they benefit from it. This is exactly why I posted what I did to Marcia. I dare say I have done far more in my life to fight corruption at all levels of government than you will ever do in yours.

          Actually, I’m surprised you would even bother posting a got-ya comment to me since I know how busy you are worrying about iodized salt, chemtrails, and poltergeists. LMAO

          • I assumed Nothing. It was just something I was reminded of, that’s all. However; I noticed you didn’t post your Youtube channel describing your local success, per the link. Perhaps you missed the entire point of the author of the link?

            It’s a bit sad how you try and turn things around back on me and avoid the meat of the link.
            It wasn’t a got-ya comment, it was a, “learn from it” comment.
            I worry about Nothing. I am simply cautious and observant.

            Also, what hat did you pull the poltergeists comment out of? Yeesh. All I can say is, I expected a better reply than the presumptuous one I got.

            • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

              Youtube is not my medium of choice. If you want to see my own “successes” at stopping or ending corruption at the local level, you’d have to subscribe to the newspaper here in my town. If you’d like to subscribe, let me know and I’ll give you the newspaper’s contact information.

              What do you advocate for change? You do act, don’t you? Or do you only ridicule those who do?

    • Leaving Obama in office for another 4 years is a guarantee of a no change situation. The people that voted for him voted for him to be honest and took him at his word. His word and promises are worth nothing……….so we must do what we can to replace him and replace the congress members over and over and over until they get it. Sorry to hear you aren’t going to vote. At this time, it is one of the few rights we have that aren’t being challenged. Leave this dude in office for 4 more years of his attitude of “executive privilege” with a stroke of a pen and it is ok to ignore the Constitution and we may lose our right to an election.

      • Straight ticket GOP in 2012 for me , if we can can pack enough seats in the senate and house to make him ineffective , it may be the next best thing to getting him out . Would prefer to see him out as well as any Dem majority .

      • Hunker-Down says:

        I almost voted for him when he promised to get rid of all of the lobbyists in D.C. Lost count of the lies.
        Remember I said ALMOST.

    • I agree with Marcia to a large extent. I would vote for Dem or Repub or Lib or whoever (maybe not LaRouche) if they said that the US is suicidally in debt. And to recover if possible at all, we will have to raise some more revenue, drastically cut military budgets and treaty commitments. Europe, South Korea, and Japan will have to provide their own soldiers and pay for their own defense. Go to a states rights model – why do we need a federal department of education? energy? etc. Possibly consider a VAT.

      I don’t know for sure that every element is a great winner, but we won’t get out of this hole by keeping the status quo with incremental shifts to the left or the right. Protect individual liberty, keep a strong defense for the US homeland, but nothing else can be considered sacrosanct.

      We can take our medicine and hope to keep ourselves from the big fall, or we can slide for who knows how long before something really catastrophic happens.

      • Jefferson said ” Commerce with all , allies with none should be our motto ” I would take it a bit further and have limited commerce with all and allies with none .

    • Remember this… The last 2 years of Bush, the dems controlled the purse strings. They controlled congress.

  3. This totally depends on the results of the 2012 election. Will enough voters wake up? Or will the idiots and moochers win?

    • jingl……

      Idiots and moochers vote and idiots and moochers outnumber the tax payers…..who are you betting is going to win?

      • What have I been saying since O got elected?
        He is the first “Welfare President”…. Yes, the welfare class will keep him in office, and the USA will go down to ruin and grief.
        Vote the Seccesion Party, folks!

      • Hunker-Down says:

        Hawkeye,
        Dang, I wish you had not said that. The truth hurts.

        Maybe only taxpayers should be allowed to vote? Hows that for a loosing political platform. Depressing.

        • Hunker-Down….

          “Maybe only taxpayers should be allowed to vote”…….

          There’s a lot of rational things that could be said for that. But, alas, it will never happen!

      • IT is not those idiots who will win the election. It will be the idiots that will stay home if thier chosen one is not on the ticket that will give us 4 more years of oVamanos. That kind of thinking is what got him elected the first time.

        • Hunker-Down says:

          Hi Ron,
          I wont stay home. Its like my favorite football team is anybody who is playing the Bears this week.
          If my candidate is not on the ticket, I don’t care; I’ll vote for the telephone pole in front of your house if that’s TDL’s opponent.

          • Right now there is a good size group of candidates out there that all beat oVamanos. However there are three that I would have to hold my nose to vote for.
            But I will be there and that telephone pole will get my vote if need be.

          • Let’s see the birth certificate of that phoney pole, I think that it was made in Canada.

  4. Marcia, I agree with you a bit. It Is just more of the same old crap, except there is One who has not been handling the same old crap, and that is Ron Paul, a.k.a. Dr. No. I’d vote for him if I get the chance, but I will not be voting for any others.

    I selected six months based numerous comments by financial People who anticipate a correction happening in the U.S. stock market in the next two months, “Ben Bernanke is not going to prop up the stock market with more quantitative easing, not yet anyway” the Fed needs a crash to use as reason to unleash QE IV.

    http://thedailybell.com/2874/DB-Briefs-September-Looks-to-Be-a-Terrible-Market-Month-Solar-Power-to-Go-the-Way-of-the-Dodo-Is-the-Federal-Reserve-Political

    This would be the beginning of a total economic collapse.

    Additionally, “something may happen to the [Chinese] economy sooner rather than later. Obviously, top Chinese central bankers agree with us, because according to Xinhua, rates are being tightened again.”
    This rate tightening brings on the crash.
    “It may be staved off for a while but, in our view, come it will.”

    http://thedailybell.com/2868/DB-Briefs-Undermining-Bitcoin-and-the-American-Justice-System-Desperate-Bankers-Damp-Lending-in-China-Does-a-Clean-Environment-Preempt-a-Healthy-Economy

    The other side issues to a financial crash, and the financial crash itself, are much like the creeping advance of Yellow Fever was on Memphis:

    An Economic Yellow Fever Is Headed Your Way
    http://lewrockwell.com/north/north1014.html

    Quite a few American jobs rely on imports from China, some People fail to realize this, yet the number of jobs lost due to imports from China are very very small, and, contrary to many claims, quite insignificant compared the massive amount of American industrial production:

    These Threats Will Not Collapse America’s Economy
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north1025.html

    • mountain lady says:

      I see you also read The Daily Bell. In that case, you probably have a vcry good idea as to where the world is headed. I read an article on ZeroHedge last evening, and for a few minutes I thought I was here on thesurvivalistblog.com. We are not the only group that is seeing what is coming.

    • Allow me to introduce to the court, Exhibit A.
      “I’d vote for him if I get the chance, but I will not be voting for any others”.
      oVamanos just has to LOVE this kind of thinking.

      • templar knight says:

        Yep, Ron, this is exactly what will put Obama in office for another 4 years. Well, that, and voter intimidation and voter fraud.

      • Uh, Ron, there’s only one candidate that has a proven track record of liberty and freedom, if he does not get past the primaries there’s really no point in voting for anyone else, it then becomes a question of, who do you want to be the decider of your life, warmonger #1, or Warmonger #2 … I think I’ll pass and say, neither.

        • On behalf of the oVamanos lovers and socialist everywhere, Thank you for your “Principle Before Logic” sensibility. A vote not cast against TDL is two votes for him.
          Or as an old Colnel once advised a young Sgt. “You may be correct but Is that the sword you want to fall on”?

          • ron, my colonel said “are you prepared to fall on your sword over it?” same sentiment, i knew we were brothers at arms in another life.

  5. It happened two months ago in July. That was so simple even a cave man could see it.

    http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/july-latest-caveman/

    Just poking a little fun. Hopefully we are preparing for our families so we don’t have to worry quite as much as most should. I do have to admit, I have been wondering if my slow and steady pace should get a little more spring in its step. I have had some serious urges to buy a couple grand in silver and get some cornmeal, lentils, barley, and split peas I have been putting off, even if it screws up our family’s plans for a new vehicle. But then again I have lots of urges I shouldn’t be giving in to. I’ll try and keep my slow and steady pace for now…

    • mountain lady says:

      What are you waiting for, the prices will only go up. I actually cashed in a little gold a few months ago because I felt I did not have enough food storage.

      • Holy Moley, mountain lady… that was a good investment, in spite of what gold is going for these days. Have you been to the grocery store lately? I just went last night, and spent about $250 for about 10 of those flimsy plastic bags of groceries… and feel like I got nothing! My shopping habits don’t change much from year to year… I keep Excel spreadsheets of my shopping list on my laptop, and I save them in a file. I keep track of what I spend on each trip, going back almost 10 years. In about 8 months, I’ve gone from spending $170/week on groceries to over $250! That’s not OK. Looks like we are beginning to feel the results of all that printing going on down there in Bernacke’s corner of the country. That’s a lot of money. And they wonder why discretionary spending is dead?

        • mountain lady says:

          I only get to town every 4 to 6 weeks, so the price rise is very obvious. I have been forced to change some of my shopping habits, but there are quite a few items that I will miss when I can no longer afford to buy them.

  6. Chilly Beaver says:

    My 2 cents from north of the border (poster formerly know as newCdnPrepper)

    I filled in 3 – 5 years, but for whats its worth, I think we are all ready in the beginning stages of a complete financial meltdown, but expect that many wont acknowlege it until large scale conflict arrises. Our resources, jobs, and standard of living are being exported to the third world and BRIC countries at an alarming rate. Globalization could probably be a wonderful thing in a utopian environment, but that is not what we have, we have 1% of the population controlling 90% of the wealth. IMHO we are becoming obsolete to the banksters because we are all ready consumerist junkies that twitch when we dont get our “fixes” and now that that we have spent every dollar that we have (and more like all of the $ our children will make in their lives) its time to move to greener pastures, where the sheeple are even more docile and all ready used to being marginalized and treated like cattle by authoritarian government. Moooooooo!

    • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

      Chilly Beaver?? LMAO. That has a whole different connotation in the USA. Might want to change your screen name again. Leave out the “Beaver” part and go with Chilly Muskox or something that has nothing to do with female body parts. Just sayin’.

      • Chilly Beaver says:

        My sense of humour is a little twisted Lint Picker, and Ive been called worse by many. lol

      • I’m with you lint. I was prepared to start a “thermal underpants” drive,and mail them north. I shoulda left this alone. Last time we had a chuckle about the term beaver,I had a few terse words with another poster whom I’ve grown to admire a great deal. I think she forgives me though.

        • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

          Brad, I think I will have to refer to Chilly Beaver as CB in the future. That should keep me safe from those feisty females.

    • Chilly Beaver wrote, “Our resources, jobs, and standard of living are being exported to the third world and BRIC countries at an alarming rate.”

      You must’ve skipped the link to the G. North article above.

      Here’s another similar one you might find enlightening:

      “…36% of the price U.S. consumers pay for imported goods actually goes to U.S. companies and workers.

      This U.S. fraction is much higher for imports from China. Whereas goods labeled “Made in China” make up 2.7% of U.S. consumer spending, only 1.2% actually reflects the cost of the imported goods. Thus, on average, of every dollar spent on an item labeled “Made in China,” 55 cents go for services produced in the United States. In other words, the U.S. content of “Made in China” is about 55%…”

      http://www.frbsf.org/publications/economics/letter/2011/el2011-25.html

      Think about that.

  7. Maybe I should have added, if it doesn’t start in six months, I’m better prepared for when it does start, if I take that approach.

    8.26.2011
    “I Think The Treasury Market Is A Disaster Waiting To Happen.
    All I am saying is I am very bearish. I think we will have inflation. I think the Treasury market is a disaster waiting to happen. I think the economy will slow down. They’re going to print money and we will go to war at some stage somewhere.” – http://marcfaberblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/i-think-treasury-market-is-disaster.html

    “… The entire global financial system is collapsing and Only the little children believe that it’s going to be saved”

    http://www.infowars.com/gerald-celente-alex-jones-the-house-of-presstitution/

  8. I went for 1-2 years . Obama will bring us down if he can within that time frame. Particularly if his poll numbers keep going down and it looks like he won’t be reelected. He will leave behind a smoking hole when he is booted out. Emediate impeachment is the answer if anyone in the House has th guts to lead it. Maybe Alan West with Tea Party support. I’m probably dreaming huh?

    • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

      Obama could be brought up on several impeachment charges, but the Senate will never support it. He is going to destroy this country before the 2012 election. It may take a couple years for the full weight of his executive orders, Obamacare, immigration politicies, etc. to be felt but they will be felt and by then it will be too late.

      Prep like crazy, Wolf Pack, the days draw short regardless of which timeframe you chose. Forget about the politics, just do what you can to save yourselves and in doing so, you may ultimately save America… as she was intended to be.

      • mountain lady says:

        LP: You are so right. As much as I wanted to take a break from prepping, now is not the time to do it.

  9. I chose never…I know things are tuff and they keep on
    gettin worse . We do all this preppin for good reason ,to
    safeguard against worse times . Fear not Wolfpack for the great and
    Don’t Mess With Texas Gov. Rick Perry will save us all and he and his
    appointed staff will straighten things out …Remember the Alamo and
    Don’t Mess With The USA !!! Will fight to the death for that which we believe !

    My 2nd pick is 2-3 yrs….I can’t afford to prep for longer than that ,
    I don’t have the room anyway !

  10. Like many others I also believe we have already started on our downward spiral. So I give it 2-3 years at the most. I hate to say it but I think that collapse is this administration’s intent. Anyone ever hear of Cloward-Piven?

    It feels like 1775, 1858, and 1932 all rolled into one. We are sitting on an economic and political powder keg. Take one pivotal event (it could be just about anything, take your pick), add to the mix, shake vigorously and then watch it all blow to kingdom come.

    The question is which way will America ultimately go? Will we return to our Constitutional roots and become the shining beacon on the hill once again? Will the nation split with no hope of reconciliation? Or, worst case, will we become slaves in a totalitarian nightmare?

    In the end, the fate of this nation will all come down to which individuals have the greater will to succeed – those who take or those who do for themselves. I could write so much more but thinking about how “the powers that be” play with our lives just makes my brain hurt.

    • mountain lady says:

      Read “Atlas Shrugged” by Ayn Rand if you get a chance, and hope that it is over soon. If the progressives win at this game, it will take a few more years. I really cannot see them winning this one.

      • mountain lady, I’ve been meaning to read Atlas Shrugged for years now, but never found the time to finish the whole thing. I’m familiar with the story line, though, and in many ways have “gone Galt” myself. But I am trying to do what I can to keep the faith.

        • richard muszynski says:

          greetings. but if you try to keep the faith and support the evil ones then in effect you are contributing to the problem. Ayn Rand in her books never tolerated a parasite such as our leaders are loaded with. nor did she ever have any of her characters give in to them either.

  11. Wonder what y’all will be saying 3 to 5 years from now when nothing’s happened. I mean, haven’t we already went right on past some of the other predicted deadlines? Someone should mark down this date and start keeping track from this day.

  12. I vote “it does not matter” – when you are prepared. How you prepare IS a matter of time-scale, but eventually you get in the mindset and it becomes a lifestyle – part of the culture. But for the vast majority that are the clueless sheeple, it won’t matter anyway. If it drags out a whole generation or two into the future, then being prepared takes on different meaning – in terms of not just in our lives, but it becomes important to pass on our principles, national identity, and preparedness mindset to the next generations. As for Dark Night, someone please turn on his porch light.

  13. frank sherman says:

    i voted one year or less. why? look at the choices we have.obama says he has to fix bush,s mistakes. ok. but he has made such a mess of it who can fix his ? i,m retired and have a fixed income if they take anything away or prices go up anymore i just wont make it. there are millions of americans just like me who can,t and wont accept the same old shit from washington. if enough people just drop out of the system now they will have no tax base. no taxes no big bucks to play with. it will all come crashing down and i don,t think it will take more than one year to happen.yall can joke and have a good time yakking about it but this is some serious shit!!!!!

    • richard muszynski says:

      greetings. you may not know it but you have just stated the main theme in Ayn Rands novel and philosophy, stop contributing to the problem and back out of it. stop producing wealth for them. stop using your mind for their enrichment. stop making the chains they use to chain you down with. be more like John Galt and simply stop feeding the beast and it will come down by itself. and Atlas Shrugged is also available on tape or CD for those who don’t have the time or don’t wish to read the book. would be a really good idea for those out there who call themselves libertarians to read or listen to it as well. Ayn Rand never advocated bargaining with the devils. which is why one will read so much against her on the net. compromise was never part of her philosophy.

  14. The Dark Lord and his ilk are hard at work to create chaos, overwhelm the system, and collapse it. TDL is just an ego-on-a-string, controlled by the powerful elitists globally but he BELIEVES there is a need for “fundamental change” and world “justice” because he was raised as a Socialist. So he is committed to his ideology and fits perfectly with the global plan.

    There are a number of tactics that have been put into play and one tactic has been to employ Keynesian economics again — this way, they can devalue the US Dollar through spending. Keynesian believed that when people saved their money, they created recessions and even depressions — his belief was that if people (and systems) were forced to spend, the money would grow-the-economy. Keynes heavily influenced FDR and through him, the “New Deal” was formulated…..the deal that propelled Socialism in the US. Didn’t work then, doesn’t work now.

    For the most part, Keynesian economics died in the 1970s and only recently was resurrected from the dead in 2008 after the crash. Why? Because Keynesian economics will raise the prices of stocks and the global corporations and investors hunger for the $$$ ! As it stands, Keynesian economics proves that lowered interest rates and qualitative easing do little more than artificially stimulate the Market, create inflation, and devalue the monetary system. See the proof of these 3 things now???

    What most Americans are unaware of is the failing economy in Europe. The EU is in deep doodoo and will fail via a domino effect.They can’t print money like we can and the European banks are heavily leveraged. Greece will be the first to go under unless it is bailed out. (Check the 2 yr bond market for Greece…there’s a reason for the high % yield! High risk!) Greece has a total debt of about 330 billion euros (or U.S. $473 billion) (See: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/13/business/global/13euro.html) So how did the Greek debt get out of control? As it turned out, major U.S. banks, specifically J.P. Morgan Chase and Goldman Sachs, helped their government cover the true extent of its deficit with the help of a derivatives deal. Who knew their involvement is part of the EU financial collapse? Well, anyone who has been studying the Federal Reserve and the global elites. The sting is that the Federal Reserve stated they’ll investigate the US bank involvement of the Greek debt problem. And just WHO sits on the Board of the Federal Reserve??? Nothing like the police policing police, huh?

    The plan is globalism and the destruction of the US is intentional — The New World Order is not a conspiracy theory, the evidence is overwhelming and can be seen in every major subsystem in the US. Everywhere you turn, the large financial institutes have pillaged to the point of no return. And we have collusion with the Federal Government to make the ‘thieving’ a very large money sweep.

    Of course there are a number of simultaneous events and policies, all with the intent to fundamentally change and radically transform the US and the “global market”.

    The Dark Lord’s slogan was “Hope and Change” — carefully planned with a double-meaning. Hope is a word used when fear is sensed and little can be done. Oppressive governments use this tactic to render their targets into submission. To radically change, then transform America, the socialists believe you must ‘overwhelm the system’. It is happening now.

    We can stop The Dark Lord but we will not stop the global elitists. There is simply too much at stake for them and they are well-placed at-the-ready. Civilizations come and go for reasons. Ever wonder why?

    • To every tyrant there is an anti -tyrant , the anti -tyrants are typically slow to rouse . But once roused , the tyrant usually comes to a violent end . One world order ? doomed to failure because of human nature . You cant conquer the world or can you save it . Any success they may have will not last long because there is always somebody that wants what they have , even within their own ranks . A world wide collapse will bring back the every man for himself attitude……. goodbye and good riddance to globalization .

      • TR, Maybe you misunderstood — I do not believe a New World Order will prevail. Like many other “civilizations”, it too will fail. However, when reviewing history, the reign of tyrants and the control of oppressive governments can be measured in decades and scores of years. It’s best not to dismiss the long-lasting effects.

        Whether a NWO is in effect for 10 years or a century, life will change (and we are witnessing this now). New paths will be blazed and the resulting chaos will challenge multitudes of people who are physically, mentally, and spiritually unprepared. Few are ready for subsistence lifestyles, most don’t even understand it, but those who can rise above all of the tyranny and turmoil will help mold a new civilization. And I dare say it will not be “global”. Our own political leaders cannot even conduct business effectively — the NWO is absurd.

        • Agreed ,
          What is encouraging is we are seeing Nationalism resurfacing everywhere , its natural and healthy , I cant see the EU surviving a collapse , I see them going back to being separate and sovereign nations again . The British didnt join it because they wanted to maintain their own identity and could see ahead that all that was going to happen was the strong industrial countries propping up the weaker welfare nations economically . Only time this nation was as polarized , restless , and discontent as it is now , was just before the outbreak of the civil war . We are already mentally separate , the meaning of ” your country ” to many and a growing amount of people is your family , your neighborhood and your state or region . Washington might as well be Moscow for as much as it really means anything to people who dont live there . I do predict an eventual break up . When ? I have no idea .But I see it as not an IF but more as a WHEN . I dont really see military action to stop it this time around either , foolish ? perhaps , but I see it more like the Soviet government throwing in the towel when it happened to that nation . Love your posts Lynn 😉
          Stars & Bars !

  15. Hey Carl…..er, I mean Kati….er, I mean YOU ARE A SPAMMER. You left much of that same post on my blog but I didn’t post it. IP: 99.101.221.201 “The truth is very simple. The average American will have to lower their standard of living. Prices are going up, up, up. When you have to spend more on food and gas you’ll have to cut something else.We are stocking up on food storage to prepare for what is surely to come. Check out XXXXXX.com The food is fantastic and the prices low (… for now). I’ve got car insurance, and home insurance…. food insurance is the logical next step. Even if things are getting better, which I doubt, we can always eat the food!”

    Busted.

    • AZ Rookie Prepper says:

      Good catch LynnS. Glad someone outed “carl” or “kati” or whoever that person is.

  16. Hunker-Down says:

    Allie has, in my opinion, the sequence of effects from QE1 and QE2 on our different economic classes correct. I would point out that price inflation has hit me hard already. A pair of Levis, a pair of shoes, a bag of sugar, a gallon of gas; I get sticker shock in every isle of every store. My purchasing power has shrunk in the last 9 months and I believe it will get worse because QE3 is coming. As Allie points out, the inflationary effect of QE1 and 2 have not yet fully arrived on Main Street.

    QE3 will show up in a disguise. Obummer will get Freddie and Fannie to fund the restructuring of home mortgages and the Fed will print the money (QE3). TDL will bury the announcement in an upcoming speech, and it will get up to 10,000,000 beneficiaries to vote for him!

    The combined inflationary effect of QE1, QE2 and QE3 will force millions of Americans to no longer be able to afford to eat. When will it happen? I don’t know the velocity of inflation, so I don’t know when the riots will start. This time, inflation will not discriminate between cities, it will be nationwide. When it happens the authorities will abandon their posts as they did in LA and Detroit.

    If our debtors decide to abandon the dollar as a reserve currency, TEOTWAWKI will follow minutes behind. Another catalyst will be the collapse of the E.U.

    Todays organized gangs will sense the collapse of authority and take advantage by becoming regional warlords. I imagine they already have a reserve stockpile of guns and ammo. Hopefully they will run out of gasoline before making it to my house, but there’s still the local sheeple with which to contend.

    If the democrats stay in control of government, we will continue down the road TDL is pushing us down. If the republicans get control I think they will not be able to siphon the money away from Main Street that TDL printed; either way we need to look to 1990’s Argentina for our future.

    I think it will all happen in less than two years.

    • Hunker-Down,

      Thanks for the really intelligent post. I just can’t believe that the vast majority of Americans are unaware of inflation. Don’t the look at their receipts? The cost of food scares me. The idea of our fellow Americans not having enough to eat scares me. I am not sure any of us have experienced anything on par with what we can expect. Back during the Great Depression, the vast majority of Americans had the values of hard work, determination, self reliance and honesty. As a whole, our society today lacks these values. It’s going to be much worse.

      • Only good news about that is if we do hit rock bottom , no place to go from there but up . Look at what we can do as a nation if we are properly motivated . Our farmers if unrestrained , can feed the nation with food to spare , our industry can make everything we need without difficulty . Best example i can show for this is when we got angry when we were pulled into WW2 . In two short years the nation went from the great depression to pumping out food and equipment for not only ourselves , but ALL the allies . yes there was rationing but we were fed and employed . Lazy people and government can only continue to be so if they are enabled . If they are no longer enabled , its amazing how fast they can change .

  17. blindshooter says:

    I pray we don’t see a quick collapse, I think that would be hell on earth for a long time. I’m not prepared for that and don’t think I ever will be. I fear for our young people, just don’t see them having the same opportunities I’ve had most of my life.

    For the folks that say “when the checks stop, look out here they come”, I don’t believe they will ever stop. They just won’t be worth anything right along with paper dollars and it has been happening for some time already, is that the way they stop entitlements? I’m still looking for ways to save that don’t involve banks or paper money at all.

    Do most of you think it will take a collapse to reset America? I think so. I just can’t picture exactly how it will happen. I’d be the one eyed man in the land of the blind if I could:^)

    • And wait till O’bama care really kicks in! Can you even imagine a Government that insists all citizens prove they have insurance but don’t have to prove they are citizens? WTF!

    • mountain lady says:

      blindshooter, I, too, believe it will take a collapse to reset America. I believe we are headed to some very hard times, but I hope and pray that there are enough Americans left that we can save her.

  18. The powers to be will stretch it out until after 2012 elections and if the Dems win they might be able to continue for a short time but if the Repubs win they will pull the plug to make them appear responsible. In my opinion it is not a question of “will it happen” but “when” and it won’t be nice. The country has lost its moral compass and too many people believe that they are “entitled” to any thing they want. The concept of personal pride in providing for ones self or family has died in a large segment of our population.

  19. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903895904576542703587784540.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection

    Hi WolfPack-
    Just because we aren’t high-rollers on Wall Street doesn’t mean we aren’t right. The above link is to an article that appeared in the Wall Street Journal this morning. It highlights some advice that Goldman Sachs wrote in a brief intended to be seen only internally. The advice is chilling. Jeez Louise… I’m pretty freaked out.
    Cat

    • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

      I couldn’t read the entire article because I wasn’t a subscriber and I refuse to subscribe even if it’s free for 2 weeks. Ain’t gonna fall for that.

      Perhaps you can give us the gist of the story? Just what did that Goldman Sachs expert suggest the super-wealthy do with their money? It’s always fun to learn how the rich people live.
      (I wish I was one.)

  20. Land of the Blind,… have you ever seen that film? Very interesting, imho.

    Also, for those who are interested, QE III has already taken place, it is the pledge of holding down of interest rates. Next up is QE IV.

  21. I voted 2-3 years but I don’t foresee a total collapse. I do think that this is the “lost decade”, a popular phrase I’ve seen many times, usually on the money forums. It took years to amass this incredible debt and will take years to get out of it. This is a stagnant economy, little growth, high unemployment and a housing market that started tanking in 2005(I can’t tell you how many times I read about the housing bubble) and this is the result. Too easy credit, people using their homes like ATMs, living on credit…this is what happens.

    I do suspect that there will be a degree of civil unrest and these flash mobs and days of rage will become more commonplace.

    My husband and I have seen this coming for a few years now and have built a life that is debt free, more self-sustainable and as frugal as possible. More need to get on board with this concept because if they don’t they will be in a world of hurt. Of course, they’ll probably blame someone else…like the “rich.”

    I don’t have a crystal ball and can’t accurately predict what’s coming down the pike but we continue to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

  22. In case some don’t know: This economy has already collapsed.
    To repeat: This economy has already collapsed.

    When will this economy collapse? Might as well ask, When will this game of musical chairs end? For that reason I say we will spend as long as possible but spending will vary by time and place.

    In this collapse there is no praise for present or future administrations; no time to squander on blame. In America the seeds were set long ago and the “world” economy now patterns many failed civilization; much as the halting collapse of the Roman Empire. As a poet said (I put it in a wider context) things don’t go out with a bang but with a whimper; except in movies and video games.

    The economy has collapsed and our infrastructure is shot from roads and bridges to the halls of Congress.

    The only valid question is: When will the economy come to an end for ( @ )< insert your name and location? Of course a city may burn here and there but that's hardly cause to buy books on economic solutions or "the sky is falling events" from a seemingly endless supply of snake oil salesmen.

    In the game of musical chairs we find countless "solutions" from those who see themselves as the piano player or being educated and skilled chair movers. Don't play this game on yourself. The piano player is time and chance (or God depending on your world view) and survival the result of action.

    What did you do to prepare today? Good question. Don't fall into the game trap where millions work to maintain a seat or sell game chairs.
    Stand ready outside the game and watch it "go down." Always look at What Is and refuse to pay or play What If?

  23. SrvivlSally says:

    I will give it 2 to 3 but that will depend upon how our economy is handled. If, for example, too many more are laid off and require food stamps or financial assistance, that system could collapse should the money not be managed properly. If the systems that are in place right now are overburdened like the stamps and cash assistance, they could very well collapse. I recently learned that there is a problem within the area of food production here in our country because the growers are becoming less and less able to keep up with the demand because food is being overconsumed. In other words, the farmers have only so much room to grow food upon and people are eating more than the farmers are able to produce. Collapse is inevitable if people do not turn from their SuperSizeMe, Burger King lifestyles, putting more into their stomachs than is necessary and stop overburdening the food system. I know for a fact, please do not ask me how I know, that many overweight people eat, or snack, all day long, every day. Every time I go to Wal Mart, there are at least 70% of the people inside the store that are overweight, their stomachs sticking out sometimes way past their chests or breasts. In my opinion, people really are eating way more than what can be produced. In the fifty’s people sat down at the dinner table and ate together. Today, they join one another at restaurants. Everything surrounds food. There are scores of cooking shows which use fattening ingredients and unhealthy levels of salt. Cream, sour cream, butter, peanut butter and other ingredients that are a “no-no” for heart patients and overweight individuals are normally used. On New Year’s Eve, I never make a resolution to “lose weight” as so many people do. I have watched celebrities work for six weeks to take off weight. If people do not turn it around, the food system could collapse. Without food to eat, the human body can go only so far before it runs out of steam which means that anyone not eating much will eventually lose their job once their body gives out to lack of nourishment and energy. If a majority of workers were going hungry and their lost their jobs because of it then it would stand to reason that, with the rest of the nation undergoing hunger as well, the economy could collapse. No one working=no one putting money into the economy= no businesses up and running because work is not getting done and the result will be a nation on it’s knees. The wealthy would have to rethink the situation of how they got rich in the first place. It took workers and then buyers to get them to where they are right now for without them they would never have been able to expand, create additional jobs and reap huge benefits, or sums of money. It was the bankers and individuals who sought after wealth that created a system in which we are all now dependent upon but without one another, there will be no system. No food system would lead to no need for government other than to act in a manner that tries to out-tax it’s citizens for the land that they live upon…my forefathers left good ol’ England way back then to live in a land of freedom which is only dripping milk and honey now. The heat wave may dry them up but I will pray that our nation will turn and be healed. Nations are based on systems and the overburdening of them could knock their legs right out from under them. I would not go to my survival supplies and use them all up nor would I do that with my money. If I did, I would have nothing left but still have needs that I could not meet. My entire empire would collapse right under my feet. No food+no money=sell everything I’ve got just to survive.

    • SrvivlSally wrote, “There are scores of cooking shows which use fattening ingredients and unhealthy levels of salt. Cream, sour cream, butter, peanut butter and other ingredients that are a “no-no” for heart patients and overweight individuals are normally used.”

      If you come back and read this,… you might be interested in these other perspectives, personally I think the problem for most People is sugar and high fructose corn syrup:

      7 Reasons to Eat More Saturated Fat

      “The two doctors note that no matter how the story spins from the denizens of the anti-fat camp, one piece of their advice remains staunchly constant: “You should sharply limit your intake of saturated fats.” But will saturated fats really increase your risk of heart disease and raise your cholesterol? In a word, no. In fact, humans need them, and here are just a few reasons why:”

      http://lewrockwell.com/mercola/mercola143.html

      The Definitive Guide to Saturated Fat

      “… the Standard American Diet, with its massive amounts of grains, sugar, starches, margarines, vegetable oils, and yes, some red meat and artery-clogging saturated fat, is bad for us. The researchers may try to seize on a single aspect of the diet (usually saturated fat), but that only tells us that saturated fat has a bad reputation. Is it deserved? We certainly can’t draw any conclusions from an observational study confounded by dozens of other variables. And yet still the crazy headlines jump out from all angles: “Saturated Fat Linked To Pancreatic Cancer!”; “Colon Cancer And Red Meat: Is Your Burger Killing You?” I think I did a decent job disassembling the latest red meat (read: saturated fat) scare study, as did Dr. Eades.”

      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/saturated-fat-healthy/

      Cutting Back on Salt ‘Does Not Make You Healthier’ (Despite Nanny State Warnings)

      “Eating less salt will not prevent heart attacks, strokes or early death, according to a major study.

      Its findings contradict all recommendations by the Government and medical profession urging the public to reduce the amount of salt they consume…”

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2011630/Cutting-salt-dosnt-make-healthier.html

      I hope that was helpful.

      • SrvivlSally says:

        Clark,
        Thank you for your reply and I agree that salt is not going to stop anything from happening (once a heart or neck artery is clogged it must be manually cleaned out and stented) but I believe that it has been proven that salt has something to do with blood pressure and, I know this for a fact, when you have congestive heart failure, or CHF, as it is known amongst the medical professionals, that the feet will swell due to the kidneys not functioning properly and salt should be refrained from at that point. One person that I, not long ago, stayed awake hour upon hour with due to their having CHF had to receive loads of Lasix to remove the water from around their heart and to help decrease the swelling that their feet were undergoing due to their kidneys malfunctioning. I could go further into the details about what certain foods are doing to people internally, but I will leave it at that and with a picture of overweight, obese, morbidly obese individuals which are consuming fattening, salty, blood pressure-raising=hearts being overworked, prematurely at that, foods. I know about high fructose corn syrup and much in regards to most of the “health” information that has been recently promoted but we must take into account the serious health problems of those whom are affected which will link us into why doctors make “health” recommendations. If you have noticed, it is when a person has an ailment such as high blood pressure, heart disease and so forth that a doctor will say something. But he or she will not say anything to those persons which go unaffected. Personally, I am glad that I moved away from high fructose corn syrup as it really did make a difference. It was a choice I made after I tested what life would be like without sodas and other foods with the sweetener in them. Heart patients are not to consume more than 2400 mg sodium, which equals 1 teaspoon of salt per day, or their heart and other organs and bodily functions may suffer. It would be more preferable to stay within an 1800 mg intake but it is purely optional for most patients. Again, eating less salt is intended only for those with health problems such as heart disease which is linked into strokes which is linked into diabetes which is linked into weight which is linked into blood pressure which comes right back around to being linked into the heart. Whether or not a person has heart or other ailments, they should still watch their salt. Salt will make you retain water and some heart patients, in the end, wind up losing pound after pound of water weight. It is truly amazing how much weight some people lose while they are lying in a hospital bed, fed by intravenous tubes of clear water-removing liquid. I would say that we should all listen to the heart doctors because they do know what they are talking about. You really should give the Americanheartassociation and other heart-minded organizations a try so that you might live a little longer yourself. Also, why don’t you try cooking a piece of chicken without the fat on it and a hamburger and see how much fat comes out of each. You have to use seperate pans or otherwise you will never know which one contains the most fat. I have seen open heart surgeries and that darned layer of fat that sits around the heart muscle of heart patients is sometimes astounding. And the first time that I saw a thick strand of fat being from a vein was a little eery. You could always try speaking with a medical student who is specializing in the heart when they are in their residency because by then they should be able to tell you all sorts of things about the heart and heart patients. When you offer advice which does not come straight from the horses mouth, i.e., the heart surgeon, heart doctor, physician, heart association, etc., you should prepare because you could put your foot in your own.

        • ..” (once a heart or neck artery is clogged it must be manually cleaned out and stented –

          Not necessarily true.. but good info if you want to keep the medical procedures gang and pharmaceutical big boys very rich though.. Check out Dr William Davis at http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/ and learn about changing your life with food – understanding how different foods really work in our bodies and changing how you eat (it’s not what you think either)

          If you are really into being self-reliant, start with breaking away from the industrial food and pharamceutical machine. Stop reading the mainstream media crap on health and nutrition.

      • Primal Clark How’s it going? All great info.. Upward and onward man! Since my turn around in Jan 2010 (started researching in ~April 2009) the puzzle pieces have been forming up. What is very clear now (and was not a time ago) is that my growth and evolution into undertstanding my libertarian nature has been in step with my realizations about the science of food and medicine – and government control of both! Also in parallel, my return to wilderness /bushcraft skills and general preparedness mindset has been in synch with this new/old way I have found. The significance of the change in my health is what makes me so outspoken about this subject when someone brings up health and nutrition. Too bad it took me 40 years to get here.

        • Once again, cool reply, Scout – and – I agree.

          I kind of got the impression SrvivlSally didn’t read the links, maybe someone else who doesn’t know will read them? That would be good.

    • richard muszynski says:

      greetings. hate to disagree, but the farms you are mentioning are not farms as we used to know them. they are corporate farms, huge farms of thousand of acres farmed with huge equipment and usually producing only one product, be it wheat or corn or soybeans. corporate farms do not have diversity and do not have animals such as cattle being raised as well. so no fertilizer of a natural origin. the solution they found was to use chemical fertilizers in enormous amounts. which accounts for a lot of our ground water contamination. the chemical fertilizers are simply washed out of the soil when it rains. and the government has taken a huge number of acres of prime farm land and takes the entire production of that land for growing corn and other crops to produce ethyl alcohol to be used to degrade our gasoline. the alcohol produced costs more to produce then the end product, ethyl alcohol, is worth. and all those acres no longer are in food production. i have read that the amount of land taken out of food production by the government is over a million acres in our prime food belt. we used to sell or give grain to places that needed it in the past. now we have no surplus, not even enough for ourselves. you mention fat people. should also mention Americans, especially children that are dying of starvation here. is no secret. the corporate farms can make more more money with the government subsidy to grow modified corn for the government then for food.

  24. AZ Rookie Prepper says:

    I voted for 2-3 years, but after having read the comments above, would probably change my mind to its already happening. Like many others, I see lots of problems. I do not see much being done to quantitatively or qualitatively fix those problems. Economics are so complex and so interwoven amongst so many different aspects of life (business, govt, international relations, etc) that its is very very difficult to see the “woods” when you have a big leaf in front of your eyes. As others have said, one major sudden issue could tip us over to a difficult to recover from disaster.
    On another note, has anyone here ever seen “the dark knight” posting before? It appeared to me to be “tongue in cheek”…or a commment made to get a discussion rolling. Any comments M.D.?

  25. KansasProud says:

    I voted 1 -2 years. I try to plan for the worst and hope for the best. I believe we are on the path of collapse and I don’t think it will change now no matter who is in office. I feel grief for our country.

  26. I read almost all of the comments before posting this. I voted one year or less. Most of all of you placed blame on Bush, wars, banks, unions, etc. ad nauseum……. but the truth of the matter is that everybody is correct in some regard. But in the bigger picture, if you step back, is that these things would have happened anyway, it is now, in this period of time, that these events are happening rapidly! And by design. One person posted that taxes have not increased and that is true except for that fact that we pay taxes on nearly everything we purchase. From certain foods to utilites to sin taxes and whatever is left over the Fed and State make sure to take that. People are very angry and despondant. That makes for a bitter stew! Sure, some people are not seeing any problems, currently, in their neck of the woods, but deep down, you have to admit that you can feel, taste, problems right around that sharp bend. I am totally sick of the work unsunstainable but it is what it is. And look at the bright side…………….if taxes, wars, unemployment, the bankers don’t get us the Sun just might. Remember the emp’s.

  27. There is no hope, only that which you produce. Depend on none but your self. In the long run it will pay.

    • richard muszynski says:

      greetings. will definitely keep you from being disappointed in those you thought you could count on.

  28. Matt in Oklahoma says:

    Wow I was out for a few days. I came back and kaboom, I saw a poll question and next thing ya know theres a gazillion comments and it looks like someone rang a boxing bell and everyone came out swinging. Why all the hate? Take an easy, it’s tough out here no doubt but no one thing is at fault so dont blame someone for their career choice when they are just trying to do better for their family and don’t get sucked in by the trolls who watch you on this site as their prep. and attempt to drive the wedge between you all when in fact you should be strengthening one another. Once these trolls get the wedge drove in by using race, pay etc drove in they will try and recruit you to their cause using the elite status as the draw such as you are all overweight and we are ripped commandos so join us. Think about it, if they are ripped commandos then where would they be? In the suck, over there, not behind the keyboard looking. No elite anything ever uses these tactics or wants you to be like them.
    Don’t turn on one another, it wont change anything.

    • richard muszynski says:

      greetings. you definitely have that right. divide and conquer. oldest war plan in the world. note though that you will not find actual current warriors, you have wanna be’s. old saying a brave man does not have to brag of his bravery. it is obvious to everyone. and whoever it is not obvious to does not matter. so no need to tell everyone how brave one is. is like a gunfighter in the old west. is no fastest gun, was always someone just a little faster.

  29. robert in mid michigan says:

    went for one to two years but if we can make meaningful change in dc we could avoid total collapse and only have to deal with a a severe recesion and or depression. better to take the medacine earlier than later.

  30. I hope the darknight is kidding, because if not he is living in fantasy land. 4 more years, are you insane dark night. Have your eyes been closed for the past 4 years. Everyone thinks obama does not know what he is doing, that he is an idiot. However, I think he knows exactly what he is doing, which is to destroy this country, one little piece at a time. He is such an obvious socialist that it is not even funny. Please people, wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • I think its even more sinister , I think he is a full blown Communist . Socialists still believe in some self rule , Communists believe in the state and nothing else .

  31. Interestingly, in this same poll about a year ago, the overwhelming majority said the economy would fail in less than two years. Apparently we are still saying that. Shouldn’t a lot of people from the poll a year ago have changed their answer in this year’s poll to reflect the loss of a year? Seems to me more people should have voted for one year or less.

    • AZ Rookie Prepper says:

      Sandyra, If exactly the same people were polled, it might play the way you suggest. However, other factors might be in play in terms of the poll and similar numbers. New folks participating in the poll, old readers not participating, economic situation fluctuations, and numerous other possibilities. It would also change/not change based upon exact wording of the poll too. Regardless, IMHO, we all need to continue prepping and hope for the best, expect the worst.

  32. I’ve been doing some reading on Boeing and the feds trying to prevent them from opening their factory in South Carolina, even though folks in S.C. want the jobs. I now see why you guys refer to Obama as a communist.

    • Yup, it is enraging that the NLRB fouled this deal up. So when Boeing moves to China to cut costs or China starts seriously competing, mark this down as the reason why we can’t get manufacturing to stay in the US. And to be able to say that this continues to be some random act is seriously ridiculous. Hard to not call in a conspiracy.

  33. America is kind of like “Dead man walking”. There is a very simply reason the economy hasn’t collapsed and it’s quite ironic. China is the single biggest investor and they simply won’t let it. They don’t just make everything anymore. They own everything. Economics is not about the welfare of the people or even the country. It’s about money.

  34. It started with FDR. That’s when the train left the tracks. Americans have become infantized. Social Security, welfare, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, unemployment checks, etc, all foster the idea that govenment should take care of us. This state of mind supresses the very thing that built this great nation. Our drive to innovate, explore and produce.
    We are in the midst of collapse right now. During the last great depression people sold apples and pencils on the streets to get money. Today you see garage sales, items placed on front lawns with “for sale” signs on them and flea markets where people are selling their no longer used items. If you want to see the modern day bread line, be at Walmart on the first of the month.
    This is it people, we are witnessing collapse right now! It has begun.

  35. i beleve the country will be ok in the long term we have gone through theese cyles be fore but for me a whitemale 52 poorly educated-untranable for the new world that is emeging the amarican dream is done for us and will not be back so must sirvive on the sysem as best we can and when thats done bug-out to the woods someplase and hope to die a natueral death,of corce rapture could ocure before then and we wount need to wory about it

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