How far are we from a total collapse of our economy?

Three Years After Lehman, a New Debt Crisis Looms, Fear Sets In, Panic Begins, Ruin Perceived, Prepare for Gold $2100,  3-2-1 Global Meltdown  :sweat:

Every day we read the media headlines and news reports predicting economic doom, but the question remains – how long (years, months, weeks, or days) do we have before a total economic collapse?

I want to know what you think…?:-)

How far are we from a total collapse of our economy?

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Please feel free to elaborate on your answer in the comments below… What do you think will be the tipping point and when?

About M.D. Creekmore

M.D. Creekmore is the owner and editor of He is the author of four prepper related books and is regarded as one of the nations top survival and emergency preparedness experts. Read more about him here.


  1. The Dark Knight says:

    I voted “Never We Will Spend Forever” that is what we have been doing for decades and will continue to do so. We are the beacon of the world and we can not and will not fail. All we need is four more years of the Obama’s to get it a straightened out. After all it took Bush 8 years to get us into this situation and it will take Obama 8 to get us out. Have faith in him people he can work miracles. You’ll see.

    • He’s here all week folks! Don’t forget to tip your waitress!

    • Yeah, Right.

    • The miracle is that the US economy has yet to collapse, despite his inept leadership.

    • Muddy Fork says:

      I like sarcasm.

    • TexasScout says:

      “damn, I really bit my tongue that time…”

    • Hahahaa,
      Obviously this is ‘tongue in cheek’. Problem is, some of the sheeple that I know, will believe this ’til the end. Nothing, I repeat, nothing, will change their minds. ‘Blame Bush’ is their motto.

    • templar knight says:

      Yep, Jesus Christ re-incarnated on this Earth in the man Barack Obama. Or should I have said Mohammed?

      • Every time I see Obummer on TV tooting his own horn I buy a box of ammo…I’M GOING BROKE! I hope this guys being sarcastic. Obama DEFINITELY has a religious following, so did ‘ol Jim Jones. I for one won’t drink the kool aid!

      • templar knight…..

        Mohanned? Try Hussein; and wasn’t “Barack” the name of Mohammed’s horse that he rode to paradise? Will coincidences ever cease?

    • More like…it has taken all our politicians, from all parties, over 200 years to get get us into this situation, and nobody has made ANY progress at getting us out, because the solutions to the problems amount to political suicide, and so far NONE of them have been willing to sacrifice their own careers to save the nation. You keep your faith in the system…I prefer “Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition”

      • The Gnasher says:

        It’s not just their careers that the Politicians stand to lose, is it just a coincidence that every President that has tried to upset or curtail the power of that well known private company, The Federal Reserve, has been assassinated?,and more often than not that includes foreign leaders too

      • raoulartsmith says:

        A voice of reason and understanding! Thanks for your comment!

    • I’m afraid I’m going to have to disagree. Obama has amassed more useless debt than any president in modern history. This year alone we have a $1 trillion deficit.

      By useless debt I mean debt that has not trickled down to Americans. It has trickled up FROM US to the corporations, overseas banks, to the elite. The middle class & lower upper classes are being robbed blind by this administration.

      His support of QE1 & QE2 has led to rampant inflation.

      Welfare and food stamp recipients are up by 30+%. The current govt wants it that way. They WANT to give them our hard earned money! The new “catch” phrase the obama administration is using is that they are our “federal family”. Wow.

      Don’t forget the 3rd, new, non-Congressionally approved war that is costing us hundreds of billions that we don’t have.

      His regulations are increasing our energy prices, stifiling economic growth, stifiling business growth and will take YEARS to recover from.

      It might take us 8 years to get over Bush but it will take us 80 years to get over obama’s regime.

      Throw the bum out in 2012. If not, I hope you like socialism because that is exactly what you will get. Kiss your liberty goodbye.

      • Quote GA Mom “Don’t forget the 3rd, new, non-Congressionally approved war that is costing us hundreds of billions that we don’t have.”
        Sorry I must have lost count. The war on drugs, on poverty [or was that the poor] on inflation, on law abiding gun owners, on coal miners, on small business owners, on polution, Afganistan, Iraq, New Orleans, the GOP, these ‘wars’ are costing us far more than billons or in fact mere money. Please help me with my count which was the third?

      • GA Mom, Now you’re really not being fair here! The Dark Lord promised 1 million new jobs in August 2010. The Dark Lord promised we would build green industry. The Dark Lord swore that our electricity would ‘necessarily skyrocket’ so we could stamp out all that dirty electricity so we have green everything.

        Please reconsider, GA Mom! Don’t think he hasn’t given us anything because the seas are getting ready to part, he’s going to promise another million jobs next week on live-TV, and he’ll find some more taxpayer money to cover those pesky little bankruptcies at those green factories that just bellied-up.

        Just give him a chance….Hopenchange….

      • GA Mom,
        Here’s a concurring opinion:

    • Hastings MN. says:

      I think you need to do more research.

    • Are you serious!!!???

    • Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Oh, thank you. I needed a good laugh today!

    • DK – Hope you are right – I would like us to be a bit better treated by our own government.

    • You should change your name to the The Dumb Knight.

    • I want to know who you buy crack from

    • Dark Knight……

      You’ve got to be kidding????

    • This was obviously intended as a joke. I wish I had thought of it. LOL

    • richard muszynski says:

      Greetings. i agree that we will continue to spend forever. but totally disagree with this post. Bush got us into this disaster immediately on getting in office illegally. Supreme court had no jurisdiction to put him in office which they did. Obama has been in office for years now and still is totally useless as far as doing anyone but himself and friends any good. he follows slavishly the immoral and illegal course laid down by Bush. why in the world would you think he would suddenly realize he is not Bush and actually honor his oath on taking the office he is proven to not be even marginally capable of filling? four more years in office will not make him a better man or a actual president instead of simply Bush’s boy in office. as for why i voted that we would continue to spend and the SHTF will never happen is the American people are so appathetic that you cannot force them to react as thinking humans would. we will continue on the course, no matter how degrading it is or how badly it affects our children. we as a people have no other course open to us. all other courses would require courage and we are so lacking in that as to be laughable.

      • Hunker-Down says:

        “the American people are so appathetic that you cannot force them to react as thinking humans would.”

        And what tribe are you from?

      • richard muszinsky….

        Sounds like you would have prefered a liberal Florida Supreme Court be allowed to change the Florida rules and give Gore a victory he hadn’t really won? And don’t forget the media group who, after the election and at their own expense, did a recount in Florida to see by how much Gore would have won….had the Florida Supreme Court been allowed to change the rules. Bush won by more than they was originally thought. And all that because the morons voting for Gore didn’t know how to punch a hole in a piece of paper. The US Supreme Court did it’s job…that is to oversee the lower courts and that includes a “run amok Florida Supreme Court”!!!!!!

        • richard muszynski says:

          sounds like i would have preferred it to have been a honest election. i take it you weren’t watching the recount when the white shirted and black slacks republicans from out of state came in with baseball bats and forceable stopped the recount with threats of harm to the recounters. and that while Florida state troops stood by and smiled for the camera? you think that was right? change the Florida rules? what rule says that a state has a right to force a recount to be terminated before it is completed? never heard of that one. and how about electing the president and not having the courts do it. this is not Russia, where they do that.

    • Yo Dark Knight…….you’re smokin crack man

    • Well we know who to get our drug’s from but we better get thrire soon cause he is using the good stuff now

  2. I’m curious to see what the poll says, but did not vote. I’ve made a conscious decision to not get into the notion of prediction about when I might need survival skills or gear, or when bad things might happen. The bad stuff will happen when it is inconvenient and poorly timed for whatever plans I have made. I need to be ready now, at least within the range of my resources (i.e., Bison Survival Blog’s “worst gear” concept). All additional efforts are to trade up in terms of gear and skills. For me, the prediction business encourages me to think “I’ll get to that next month”, which is a bad habit for me that I’m trying to break.

  3. Wow! I’m assuming DK’s comment is more “tongue-in-cheek”. At least I hope so. Not sure we can afford another 4 years of obamanomics.

  4. Tom the Tinker says:

    Such a grim choices MD. ….I voted 2 to 3 years. I trust my Govt. to do what ever is needed… anything.. in order to maintain the status quo until after the next election cycle.

    I’m just asking to spur on the conversation…. does “Collapse” really mean we have to hunker down and hope? May it also simply.. if such events could be called ‘simple’.. envolve a resetting of our banking and ‘money’ system. I really wanna see what ever transition is made go a quietly as the inner cities will allow.

    MD, I have been visiting this site for sometime and benefited from it and everyones opinion. In truth Sir, I sometimes let myself drift into a state of ‘Normalcy Bias’ when I simply don’t want to ‘handle’ the reality of what I am prepping for. Who of us have not stacked another bucket of rice and shuddered at the thought of how bad things will have to get, that we need.. to open it? ( OK fellow preppers, don’t cut my ears off. Heres another question: Who of us really want to hunker down anywhere.. eating MRE stew, waiting for the beans to soak.. ear cocked to the faint crackle of small arms fire drifting in on a smoky breeze. ) Damn… I like that…. I could write a book if I could spell!

    I surf in and out of blogs like, SGTBull and his links, Shadow govt. stats, Drudge, CME… and more. I have to say the collective opinion, logic and math.. DATA.. are painfully… collective. Whoda thought we would be living through this cycle of history. Whoda want to.

    Gawd help us all the day this screen goes blank. What ever the timing of it…. stack deep and keep the other things lightly oiled.

    Your humble reader and servant.. a fellow of good humor and simple tastes….
    Thomas T. Tinker

    • mountain lady says:

      Also try reading The Daily Bell, and ZeroHedge, for some other interesting views.

    • HeyMickey59 says:

      Tom the Tinker…you write it, I’ll edit it for you. You seem to have your head on straight and I always enjoy reading what you write. 🙂

  5. I feel that the economy can be eased. But there are so many sub-catagories under the economy that just one of them could cause it to go kaput.

  6. Hate to tell you Dark Knight.. Obama and his gang are only making things worse. All this spending has done nothing except help unions. The little guy, small business and family’s are dieing on the vine. Government is getting bigger and taxes are going up. And the value of the dollar is getting smaller just the packages of food in the stores.

    • unions are the big winners? tell that to all the public union employees who are having their benefits cut, contracts cancelled, and collective bargaining rights terminated.

      actual tax rates have not increased; to say otherwise is incorrect at best and dishonest at worst. implied future tax liabilities have increased. there’s a difference and you should honestly assess the situation in light of those differences.

      • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

        sam, while SOME public-sector union memebers are experiencing cuts to benefits, contract cancelations, and collective bargaining “rights” curtailed (not terminated, so please don’t exaggerate), employees in the private sector have lost their jobs, their benefits, their retirements, etc. So you can cry about the cuts to union benefits all you want, at least you guys still have your jobs. Obama and his cronies are killing off this country and “to say otherwise is incorrect at best and dishonest at worst.”

        Taxes have gone up, my pension check is being taxed this year when it was not last year, and the money taken out is going to the federal government. Please explain how that isn’t a tax increase.

        • i’m not a union member, but nice try.

          union members don’t design economic systems. they don’t design systems of production. they don’t create products. they don’t market products. they don’t do anything but do a job.

          blaming blue collar workers for the state of the world is a pathetic straw man argument.

          • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

            I’m not blaming blue collar workers. You said PUBLIC union “employees” (actually, they are members of unions, not employees of unions) were losing benefits, etc. Now you switch the debate to blue collar workers. Make up your mind. Are you talking blue collar private sector union members or public sector union members? Public sector means government, not necessarily blue collar. Obviously you need to do some more homework.

      • Sam, those “benefit cuts” you are discussing are still very rich benefits. Far above what I get in the private sector and I pay much more for them. What is true about the spoiled brats in Wisconsin is that they haven’t paid attention to the true cost of health insurance and the economy. Candidly, I sit here watching that appalling side show there and think only, gee, Obama is sending his henchman there and paying them to protest………leaving behind a big pile of trash that some janitors are going to have to clean up. And to watch teachers bring their students to those protests without the consent of their parents only shows how arrogant they are.

        Add on to that this economy is going to require sacrifice on everybody’s part……..including Wisconsin teachers………..they need to get over it and get on with it. I have no patience with them and absolutely no sympathy. That whole thing is what I call a Hollywood Riot, not real, not based upon true conditions of the day.

        And if unions are all so wonderful, try talking to the employees of Saturn. Who watched Roger Pensky try to save their asses and the union wouldn’t bend…………so they too are now out of a job………….all of em! Unions had their place back in the day when there were children working in sweatshops in this country, now those same sweatshops are overseas. And unions now are breaking the backs of most small businesses in this country every chance they get…………they could care less about the workers………..they care about making sure that they get $$ out of your paycheck with or without your consent.

        • these are blue collar guys and gals using the only power they have (the power of numbers) to make as good a life for themselves as possible.

          managers are praised for their hard-nosed negotiating tactics and you cite roger pensky as some sort of atlas figure, but when union members do the same thing they’re reviled.

          i’m calling you out on a double standard.

          • robert in mid michigan says:

            the problem i have with it is public sector unions do not answer to the people who are their bosses. they answer to a politician who buys votes by giving the unions what they want. are public union members giving up anything when those who pay thier wages are making decisions between making a house payment or putting food on the table. they cry about having to start paying taxes on thier pensions (father in law was corrections officer for 25 years) for the first time atleast state taxes not sure on fed. here in michigan. and complaining that his tax on 7600 per month is way to high although he never paid a penny into the pension. if he is making that kind of money (have never looked at the paystub nor really looked into it because i get real angry over the situation.)

            a few years ago they wined and cried because they were no longer going to get a free lunch while at work they were going to have to pay 75 cents. i am sorry but when the public unions look at the thier small problems and feel we should foot the bill while in that same period my insurance costs doubled for worse coverage. my hourly pay went from 20 to 15 that year adventually to zero as thier is no construction work. when you go from 60k plus a year to 20k i really dont care that you only got a 3 percent raise, your insurance didnt change and now i only have to subsidize your lunch instead of paying for all of it. oh and your pension is getting taxed just like my income. sorry good people or not you do not deserve to live better than the people paying your salery.

            • I live in a right to work state , the company I work for is a medium sized ” mom & pop ” . They only keep a core group of people permanently employed ( im one ) and pull in people as they need them with the understanding its temporary . The woman that owns the company is not only a great person to work for but also a good friend ( to all of us ) , the co owner and her husband is also a great guy . Everything that happens in the company is an open book , they have shop meetings 3 times a week , and any topic is open for discussion . Because of the kind of people they are and the atmosphere they have created , everybody pulls their weight 120% and will go the extra mile if needed . The owners know what they are doing and are frequently right there with us doing it as well as running the business . They dont tolerate any infighting and everybody is an equal player , a team , we get paid a fair wage . Long story short , it starts from the top , and those to keep it running at the bottom , you dont pull your weight , you shouldn’t be there . Worked on union job sites where we had to pair up one of theirs for every one of ours , those guys dont answer to anybody , they are whiners and half ( being generous ) are lazy . One guy working , three guys watching , standing around with their thumb up their _$$ . You cant fire them , all you can do is swap them out . Screwed up system , and thats not even in the public sector . Give me right to work state any day . No whining or bickering about whose job it is to do what , you just do it and if your lazy , you get fired .

        • Worrisome,

          I agree with you. But I think there is a bigger picture. As you note, labor unions in this country have gotten too fat. Unions did fine work decades ago. But not today. They are breaking the backs of the owners of small business.

          To see the flip side, because of the explosion of “union rights” companies have moved production out of the U.S. Why put up with all the union bullshit? Just close down the factories in the U.S. and open factories in Chile or some other third world country.

          The point here is that outsourcing is a reaction to the overblown union demands. The impact of outsourcing is that U.S. companies have loads of money in offshore accounts. And they keep that money offshore so they don’t have to pay taxes.

          Our entire system is screwed up. And no politician can fix it because to take such drastic action would be unpopular. Such action would be political suicide.

          I am not sure any of this rambling will make that much difference. I suspect that the 2012 election will turn out to be a no-brainer. I can envision no scenario that wouldn’t put a Republican in the White House. Here’s the reasoning. Obama won in 2008 based on two demographics, young women and African Americans. Recent poles show that Obama’s approval rating from young women which had been 71 percent when he look office is down to 23 percent. The other demographic, African Americans, are hurting too badly to get out and vote. I suspect that a significant majority of blacks in America voted for Obama simply because he is black. But blacks feel that Obama has not done enough to help black America. It is reasonable to conclude that support from these two demographics has eroded to the point where Obama doesn’t have a chance in hell.

          And I voted for Obama.

          • Thing is in that election , it was like Ronald Regan vs. Jimmy Carter . After 8 years of Bush , what does the GOP do ? it gets a Bush clone in the form of McCain to run with an obnoxious running mate that should have done like all good VPs ……….stand in the background and shut up ! Again , Obummer is a good orator and it wasn’t hard to make the angry midget McCain look like a monkey in the debates . Soooooooo long story short …… everybody was sick of Bush and were willing to take a chance on Obummer because they already knew what Bush/McCain was like . McCain had already run for president I think twice before and lost both times , but yet the GOP didnt look at that and get that there is something unpalatable about John McCain to the american people .

            • templar knight says:

              T.R., I understand what you are saying regards McCain, but he was selected through a primary process. The voters decided. That’s the way the system works. Of course, McCain had the support of the media for the Republican nomination, but had no support from the media after he was selected. All the free media publicity went to the Kenyan(and I use that word to describe his world view, not his race).

          • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

            “And I voted for Obama.” No surprise there, Gayle.

  7. This is the hardest part to predict. IF we had a good election and got Ron Paul into the WH and a few more Tparty congress critters, I suspect we could turn things aroud almost over night. By doing away with NAFTA and CAFTA and WTO and all of that CRAP that has destroyed industry in OUR country in leu of idustry at the world level, wecould garner back a lot of what we have lst and promote our own economy. Also, if wecease to send billions or mayb e more overseas to countries that want to kill us and use that money here at home to help our sick, homeless and destitute in the US, I believe we could once again have the highest standard of living ever acheived On the other hand, another four years f this crap and say there will be strife and soldiers of some flavor in our streets. Just my thoughts on the matter.

    • If we get ANYONE conservative in office next year, I predict that the libs will absolutely go Loughner and seperate (even further) from reality. This will include trying to undermine EVERYTHING the conservatives are willing to try, no matter the logic. Obama may actually “manufacture” a crisis to declare nationwide martial law and declare himself king and god of us all…

      • robert in mid michigan says:

        i know this is a popular thing he will declare himself almighty but when you join the service and swear your oath ( any public sector job actually) you swear to uphold the constitution not the pres. the senator or what have you. the military is governed by the constitution and yes he could declare marshal law and buy some time but they will remove him from office if he (or anyone ) were to try this. its not realistic to think that anyone could try this and get away with it, they would have to have the military in their back pocket and Obama for one doesnt even reagan could not have pulled off a coupe.

      • Exile1981 says:

        I’ve been telling the other half the same thing.

        If Obama looses the election his cult members and the OWS crowd will go crazy and start destroying cities, which O will use as a basis for martial law and a crack down that results in him as dictator for life. The last election was the last free election the US is likely to see for a while.

    • if the GOP does not get a powerful and above all , charismatic candidate to run against Obummer , The GOP will loose . Ron Paul has good ideas but has the personality of a dead tree , Obummer will eat him alive with words in a debate . Thats all Obummer is good for is talk , but he IS good at it . Dont know which would be more scary , Obummer again or Romney trying to flip flop his way through a first term . I would also be hesitant to vote for somebody who is too old .

      • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

        I like Rand Paul, Ron’s senator son. He would make a great president. Rand Paul should be drafted to run.

        • mountain lady says:

          The MSM would just ignore him the same as they do Ron Paul. Ron Paul was left off a major poll last week.

      • Ron Paul is a Libertarian and while our economic and Constitutional views may merge I can not accept his open borders, legal drugs, and mostly his Nevile Chamberlain foriegn policies. When you stick your head in the sand your butt is just begging to be kicked.
        I really think Paul is Dennis Kerspiniches twin brother, Bless thier hearts, I can not figure out which one had the umbellical cord around their neck the longest.

  8. Tom the Tinker says:

    The Light House at Alexandria… the Colossus of Rhoades… the Light at Rockaway Pt. Beacons.. all of them. I’m not ‘flaming’ you Sir Knight but are you serious!?!

  9. Spoke to my grandma a couple years ago about what it was like to fall into the Great Depression. She said that it seemed like overnight the banks failed and business just stopped. Cars, too, since gasoline was dear. Luckily she lived on a farm and they were able to produce most of what they ate. Her relatives from the city travelled out to the farm to beg for food. Her father had one penny to his name and had to ask for credit at the grocery store so they could buy necessities. She also mentioned that fabric was hard to come by and that they had to make their own clothes. I think this could happen to us one day in the near future, what with the european debt crisis and our state of political gridlock, and I think it would happen faster than expected (like it did in Grandma’s youth).

    • HeyMickey59 says:

      Yes, I think that when it happens it will be similar. We would not keep any decent amount of money in the bank. It’s more comforting to sleep on it, knowing where it is, even if it can’t buy much! 🙂 ps…I haven’t voted either because it’s just too scary to think that hard about it. Prep til you drop!

      • Thanks for writing me back! The amazing part of the story (besides getting a first-hand account of how TSHTF from my grandma, who was 11 or 12 at the time) was how fast everything fell apart. She described it as an almost overnight change. Cars stopped, businesses stopped, no one had any money and people got desperate FAST. I saw a little of that myself when the housing bubble here in Florida burst – we had several banks fail, mine included. I woke up one day and had a notice from the bank and the FDIC about my assets being moved to a Receiving bank.

        I am a new prepper and am still learning my way. I don’t know when things will go sideways, but until then I will continue to educate myself and bit by bit work on my store of food and necessities. Hey, I figure that prepping’s good for hurricanes, government collapse, and whatever other troubles come my way. Right now I am learning about water filtration methods and memorizing/field testing my Florida edible plants guide.

        • BEW,

          Where do you live in Florida? I am in Gainesville.

          • Hi Gayle!

            I’m in the Tampa/Clearwater/Saint Pete area. Our state necessitates disaster plans and prepping, don’t you think? I got into prepping because of hurricane awareness, and then it grew from there. How about you?

            I know lots of people think Florida is a terrible state to live in if TEOTWAWKI happens, but I disagree! We have such biodiversity down here. I am a newbie, but I could walk out of my house and eat fine on our local flora and fauna right now, no matter the season.

            • What if the scenario were a nuclear power plant failure which contaminates the water? Never say never and always be prepared. I don’t know you but if you’re bright enough to be here, then you’re bright enough know everything changes. So you’re in the right place with folks who care. Welcome, I look forward to watching your growth 🙂

            • BEW,

              I have always prepped for hurricanes–at least since Andrew came through. It’s the economy that really got me started–food prices in particular.

              I am happy living in Florida. I just couldn’t stand the cold winters. I couldn’t imagine having to wait until April or May to put in a garden.

    • I find your comment that your grandma’s city relatives came to the farm begging for food to be very interesting. I actually anticipate that happening to us, too. I don’t live on a “farm,” but I’m in a rural area, and most of my relatives know that I am better prepared than they. I suspect at least a few will show up at my doorstep after shit+fan, expecting us to take them in.

      I haven’t adequately prepared for this scenario, but I have given it some thought. It annoys me to no end that people don’t bother preparing for the future, then expect to sponge off of those who do. But I don’t see myself turning away siblings and cousins just because they’re sheeple. And, no man is an island. We’re going to need manpower around here if we want to stay prepared and on guard.

      Ugh. I hate thinking about this.

  10. button crazy says:

    I have just finished reading an e-mail from a friend that contains how much it cost the American gov. to send the First Lady and her children and friends + family to Spain, India, The Cape and Christmas in Hawaii. While some of the America people can not put food on the table. We cannot retire like our parents. Our grandchild will never be able to get as far ahead in life as their grandparents of the Baby Boom generation. I fully expect not to be able to live as good as I have in the past. Dark Knight you want another four years of this man as president of America. Please!!!!!!!!! You need to read more, listen more, and see what we headed for.

    • It’s OK. The first lady (it pains me to say that) will have all debts forgiven. I just got wind of a new house bill called something like the American Recovery Act or some such nonsense. Anyways the meat of it is that the Feds will take a 1% tax (oops, I mean fee) on EVERY bank transaction. Use your debit card for some groceries, 1% to the feds. Put a deposit for $500 in the bank, $5 to the Feds. Good stuff.

      • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

        Plus, the feds will tax home sales by 3% if the sale exceeds a certain set amount. Of course, the set amount will decrease through the years and the tax rate will increase through the years. Obama has got to go in 2012 and anybody who voted for him should be voted off the island as well.

        • I agree Lint Picker. If they start taxing transactions most of us will resort to barter. And yes that homes sales tax is in the Obama Care Health Bill if you can believe……….sitting there hiding waiting to be sprung……

          • riverrider says:

            you missed that under obamacare, when your health insurance(if you can afford it then) pays the bill, it counts as INCOME, subject to the income tax!!! so, you make it thru cancer chemo. by some miracle, insurance pays the 200k bill. you owe taxes on that 200k. just how do you plan to pay that, paper or plastic? or a kidney?

      • Yeah I have seen the bill and it is scary. They took a note from the banks “penalty fees” I’m not jumping on the politics attack but this on here of all taxes is crazy. Living in California is bad enough with taxes, they just finally removed one percent of state sales tax that was generated from an state emergency fund that was approved by voters and I was shocked that they actually did that. I have been the victim of identity theft so I prefer using cash over the card but there are times where its needed. The fed recovery fee on debit cards is an attack on the poor and middle class that refuses to use or can’t get a credit card.

  11. Good excercise! If you had offered “I don’t know”, that’s the one I’d have checked. I’m convinced that our money managers, in their waffling and delays, are trying to hold it all together and hoping that some combination of inflation and growth, over time, will give us the soft landing we’re all hoping for. These are pretty clever folks, and maybe they can pull it off. But, there are so many things to go wrong that they’ll have to be lucky as well as clever. So, good luck to them.

  12. TDK, you forgot the /sarcasm tag

  13. I also voted forever, but I feel I must explain my vote.

    The reason I voted “forever” is because I don’t think there will be a single point in time where we will say something like “at 08:00 on the 5th was when the economy collapsed”. Not that we need to be that exact anyway, but my point is, I think our economy will languish in a quasi-collapsed state indefinately. There will always be a large enough number of people who will vote for whoever promises them the most free shit, and there will always be canidates for office that are willing to say that “this is the compationate way” who will accept those votes (and give as much free shit as they can to continue getting elected).

    It is said that the lie of socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money to spend. In America, they have been borrowing like money grows on trees, and squeezing the citizens for everything they can get. Eventually, the money will dry up and they will have to reduce spending, but they will reduce it as little as possible. The effect of this will be that NOBODY gets what they want. Those who want the free shit won’t be happy because there “just isn’t as much as there used to be” and everyone else will continue to be squeezed for as much as the government can get.

    No, the economy isn’t going to collapse, its going to quietly sag.


    • Tom the Tinker says:

      STK: You make a cogent point there…. could I read that “..quietly sag..” as “.. out with a whimper”..?

  14. I voted 6 months or less for one simple reason, I do not believe in perpetual growth. Everything is cyclical, that which is born will die and for every smile, there is a tear. It is illogical to me that the Americas in general, actually all countries/nations which could be viewed as “advanced societies”, be in a state of perpetual growth. Sustaining this illusion will and does have repercussions, with or without our leaders want to admitting to it or not. As many countries go hungry, we in the “developed” nations fill our days with hedonistic gluttonous excess. There is no balance in this, eventually a new balance will be found, and me, I’d prefer it happen sooner rather than later.

  15. DK, thanks for the best laugh I’ve had all summer. September could prove to be a pretty good month if it starts out on such a humorous note.

    I voted 1-2 years as I think it will happen in 2012, probably Summer or early-Autumn, but some won’t fully accept it until 2013. Being an election year there will be a lot of tactics used to soften the blow, recover from it quickly, and maybe even deny it entirely.

  16. James from Iowa says:

    That’s a hard one to pin down. I’ve had a ‘gut feeling’ that the collapse would be imminent..for decades now. I’m really surprised the gig has lasted as long as it has. The game of the fed creating money out of nothing can keep the train going…for a while…but, for crying out loud, there’s GOT to be a limit somewhere that we turn into zimbabwe(or whatever).

  17. I noted 1 to 2 years as I fear if 0(zero)bama is reelected in 2012 it won’t be long before the printing press flood gates will be cast wide open and our (almost free market)economy will die. That I fear is what the so-called Progressives want(Cloward and Piven and company).

    The Dark Lord , is (hopefully being facetious) severely mistaken and oh, so misguided.

  18. Sorry, the Dark Knight, not the Dark Lord.

  19. I voted for 6 months or less. Europe’s economy is on the brink of disaster. Bank of America also. If either of those goes, it will create a domino effect. Bad recessions usually start in the fall. We have less than 55 days of food reserves worldwide and there have been 2 bad crop years in a row. Also, it appears China has been preparing to attack us with missiles, unless that was just their SHTF backup strategy. The Dark Lord is supposed to announce a jobs policy today before a joint session of Congress. In the past, presidents reserved the joint sessions of Congress for declarations of war, so either Obummer is being a drama queen, or he’s going to drop a bombshell on us. We shall see…

  20. I want some of what you’re smoking…………………

    • I voted for 6 months. The economy is so fragile now all it will take is an interist rate hike to kill it or something come up that we have not seen.I think our econemy will fall by design not accident. And the dark lord will do all he can to bring it to fruition.

      • riverrider says:

        axel, his right hand man has been spouting that in order to “fix” the country you have to tear it down first at college campus’ around the country. i really think we’re already done unless a real candidate rises to the occassion. it’s really pretty simple to fix but not “politically correct”.

  21. I didn’t answer. My answer would be invalid because it would be an uneducated guess. My guess is if they do another bank bail out in 0-6 months it will take almost 2 years to feel the effects. The inflation we are feeling right now is from the first bank out – according to my boss who is dealing with government contracts and the people he knows. So my guess is for the next 6 months prices are going to start rising. Within 18 months quantive easying II effects will start taking effect causing prices to rise and another round of layoffs as companies are trying to make ends meet.

    In two years people will be at a breaking point, though if Obama’s plan for a quantive easying II continuation happens We will be near hyperinflation levels by 2 1/2 to 3 years. So it depends on how together you are when you truly start feeling it.

    My conclusion is that shtf has already begun for the working poor and will be in full effect for them within 6 months. They will be forced onto food stamps or food banks and start defaulting on bills they can no longer afford.

    The middle class might not feel anything noticeable until about 18 months and feeling the forces to be in about 2 years where they are struggling even with cutting out eating out and other luxuries.

    The upper middle class may not feel it until complete hyperinflations if they manage to keep their jobs during the downsizing and don’t have to take a pay cut. Most of these people will be owners of small businesses and may already be living below there means and have their houses paid off and are prepared, others will sink to being poor.

    Once the massives are all on welfare (yes snap/foodstamps is welfare) they will buy less and less. Soon enough you’ll be lucky if it buys a 1/3 of a months groceries.

    So I guess SHTF when be within 3 years with the effects already being felt at the low waged end.

  22. I didn’t vote because I couldn’t figure out which one would fit how I think. I feel we are already in a collapse and things will just keep getting worse and worse without anything too dramatic happening.
    As an example, Infrastructure. The roads are getting so bad where I am at that they are buckling and breaking apart and you drive them at normal speeds at your own risk.
    Crime is so bad now that we can’t leave the house or return without being on high alert. It was even nervewracking waiting in the car at the health food store the day before the welfare checks came in.
    So I really don’t have a clue as to when total collapse will happen.
    Just be assured it will happen and probably when we least expect it.

    • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

      I agree, Judith, we are in the collapse and have been for awhile. It has been a downward spiral since 2007. Additionally, one major natural or manmade disaster and the spiral will escalate exponentially. Say the drought in the OK and TX area worsens, or the terrorists pull off another successful attack ala 9/11, or a quake destroys So. Cal (I can only hope), then the economy goes into a tailspin and that’s all she wrote for this country and Western Civilization.

      Judith, are streets are paved with gold, come on up. 🙂

      • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

        Duh, that should say “Judith, OUR streets are paved with gold, come on up” Sheesh.

      • LP, My Grandfather used to say ” the reason the grass is greener on the other side of the fence is usually an abundance of naturally occurring fertilizer over there…” I wonder if that’s true of golden streets too? 🙂 (just teasing, I love your comments, and I come from north of the bridge myself)

        • Hunker-Down says:

          Omo Bob,

          Maybe your grandfather was talking about congress?

        • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

          Thank you, Bob. My street was in such bad repair the other day that I literally had to patch the potholes in front of my house. When/if the city public works department finds out about that I’ll probably be fined for infringing on the working rights of their union employees or some other trumped-up charge. To which I will turn my back and drop my drawers and tell them to kiss my keester.

          • templar knight says:

            The picture you just put in my mind is hilarious! Hope you’re not one of us fat, white guys that upset sam so much. Methinks he might be one of those city public works employees.

  23. No More Koolaid says:

    If the government had any leadership we may be able to eek through but I have no faith in the governments ability to take care of me. They can barely take care of themselves. As far as spending forever, well, I have seen no money trees. All one has to do is look at the fate of Argentima a decade ago and that is our destiny. Faith in any political figure is a waste of hope. There will only be change…and that should be enough to frighten anyone.

  24. Well… not my economy, so I won’t vote… but I would say that a lot could depend on what happens in about 10 days and if some group or other decides to make a statement. For a whole lot of people it hit the fan last week with Irene. I saw young people in Vermont walking out from their mountain homes with knapsacks and kids saying they had been told 8-10 mnhs to restore services and roads and they did not have the means to stay… a lesson in being prepared.

    Hope everyone else who reads this came through the hurricane/earthquake/tornado safely.

    • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

      Where you been, Lake Lili? How’s Monkey? How are you? Missed your comments the last week or two. Good to hear from you!

  25. templar knight says:

    I didn’t pick any of the choices. I truly think we will go the way of Argentina/Venezuela, which will be a sinking economy more and more under the control of the central government. Crime will explode, illegal immigration will worsen, communities will be destroyed, resources will be exported to foreign powers like China, and citizens of this country will suffer food and energy depravation.

    All the things we now enjoy will go away as we sink further into third world status. As preppers we take these things into consideration, so we should have a food supply, weapons, hard currency, water, alternate sources of energy, and most of all live in a community of LMI. Living alone in an isolated retreat will be the most dangerous thing you can do, as help cannot come to you when needed. Having good neighbors is the best strategy for survival, IMHO.

    • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

      Amen, brother.

    • blindshooter says:

      TK, you have articulated my thoughts much better than I can relate them. My plan is to get out of debt and stay that way, build up a good store of food and have a way to get water without electricity. I want things to last long enough for me to save enough to buy a couple-three acres outright to live on(still near my family and friends). I still have a decent job but I don’t think it will last through another serious economic downturn so I’m working toward living without any steady income. I may have to move again if I lose my job, but it won’t be as catastrophic as this one is, I won’t have so much useless stuff to dispose of. I pray the world don’t fall into war or a world wide economic collapse. We are toast for sure in either scenario IMO.

  26. Gee D.Knight, that you commented this way is almost as scary as the prospect of TEOTWAWKI. My fear is that you take yourself seriously, and don’t really have a respect for preparing for anything. When the power is out for weeks, the civil unrest can’t be controlled, the stores are closed and or looted, when you are cold-hot-hungry-lack shelter-thirsty,
    you will have wished you had planned better.

  27. Nobody, including the current incumbent, can get us out of this. It’s set in stone now. It hasn’t taken one person 8 years to get us into this, it’s taken dozens of people decades. There IS no tipping point. It will be a long slow decline like Argentina, Zimbabwe, Rome and many other countries.

    More jobs will be lost, prices of just about everything will go up, because money has been created out of NOTHING by MULTIPLE presidents and their Federal Reserve friends. People need to stop burying their heads in the sand and start accepting FACTS.

    People need to admit there IS a problem before you can go about fixing it, and right now, most people are still in denial.

  28. Well Dark Knight , you missed the point. It will NOT matter who is in . Both parties are corrupt. We need a third party elected. Most likely that also will not happen . One world order is the name of the game. This is run by a select few. A special club and you and I are not in it.

  29. Our whole economy is based on willfull ignorance of limited resources and incredibly unjust and unsustainable accumulation of wealth by banks. We will keep clapping for tinkerbell as long as we can – until the last home is foreclosed or no one wants any more sovereign debt. Either that or people get hungry and start to take to the streets.

    We’ll see.

    • Mike, Can you explain to me, How does a bank make money on a forclosed home?

      • Right now they don’t make money. There is no one to sell to. If they foreclose enough and prices drop and people start to buy again, they might get something out of it. For right now both banks and home owners are caught in a depressed market.

        • Lets break this down
          A bank loaned 350,000 for a home. A year later the home forclosed. Two years later, the home eventually sells for 150,000. That means someone lost 200,000. How does anyone make money on this?

      • What I dont get is the fact that they prefer to seemingly ” take it in the pants ” instead of working with the home owner to pay them . They dont try to negotiate or work out any arrangement . So given that fact , there must be something in it for them or they would work with people instead of taking the house back .

        • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

          Good observation, T.R. I suspect that what’s in it for the banks is another big bailout by the taxpayers thanks to the federal gooberment. I can hear the banksters whining now, “we need another bailout because we took it in the shorts in order to give homes to the needy” or some other sob story. Watch for QE3 and a big stock boost for banke.

          • Aye that ! banks and corporations like GMC ( government money charity ) need to go under . Its called the free enterprise system and correction . Corrections need to occur for it to work the way it should . When working properly , for every company that goes under , another takes its place that knows what they are doing .

        • T.R……..

          They may well prefer to “take it in the pants”, as you put it. I once had a relative who was a union big shot….he told me that Union members never recoup the wages lost in a strike from the higher wages they acquired in the strike. Their philosophy, according to him, was that the next strike negotiations begin at a higher wage than if they hadn’t struck in the first place. Honest….almost word for word. Quite likely the Bank’s philosophy is similiar? If they give in this time (lower the terms to make it afordable/owner not lose the property), then the borrower may do it again next time; and banks would prefer to avoid that happening! Remember too…it didn’t seem to make a lot of difference in the outrageous bonuses they paid themselves during all this, and banks don’t lose money. Like others, they just past costs along and since most banks OWN STOCK in the Federal Reserve (which isn’t Federal at all), the Bernankes of the world can just issue them credit at Zero (or near zero) cost and they lend it out at interests ranging over 20% (credit cards). And we haven’t even touched on the exhorbitant fees they extort for every conceivable excuse for a reason.

      • robert in mid michigan says:

        this is my opinion and i cant show facts on this but i believe that while we look to the banks as the cause of the problem, i believe this is a government plan atleast soem in governmet (fed reserve) you go to the bank get your loan to buy a house, the bank no longer has the money to make the loan to the next customer so they take thier closing fee pocket that and sell the loan to freddy or fannie having pocketed thier cut. most still collect your payments and probably make a few bucks from that but your morgage is owned by the government. but why would the government want your home if you pay great they make a few bucks on your loan but read your morgage at anytime they can call in the loan so you are a slave to the government one. two if you lose your home odds are you will spend yourself broke trying to keep it, add into that most of us no longer have the incomes we used to have so when we lose the house we are forced into government help or we demand the government does something to fix it and they grab a few more rites from us in the process. eventually the government owns all the houses or atleast most and the people demand that the government does one of two things either distribute it fairly or take it from those who still have it. welcome to communism hope you enjoyed the ride.

        the one thing i dont get is in a communist government you must support the government so that it can support you, if you do not they will watch you starve to death and or spead up the dying process. all the spokesman say it will be a utopia you can become an artist, write a book live the life of riley but they never mention that if you fail to support the system you do not get to use the system. lazy people will be rounded up and put into labor camps, allowed to starve to death or they decide to work or they helped into the next life. those living off the system should be the most afraid of this system but they just keep eating it up and putting thier hand out for more.

      • Hunker-Down says:

        Freddie or Fanny guaranteed most of the loans. I think that whomever has the loan, after it’s bundled and sold & sold, collects from Fre-Fan after a foreclosure is recorded against the title. Banks that hold loans, called portfolio loans, make more money by foreclosing and collecting from Fre-Fan than staring at a non-payer owner. They don’t care what the value of the home is or what they may do to its’ value as long as they can collect the maximum dollars on the loan, regardless of the source.

  30. I don’t see a certain period, just odds for certain periods.
    10% Six Months or Less
    10% Six months to One Year
    20% One To Two Years
    10% Two to Three Years
    10% Three to Five Years
    39% No sudden collapse, just gradual decline
    1% No collapse or decline

    Odds that politicians will do things that make collapse arrive sooner … 98%.
    Odds that politicians will do the wrong thing when collapse happens … 98%.

    • With a +/- 2% error rate

    • Yours is a realistic approach. Shades of gray.

    • David…..

      39%………just gradual decline.

      We’ve been in “decline”, with a few exceptions, since the early sixties. Even “gradual declines” finally END. I thought the question here was WHEN and, saying way down some gradual road is “wishful thinking”!!!!!!!

      • Do you mean end in collapse or end in a recovery? The fault is mine for missing your point. A reasonable person could argue an economic decline started with the creation of the Federal Reserve (a government chartered, private banking cartel.)

  31. I voted one to two years. The price of food has gone through the roof. Inflation on essentials like food and clothing has increased substantially. The government is broke. Congress is holding the executive branch hostage. Congress is politicizing funding for FEMA–Republicans are refusing to increase the budget for FEMA to help Americans displaced by Irene. They are arguing (for better or worse) that the funding needs to come from somewhere else–if you think helping our fellow Americans is important, then take the money from some other program (like health care or ethonol subsidies).

    I fully expect radial cuts in welfare. Once these “entitlement folks” realize their checks have stopped, they will riot in the streets. Since riots tend to disrupt commerce, if the riots last for any significant amount of time, our economy will further tank.

    I think an interesting question (harkening back to Ron’s excellent article), concerns how the federal, state and local governments will deal with the rioters. How widespread will the riots be? How violent will the rioters be? To what extent will the rioters disrupt commerce? Will the government call in the National Guard? Will lethal force be a necessary response to the violence?

    I don’t know about the rest of you, but I think kicking druggies off the welfare doles is a great idea. A practical result is that the crack whores and the rest of the druggie world are moving out of Florida. I favor mandatory drug tests for anyone who uses state funds–college students, college professors, anyone with a driver’s license. Let’s just boot the druggies out of our fine state! Let’s drop the deadweight.

    • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

      Boot them out of your state and into where? They will just pollute another area/state, so nothing has really changed. You espouse the NIMBY approach, which doesn’t solve the problem but merely makes it another person’s problem.

      • Lint,

        I can see no other solution. If folks up north want a welfare state, then they can have all the welfare people. If folks in Florida no longer wish to support others’ drug habits and laziness, and we cut welfare for anyone who tests positive for illegal drugs, they will have no choice but to move. (They can’t get a job because they lack marketable skills.)

        A couple of years back I would have advocated education and military service–these being the two most significant means of social mobility in American life. But the welfare folks don’t want to go to class and they certainly don’t want to serve in (what they call) the “white man’s army” (despite the fact that the U.S. military has been the most accessible means of gaining marketable skills for members of all races).

        I say good riddance. If you have a better solution, I am all ears.

        • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

          Ship them to Mexico. A crappy life should be spent in a crappy country.

          • Lint,

            We can’t even ship the Mexicans in this country illegally back to Mexico. So it’s doubtful that we could ship out the lazy either–though I wish we could. Actually, here’s the most cost effective strategy: Give the lazy, genetically-disposed druggies $1,000 (or the equivalent in crack). In return, all they have to do is agree to be sterilized.

            • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

              You’re a lot more generous than I am. I’d not waste money or time on sterilization. Give them rat poison and call it heroine or crack or cocaine.

            • Gayle – A few years ago a district in northern Indiana had a group that was offering $200 to addict women to get sterilized. Many wanted the deal. I believe it was the ACLU that stepped in on behalf of the addicts and claimed that they had the right to be addicts and reproduce as they pleased. This was a private group with private funds. I definitely would have donated to the cause.

    • Sorry I got to ask, what flavor was the Koolade? The drain is those on guberment payroll whose jobs depend on prohibition. You won’t belive this but ‘druggies’ support the largest cash crop in the nation. The lost drug war is pointless class/racial warfare. In order to reach your utopia do you plan on repealing the 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments or just ignoring them? Drugs and addiction are a medical issuse, making it a legal one IS THE PROBLEM. Did the booze feasco of the 20’s and 30’s teach us nothing? Thanks to RICO the money going to the guberment is far too much for them to end their free ride that is the drug war. Or for you to ever hear the truth about the true numbers on the drug war. Numbers that add up to ending the sensless Drug War. That would save billions, not the paltry millions saved on ignoring the rights of a few addicts.

      • So now we have a right to be a drug addict?
        “‘druggies’ support the largest cash crop in the nation”. ROFLMAO. They are not supporting anything if they are not paying for it with thier own “legally earned” money.
        If they are using welfare (tax payer money) of cash made by criminal activity (We pay higher insurance rates) then I have to demand that they at least say thank you and remember my birthday.

        • richard muszynski says:

          greetings. can you tell me the constitutional amendment that was made that gave the government the right to decide what drugs or medications we use? to make Alcohol illegal required the Volkstead act to be passed and added to the constitution. what amendment was passed and added to the constitution to make drugs illegal? bet you can’t find one because there never was such a amendment added. just as prohibition caused massive alcoholism the making illegal drugs brought on the massive drug addictions we have now. and we are the nation of highest drug production in the world. we have a puppet running columbia and supplying our Cocain, we have troops in Yugoslavia protecting the rights of the illegal Albanians in Kosovo to process the opium from Afghanistan into heroine to be sold here. 98% of the Heroine on our streets in Afghan. and we control Afghanistan and its opium production. no one in government will ever repeal the war on drugs because it was never a legally declared war to start with and is so profitable. our CIA couldn’t exist without it for their money.

          • While you are right about there not being a Constitutional Ammendment making drugs legal or illegal you are also very wrong on claiming “prohibition caused massive alcoholism the making illegal drugs brought on the massive drug addictions we have now”.
            It was in fact the lack of laws (call them consumer protection if you like) that allowed snake oil salesmen to hook a million Americans on drugs after the not so Civil War.
            Drugs and alcohol are inanimate objects just like Guns, pencils and forks.
            Forks dont cause obesity, pencils dont cause misspelled words, guns dont kill people, Drugs and alcohol do not create addictions. In all the above we need to add Stupid People. Alas, there is no shortage of stupid people.

            • richard muszynski says:

              anytime something is made illegal it always becomes attractive. as soon as prohibition was repealed the risk went out of the addiction and alcohol consumption dropped down. and opium was started England and America forcing the Chinese into accepting Opium from India in payment for Chinese items like tea or dinner wear that we call China. which then was carried home to England and America as well. and the first addicts here of opium were sailors and troops that were wounded in battle in the civil war, who were addicted and then released back to civilian life and continued the addiction. as for consumer protection. do you watch television? have you noted the number of class suits being advertised on drugs that were okayed by the regulatory agencies. many of which caused death. and if you check i understand that more people in America die of their prescription drugs then of illegal drug use. and you list could include guns don’t kill people, governments do.

            • Ron…..
              I’m sure richard will trip all over himself over your logic. Quit being logical 😉

      • I don’t buy into the claim that addiction is a “medical issue” or, more accurately, that having a genetic disposition toward addiction (or an addictive personality) absolves one of the responsibility to be a productive, law-abiding citizen. In other words, having an addictive personality does not excuse drug addiction.

        The problem is that folks who use drugs want to bring their drug infested bodies into the public domain. The problem is that drug addicts commit crime–by some statistics, 90 percent of all violent crime was committed by an individual under the influence of mind altering substances. People want to talk about the “right to self-medicate” but they don’t want to talk about their responsibilities. They want to talk about the rights of drug addicts, but not the rights of their victims (the children forced to grow up in drug infested homes, the victims of violent crime, and so on).

        I think We the People need to stand up for our right not to enable their addiction.

        Also, I want to note that the problem is not “a few addicts.” We live in a society were good hard-working folks are overrun by drug-crazed addicts. It kind of sucks to wake up every morning and have to clean up your yard before you can let your kids out to walk to the bus stop–dirty needles, used condoms. This is what drug addiction has done to our society.

        So if we need to use tax dollars to clean up the streets, it’s a good investment. Here in Florida, we arrest them and put them on the chain gang. (They use electronic chains now a days.) Every day I see prisoners picking up trash, cleaning out storm drains, doing maintenance, yard work on public property. We are not quite as adept as that sheriff in Arizona, but I think Florida is off to a good start here.

        I fail to see how any of this infringes on the 4th, 5th or 14th Amendments. There is no illegal search. No one is forcing the crack whores to apply for welfare. But if they are going to take taxpayer money, then we have a right to know they aren’t pissing it away on illegal drugs.

        Now if you want to turn this into a class/race issue, there’s not much I can say. After all, I think college professors and college students should be required to take a drug test, along with all other state and local employees. The same argument applies, if you are going to take taxpayer money, we have a right to know that you are not pissing it away. I fully support drug testing in employment and most Fortune 500 corporations do require drug tests as a condition of employment. Why? Because drug use costs corporate America a lot of money–decreased productivity, increased six time, increased health care costs.

        • Gayle…..

          Amen Sister!!! GAYLE FOR PREZ!!!!

        • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

          Well hell’s bells, Gayle, now you sound like a rational person. So how in the heck did you ever vote for Obama? He has an addiction, never been drug tested, and he is prez. Let’s start by drug testing him. I bet he fails.

        • the sherrif is Joe Arpayo , once a prisoner complained about being hot and uncomfortable in the tent city , his response was to the affect , that it was over 120 in iraq and our troops live in tents dressed in full battle gear and they didnt commit any crimes , dont like it ? dont come back !

          • Joe for Prez.

          • richard muszynski says:

            greetings. were you in the service? if so you know that it is against the law to commit war crimes or to order them to be committed. it is the duty of every soldier or Marine to not obey illegal orders. and any order to kill civilians is against our military code and the international agreements we have signed onto such as the geneva convention, the Hague and the human rights accords. so can no longer claim our troops did not commit any crimes. civilians are being terminated daily in our imperial war for money. and every civilian murdered, especially women and children, is a crime. one that is very rarely punished. note Bush is still walking about and breathing. so is Cheney who has confessed on the air and in his book to committing war crimes.

    • Hunker-Down says:

      Hou about testing those who recieve federal funds;CONGRESS?

      • Hunker-Down…..

        You mean they aren’t tested? Guess that explains it!

      • Hunker-Down,

        I agree with drug testing for anyone who uses tax paper money. I think if we want to drug test welfare applicants we should be prepared to drug test politicians. (And I suspect a good many of them would fail. Washington D.C. is loaded with cocaine. There are 8 year-old kids slinging rock on the national lawn.)

      • richard muszynski says:

        drugs are a minor problem. how about enforcing the laws we already have and demand that people who lead us are actually American citizens? Obama has not yet turned over a actual birth certificate to prove his rights to be a American citizen. of course he could never be a Natural born citizen since his father was not married to his mother and the birth certificate he offered said he was born in a hospital in Hawaii that was not built until years after his birth. his father stated his nationality as Kenya, which when Obama was supposed to be born did not exist, it was then East Africa and a British colony. years after Obama was born they gained their independence and named their nation Kenya after their biggest mountain. no doctor signed the offered birth certificate nor does the number on the certificate fit in the time period when it was supposed to have been registered. so enforce the actual laws we have before we go after the illegal political drug laws.

        • Dude, Lets just light up another doobie and put on some Doors.

        • The fence turtle is the smartest of all turtles. Because he is purched up ontop of that fence post, he can see further then all the other turtles and to turtles that is seen as intellegence.

          • richard muszynski says:

            and the cockroach is considered the best example of a life form that will survive anything. this proves something? and sorry to disappoint you but i do not use any but prescription drugs, never have. when i was younger i saw what drugs did to those who used them. so i never did. in Vietnam having people in your squad was a invitation to getting hit on patrol.

    • Gayle, While welfare recipients can be lopped into a few distasteful categories like “druggies” or “unmarried females cranking out babies”, there are many more welfare-takers that are ignored. The SNAP program has grown into a behemoth bailout and the working class is now paying for everyone else to eat as well as their own families. Then there is FEMA, like you mention. FEMA is little more than another welfare program. Individual assistance is a way-of-life for those in disaster-prone areas. State assistance is a bailout program for States that do not plan adequately. What happened to personal responsibility? What happened to professionals in “charge” of their local or State emergency management? Why is everyone given a free ride, compliments of the U.S. taxpayer?

      So Irene brought flooding into areas where there are rivers, creeks, and water nearby. Well, DUH… around water, expect to get wet. But through the Federal Government, if you get wet, you get paid for your trouble. BTW, did you know that the NFIP (National Flood Insurance Program) runs through FEMA and is the ONLY means by which people can insure their property against flood damage? In other words, it’s a monopoly. There is no competition, no insurance business is offering flood insurance. Isn’t this the perfect example of why Obamacare will do the same with respect to health insurance? None of the analysts or talking-heads have brought this forward to my knowledge, but there it is.

      So the long and short of it is, the U.S. is overloaded with welfare programs. The Feds are buying people and have a multitude of excuses to throw money at people who are willing to take it. Why are taxpayers allowing it? Why are taxpayers paying others for their own poor choices, their lack of insurance coverage, or bad planning?

      • Lynn,

        I am all for reducing and in some cases eliminating welfare programs. But FEMA is not a welfare program. I agree FEMA needs better management and tighter regulations. But there are disasters that cannot be handled at the local and state level. And no one in this country is immune from disasters. I think as long as we are all putting into the pot, we all have a right to draw out when necessary.

        Drug testing welfare applicants is a good start. But it will not cure lazy. Perhaps the lazy just need to die off so that those who are willing to work can start the rebuilding process.

        • Gayle…..
          “Perhaps the lazy just need to die off………..”

          I think it’s called “natural selection”. They don’t call it “natural” for nothing.

          Don’t mess with “natural” or Darwin!

          • richard muszynski says:

            did you know where Adolf Hitler got his ideas of racial superiority from? the U.S.A. and their eugenics society in i believe long island area. they wanted, as you do, to terminate anyone who was not up to their standards of perfection. we called it genocide and hung many of them for it. but it seems that it is still alive and well right here at home in America where it came from in the first place.

            • richard muszynski…..
              I don’t have the time nor inclination to explain to you, the difference between genocide and natural selection except to say natural selection doesn’t seem to have been kind to you.

            • richard muszynski says:

              greetings. it is comforting to know that there are still those out there that think they are God and capable of judging who should like and who should die. the great Super Race that Eugenics was an advocate of. and too bad you don’t have the time or inclination to correct me on the basis of Nazi genocide and how it was not connected to or brought about by our views on genocide to terminate ill people, those without money or connections and the people who were mentally ill. that would have made me understand how the Super Race didn’t do anything wrong. and you are right. it did not treat me well. many of my relatives back in the old country were ‘terminated’ under the genocide. including a Polish officer executed by the Russians at Kathwin. and my sur name is listed in the black book of the SS that listed many of the victims of that racial selection.

            • richard muszynski…..
              Love your “ramblings” richard and…if you’re Polish – you should know…it’s Katyn Forrest not Kathwin. So sorry America caused all your problems; I’m surprised you’re still here, or are you?

        • Southern Arizona is pretty immune to disasters , other that the fires up north , not much happens round here .

          • richard muszynski says:

            hawkeye. thank you for correcting my spelling on Katyn and it is forest not forrest. if you are pole you would know that. where in the world did you get the idea i said America was the cause of all my problems. Nazi Germany was never a part of America nor were the Russian troops that executed the Polish Officers in the forest to Katyn. which also happens to be a holy day at the Catholic churches in Hamtramck Michigan where i came from. and yes Hamtramck is spelled that way. I’m still here, are you? And i will probably be here long after you let slip where you really are. not that it matters of course. As for ramblings. mine are on facts. yours are on what? escapes me at the moment.

            • richard muszynski…..
              If you’r wondering why I was offended….re-read your posts. But I’m through with this jibberish: The subject is (should be) “What Did You Do To Prep This Week”. I’ll thank you for Vietnam and…end this!

            • richard muszynski says:

              Hawkeye. I wasn’t wondering why you should be offended. and on the word you’r it is ”your “wondering not you are. glad you are through with this jibberish. the subject you so violently object to my commenting on is in the “How far are we from a total collapse of our economy.” not “what did i do this week end.” can you not even get that little bit right? complaining about wrong post in wrong subject. glad you are through with this jibberish. i am as well. no sense wasting my time with someone who doesn’t even know what discussion topic he is offended by.

    • robert in mid michigan says:

      drug testing for state benafits ok, i have a problem with the rest however and i do not agree with drug use but i refuse to allow the government even more access to my rites.

      • robert in mid michigan says:

        because wha else are they checking for, my diet, how much i drink what have you. granted if you are busted while driving well you can blame yourself but to allow them to look into my medical condition for anyreason is well beyond their pervue.

  32. Obummer is worse in 3 years than Bush was in 8 . We need to go away when it comes to global interference , globalization is a failed experiment that needs to go away as far as our participation in it . We also need to get out of NATO , and close every military base we have on foreign soil . We are under no obligation or have the right to continue to be the world policeman when we cant even fix our own house , much less afford it in money or casualties for no gain . I would hate to see all the suffering that a total collapse would bring to people but perhaps its what is needed to set things correct . The housing market collapse was a natural correction . Sorry for all the people who lost value on their home , but things now cost what they should cost . Punitive import tariffs and more isolationist policies to get our workers working again . Do we really need , 20 crappy made trendy shirts in the closet , or would it be better to have 5 good , very high quality shirts instead ? People breed like rats , but there is only a finite level of resources to support them , changing our disposable mentality is a must . There are 3 cars to every man woman and child in this country , how many more do we really need ? I think a total collapse would actually benefit the people in the fact that it may wake them up , perhaps even enough to take up arms and make a Jeffersonian correction of the government . Who knows ? what I do know is that we need to have as little to do with the rest of the world as possible and be self reliant and self sustaining . I would be in favor of WW2 style gas rationing once the infrastructure is in place to ( passenger rail ) replace the car as a primary , then tell the rag heads we dont need them anymore , and the Chinese they need to import as much as they are exporting or they wont get a dime back on any loan they ever made to us . The Europeans ? we dont need them . just a rant from Archie Bunkers arm chair 😉
    Stars & Bars !!!!

    • Didn’t we try all that after the Great War to end all Wars? That lead to numbering World Wars. The world we live in is far too complex to hope sticking our heads in the sand will make all the Darkness go away.

      • Thinking more fortress America . Trade only IF its in our best interest and on our terms . Military involvement only on a case by case basis , no police actions , no peace keeping , no blanket alliances , no world policeman , no reason the EU cant send the troops and WE send the supplies ( only if they pay for it ) . Take care of our own and only allow in only those willing to completely assimilate . Australia doesn’t just open its doors to anybody with a sob story , either should we .

        • Australia is an Island. Lucky them! We have a border with Mexico.

          • Yes , the cancer of the Americas , but its not like we CANT get control of that border , its that we WONT get control of it . If the Russians can have pretty complete border security with one fifth of the worlds land mass , we can certainly get control of one of ours .

          • richard muszynski says:

            I thought Australia was a continent. we also have a border with Canada don’t we?

            • richard muszynski….
              Australia is an Island…surrounded by water! Surely you get the point without a technically perfect geographic description?

            • richard muszynski…..
              And Canada? Yes, you are very observant, we do have a border With Canada. However we were talking about issues with controling THE border. I haven’t heard anything about 12 million Canadian illegals having crossed that border. If you have, I’d be interested in hearing about it!

    • So what is stopping you?

    • T.R…..

      I agree with most of what you say until the “punitive import tax” part. The union movement chased those jobs off shore! I can’t think of even one good reason that the rest of us should pay higher prices (for import taxes) just because union goons can’t charge us higher prices for their unreasonable behavior, on the jobs they CAUSED TO BE LOST!

      • I agree about the unions , but as we all know unions can be broken . All one has to do in move operations to a right to work state and thats that . It is the obligation to protect the American economy from foreign advantage . Economics is a form of warfare .

        • T.R……

          The trouble with moving to a right to work state, under O’Bama’s boys, is “they don’t want to allow it”. Case in point – the present situation with Boeing wanting to build a second production facility for it’s new 787. Rather than a second site in Washington state (a heavily unionized state) they wanted that second facility in S. Carolina. The issue is being fought “tooth and nail” by O’Bama’s Department of Labor and is not, so far as I know, resolved.

  33. mountain lady says:

    Dark Knight, you sound like a shill for the democratic party. I hope they pay you well, and that you are putting that money into preps.

    I will post what I think later, still having my first cup of coffee, and am still a bit fuzzy.

  34. The Gnasher says:

    Obama will do exactly the same as all the other Presidents, Prime Ministers and Premieres do,and have done for the past couple of centuries, he will follow the instructions of the,”Looters in Suits”.
    You must never lose sight of the fact, that none of the population worldwide, have a representative form of Government, we all have Governments, that represent only the very powerful and the very wealthy. If you really look you can see their plans for us,the serfs and slaves, coming together

  35. frankly i am beginning to think we will have a revolt before the economy gets us. folks are mad, getting madder. i used to be the lone voice in the wood around here, but i’m finding myself in the majority these days. wait til the defense cuts hit, the “downsized vets get back from iraq/’stan w/ no hope of a job.

    • You have to wonder about that. Everyone is getting madder and now you have lots of Dems saying things that are totally irresponsible and without basis. As in Maxine Waters shooting her mouth off about Tea Partiers, Nancy Pelosi’s incredibly stupid remarks about Republicans wanting “immortality”, that stupid Congressman that is making this all a race issue with his comments about the Tea Party wanting to hang black people in trees. Well I would like to hang that jerk by his toes and the take a tree branch and give him a spanking for being so damned stupid. It feels like they are trying to push for a revolution. So folks don’t let anger rule here, but persist in the truth!

      • Tom the Tinker says:

        Worrisome: Your comment sparks a memory of other comments such as “.. never let a good crisis go to waste..” What sort of ‘mind’ could plan… all this? None I think. I believe all our screw ups are coming home to roost like a flock of …. well you pick the bird.

      • Problem is , we are not told the truth and have few ways of getting it , the media is in somebody’s pocket and the PC liberals have and do censor our information and history . Anger IS A TOOL , when your angry , things get done , when your fearful , you give them the power over you . Get mad , get very very mad and strike out at the cause of the anger . Civil war is preferable to slavery or serfdom .

        Stars & Bars !

        • The trick is to boil the frog slowly.

        • T.R. We are to Just strike out with blind rage? Do you favor The French model of Revolution or Pol Pot? Russian? Mao?

          Either way, How Lovely.

          • Or how about OUR revolution ? that also is a good model . The people got angry and did something . This governmental ” give us your civil liberties so we can protect you ” is crap . Fear mongering is what those in power like . If we are afraid of the bogie man , we will nod our head and do all that is asked of us so big brother can make it go away . And yes I still stand on civil war is preferable to serfdom or slavery . Jefferson predicted that it may come to that from time to time to maintain Liberty . You know exactly what I meant and we both know it . How did we win WW2 as a people ? we got angry .

            • Yes I do know exactly what you are talking about. I can not say that I really disagree. However, I am not yet at the point where I am willing to throw out the soap box and the ballot box and move to the ammo box.

            • Your entitled to your opinion as much as anybody here , I would prefer the ballot box also but nothing changes , My family comes from a long line of rebs , I would also rather see session , but I dont think that will happen unless Texas gets the ball rolling . Soooooo in my opinion , and conviction , we as a people will need to go for the ammo box . If we dont , nothing will change at this point and in fact get worse to the point of living under a Fascist dictatorship or Soviet style Communism , either is intolerable , and the constitution sitting behind the glass will become a real museum piece with no actual meaning . As a matter of history , even Nazi germany maintained ” elections ” but Hitler always won .

            • robert in mid michigan says:

              you are under the impression that only those doing the fighting died in the american revalution. sorry lots of people died who wanted nothing more than to survive. is revalution possible sure is it to be desired never. as a country we have been very fortunate not to have wars fought on our soil and no one alive can remember what it was like to have a battle fought just a few miles from their homes. it makes many look at war with it being possible to actually win a war. go to korea, europe the middle east these people know what war is and how civilians are the casualties that never get reported.

              granted at some point it may become neccasary to revolt but we are talking about revolting against a system where a sizeable part of the population want, so when we win make it our system will we expect those people to sit down shut up and like our system or do they to have a rite to revolt.

              the great thing about america is having the rite to disagree with one another and still live with one another. are things broken in this country yes and they need to be fixed but my idea of fixed and yours are probably very differant. how do we as a people make everyone happy?

            • Robert ,
              You cant make everybody happy , majority rule was the way we have always been , now its minority and special interest rule . The torries ( british loyalists ) either stayed and made the best of it , went back to England or migrated to Canada ( still in British possession ) . The Confederate constitution was almost identical to the US constitution . They just wanted out . I dont see any revolutionary government being that much different than the US Constitution . Matter of fact , I see that being one reason for a revolt . The watering down and sub legislating of it to nullify it as being the cause . War is war , collateral damage is a reality , thing is , there comes a time when its needed for freedom , liberty or survival . We have had 3 wars on our own soil , the revolution , 1812 , and the civil war .

            • Also , if you look at it , the nation generally came out of each one better off than before it started . I personally think the wrong side won the civil war but thats just me .

    • the people that are mad are mostly fat middle aged white people who couldn’t sustain a revolt because they don’t have enough insulin after eating mcdonald’s for so many years.

      frankly, i suspect that fits a vast majority of commenters here to a T.

      • Sam I seriously hope you never find yourself on an opposing battlefield from this group.

        • oooooh, i must be talking to a real warrior here!!!

          you and others are keyboard bada$$e$. you act like you and the other arthritis stricken has-beens are going to be out doing full military maneuvers!!! HA!

          congratulations on having a black rifle and magazine pouch vest. too bad they don’t make them in XXXXL for most of the other members of your unit.

      • Got a problem with White people ?

        • i’m a white american.

          my people get fatter and stupider every year. it’s a pathetic state of affairs, frankly, that brings me great embarrassment. toothless rednecks parading around acting like petulant children. all you have to do is consult health and education statistics to know that it’s impossible for a fat and stupid electorate to do anything of consequence in the face of a changing world.

          our ancestors are rolling in their graves in sadness at what white americans have done with their patrimony. other races ought not experience the shame that white people deserve to feel. they haven’t been in power and haven’t been running the show only to drop the ball into a box of mcdonald’s fries.

          • Sam…..

            There must be some place you’d be happier….Africa maybe?

          • templar knight says:

            And by the way, statistics show blacks and hispanics are more likely to be overweight than whites, and are more likely to use insulin. You’re the one who is the stupid white person here.

          • Sam ,
            sorry to burst your bubble but I dont fit that description . Im in my 40’s , 6 feet tall , I weigh 185 lbs. , have a 33 inch waist , broad shoulders 42/44 , work out every day , have a job that is creative but physical , last time I had a physical (which was three months ago ) my blood pressure and cholesterol were that of a twenty year old . I’m educated , have a wonderful woman that I will protect from harm , any way necessary , but your correct on one thing , the electorate cant fix the problem , im for revolution . Why ? because its time for it again . I am white also and proud of it . The anger towards Obummer is not about race , its about bad policies in the middle of a crisis . The anger is toward the government as a whole , its ineptitude and corruption .

            • I would like to also add , yes , by your standards I am a redneck , I did grow up on a ranch , I am proud of my heritage , and proud of my mothers 27th bar in the UDC , but I do have a full head of hair and I do have all my teeth lol . Its more how you were raised and where than what you describe , we could go on and on about this but its pointless .

          • Ok, ok… I’m going to chime in as a non-white person, McDonald’s lovin’ person. lol

            I’m 5′, 115 pounds, Asian, and yes… I actually eat McDonald’s about once a week. (Love those QPs with cheese! lol) I am also an angry redneck, so maybe I do fit your stereotype, Sam.

            But just ’cause I’m an Asian woman who eats greasy fast food doesn’t mean I can’t pop a cap in the tuckus of anyone who knocks on my door after TSHTF.

          • Apparently logic and reason are unknown to you. I find that when posters riddle their comments with insults they have nothing to contribute to a logical, constructive and meaningful debate.
            So why are you here?

        • Yeah SAM the racist, I’m white, middle aged and a little overweight. But, I’ll bet I can shoot your eye out at 300 yds.

      • Owwwwwww!!!!! Are you my stalker?

      • Sam,

        Why are you reading this blog if you think we are a bunch of fat, middle-aged whities with our thumbs up our butts? Seems to me that from your perspective, you would be wasting your own time.

        –Signed (NOT fat, NOT middle-aged)

      • templar knight says:

        Hmm…let me see how I fit your profile.

        48 years old
        McDonalds-we don’t have one where I live
        mad-damn right

        Any other observations you would like to make, sonny?

      • ROTFL, Sam. I may be middle aged and Caucasian but I am NOT fat! McDonald’s food is poison.
        The people who are “mad” are the hard working ones who pay their fair share of taxes and always have. Perhaps they’re just getting tired of the whiners who expect their college education to be paid for by others, their mortgages to be paid for by others, the endless bail outs, also paid for by others and the inept leadership at the state and national levels.
        The people who are “mad” have paid their bills, realize the consequences of their actions and have a modicum of accountability and personal responsibility.
        I could go on but why bother?

      • sam, you only need to be in shape if you plan on RUNNING!! we don’t.

      • robert in mid michigan says:

        question sam do you know what is required to fight a war, do you know what it means to be hungery, to be cold, wet and not sure when the next meal is coming, are those gunshots in the distance the north koreans planning to come across the dmz or are they just target practacing?

        in short what have you ever given up, gone with out to make you an expert. i sat on the dmz for a year i know what it takes to serve and i know the kids who are all bad here dont have a chance to fight no war. when they lose thier cell phones they will quit and go home.

        i wish your generation the best of luck you for the most part have never felt pain or sacrifice. we as parents have done our job to well and now they expect that things are handed to them.

        if you have served our country i thank you but to feel all the cards are in your hand is a grave mistake i hope you can live through. i love my country i enlisted to serve this country swore an oath to serve and protect it. and i was and still am willing to die to preserve it, wether my health will allow me to sustain the war effort or not i guarentee i will take my share with me.

      • Come on folks.
        PLEASE don’t feed the trolls.
        Especially the ones who are typing epithets from their mommy’s basement.

  36. The save and work, thrift and liberty values are lost in the world’s top power.
    Only God knows how anyone else accepts dollar as a reserve currency, but that alone warranties that there won’t be a TOTAL collapse.
    BRIC nations are already trading without dollars (not much, yet). But if that intensifies inside and outside of BRIC you will see TOTAL collapse, not likely an overnight collapse (giants fall slowly) but a collapse nonetheless.

  37. I voted 3 to 5. We are in a silent depression right now. It will take a while for it to get bad enough for the government and major media to acknowlege it. However, if a mojor incident (manmade or natural) happens it could come sooner. Furthermore, if other countries continue to drop the dollar as the reserve currency, it could come a lot sooner.

    • Im still waiting for the big one to hit California and drop that plate lol . Yuma beach baby ! Good thing your in Nor Cal Lint , computer simulation shows you will be an island , your property value will skyrocket 😉

  38. No one can really predict a date. IMHO we have been in an gradual economic collapse since 2008. Food and gas prices have been steadily rising.Seniors on fixed income are not receiving cost of living raises for Social Security and other government pensions is just one clue. High unemployment continues and seems likely to increase and remembers there are millions whose unemployment insurance benefits will begin to run out. Medical care is becoming unaffordable. Racial strife and crime are on the rise. No matter where you look there are few signs of a return to prosperity. I’m not sure that there will be a “Pearl Harbor” economic event that will push us over the edge into a SHTF situation. However with the European debt crisis growing worse day by day its possible that a country like Greece could default and that could cause the “house of cards” to collapse and the fallout from that would eventually reach our shores. It is not hard to visualize a number of other scenario that could lead to disaster as well. The fact that our government has become hopelessly corrupt, inefficient and continues to kick the “economic can” down the road doesn’t leave much hope for avoidance of the end of the American dream. The only thing left to do is to work with family and friends to prepare for the worse.

    • Lonestar? What does IMHO stand for?

      • History also shows that the result of economic collapse on a global scale is warfare . If the terms of the armistice treaty ending WW1 would not have been so harsh , pushing Germany into the great depression long before the rest of the world , Adolph Hitler would have been laughed off the soap box instead of people being desperate enough to listen . This can happen anywhere . If there is a world wide collapse , be prepared also for some very serious wars .

      • Worrisome…..

        In My Humble Opinion (IMHO).

      • HeyMickey59 says:

        In My Humble Opinion…usually. Yes, Lonestar…isn’t it REE-dick-U-lous that THEY keep saying that the recession is getting better. UH—what world do THEY live in!? NOTHING has gotten better since the bottom fell out in 2008. Not for the common (wo)man anyways. No cost-of-living increases on Soc. (in)Security and VA disability, but gas, food, etc, etc. keep going up, up and AWAY!

      • In my humble opinion

    • Lonestar,

      I agree with your assessment. History will show that the economic depression started in Dec. 2007 and continued through at least the present time. And TR is right to point out that historically war is the end result of worldwide economic collapse.

  39. Dark Knight. I do hope you are being facetious here.

    I think for a while yet it will be bleeding to death from a thousand small cuts. The regulations and Presidential decrees are going to take a while to kick in through out the system and drop the burden on our shoulders. For instance, his Homeland Security Illegal alien thing he did recently. We have been holding lots of cases on deportation already, it will only be when the burden of the additional hoards that are going to come to this country as a result of it that we are going to understand the true load it incurs on our social services. Again, in California here, the Dream Act is about to go legal, just a step away from hitting Brown’s desk. So now illegal aliens will be competing with our citizens for educational support…………lovely, and it will take time for the burden to actually hit us. The FDA interfering with our rights to get supplements and herbs that are now legal………… will take time for the health effects to be felt by many. The new employee poster that employers are being required to install in their break rooms by November 14th regarding their rights to unionize…………it will take a while for all of the unintended consequences to take effect. These are but a few examples and there are many more that this group could recite in but an instant! As all of these tiny little cuts and burdens begin to grow, the ball that is rolling down hill will increase until we are moving so fast that we can’t get it stopped, let alone turn it around. It is destruction one tiny little poke and prod at a time. The 10% of electrical suppliers that will be closing down over the next year which is going to raise the price of electricity cut into our budgets due to the combined weight of the EPA and Obama. Or………..holding Boeing back from being competitive by the labor board not allowing them to build a factory in the Carolinas, the result of which will be that China will get the bids. The gun laws that they constantly poke and prod at hoping someone won’t be watching and they will get one through that finally breaks the back of the second amendment. At some point you could say this was all unintended consequences but they aren’t and haven’t been for many many years. The are intentional and destructive to our nation and to our citizens…………..and they know it.

    • Everyone did a much better job than I did of expressing thier thoughts! So many good comments! I just wrote it as I thought, next time I will take more time, but I hope you understood my thinking. Bless all of you!

      • Tom the Tinker says:

        Hey Worrisome: In.. My.. Humble.. Opinin….. your stream of thought posting is more honest than any ‘scripted’ responce could be. Thank You……………….

      • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

        Worrisome, your thoughts were very well expressed. FWIW (For What It’s Worth), I agree with everything you said (except I know next to nothing about herbs, so will bow to your expertise on that issue).

      • Worrisome,

        I followed your comments just fine. I appreciate the examples you site. There are just too many little things adding up to a really dark future.

    • That is what really worried me…so many things “going wrong” constantly…big things! The dying economy…the crumbling infrastructure…the “vanished” middle class…the wild weather…earthquakes in odd areas…never-ending multiple wars with no end in sight…and our pitiful lack of responsibility in allowing generations of our servants (the public servants…the govt) to run amok on our dime.
      I am praying “whatever” holds off at least until I can get next years crops planted…and get my dairy goats and a couple pigs – but I really don’t feel good about the chances. We seem to be at the point that any little thing could set off a major SHTF scenario. Our best bet would be for something fast and dire…and in the late fall or winter. I won’t go into why…but think about it. If it ends up being a long, slow slide, things are going to be really grim for a really long time.

  40. I voted a year or so, since the economy is gradually falling (aka: peak oil slide) and some people still have their jobs. It is failing though, and no president (R or D) will be able to save it. In fact there probably won’t even be any election – Marshall law, EMP, CME would prevent it.

    Spend Forever? The home as an investment is gone, interest rate for a saving account at a bank is gone, pay raise is gone, living like the Jones is gone, stock market growth is gone. More and more people are “have nots” – if they have not, they spend not.

    Keep growing your garden – it’s the only economy we have left…

  41. Well, as I live in a different country, it might not be fair to vote, but as our country is currently very tied to yours in terms of trade etc, I will say I agree, with many of the comments already made, I do believe that

    a) globalization is something that we will see fall to the side as more and more country’s make choices like some have done over past three years in regards to no exports, their own peaples needs come first.

    b) we are in a slow steady decline in regards to qaulity of life, and ever smaller middle class with a growing gap between the have’s and have nots.

  42. I don’t see collapse as in a quick descent into economic, social and political chaos. What is do see is slow, relentless decline in purchasing power, individual liberties and civility. However, the results will be the same. Either scenario is scary and saddens me to think that we are even discussing the demise of what was the worlds only economic powerhouse.

    • Unfortunately , we would already be a third world nation if we didnt have a bloated military and nuclear weapons . You can only slap a band aids on the gusher for so long before you have to give up and have surgery .The former Soviet Union comes to mind . We haven’t made much of anything as an ” industrial nation ” for quite some time . I see every politician that gives a speech saying we are still the greatest nation on earth as being along the same line as the Nazi government trying to convince the german people that they can still win as they see Russian tanks entering Berlin . Hard to be positive here , but I do very much hope that we are incorrect . I really dont wish more crap on anybody than they already have .

    • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

      Eagle, I share your feelings about the demise of this once-great nation. It’s a sad day that we even have to contemplate it, but we do.

      • Hunker-Down says:

        Most great nations collapse after an average of 250 years of dominance. How old is the U.S.A.?

        • We should still have a ways to go then , we were a joke until after the civil war , we were still a second rate power until after WW2 , when we got raised to super power status and with it global influence . So im hoping we still have a lot more tread on the ol tires yet 😉

  43. Try this site, it compiles news from all over that relates to job cuts, business closings and bankruptcies. A good place to refer to.

  44. This election will be the attempt. The Administration is ramping up the racial rhetoric to infuriate the blacks and hispanics. The backdoor amnesty was given to secure hispanic allegience. Together, they can overthrow the polls and organized, we will see another Philadelphia Black Panther voting poll incident but on a large svale. I believe the idea will be to cause violence at the polls using the organized blacks and hispanics against white voters in the large electoral voting districts and create an event so that the President can go on T.V. and suspend elections in the interest of public safety. We have already seen the field test with Eric Holder managing to nullify the Black Panther investigation in Philadelphia and no public outrage over the event or the corruption. Now they will go full scale and take this country at the risk of Civil War. Democrats cannot afford a Conservative victory because if the economy turns around and gets better the stress and urgency for revolution will be lost. The general population will become docile again and their efforts will be lost. Complete as much of your preps before this election as you can, you may not be afforded more time. I hope I am wrong but all reasoning suggests this is how it is going to go down. Remember what they’ve said, “never let a crisis go to waste”.

    • Greg,
      I work with mostly “hispanics”, mostly natural American citizens, and a few naturalized. They see thru this amnesty crap. They know that thier kids will have to compete against the illegals for schools and jobs. They are not amused or placated with amnesty.
      BTW: One woman I work with (a registered Civil Engineer) got her citizenship while serving in Afghanistan as a Sea Bee Reservist. Broke both legs over there in an accident. She paid her dues and I am very proud to work with her.

    • robert in mid michigan says:

      with minor variation this is how i see but i feel that obama losing may be the trigger for thier back up plan. he lost they stand up and try to be counted.

  45. I don’t think dear leader will let the sticks that are propping up the already broken,be kicked out until after his coronation in 2012.

    • riverrider says:

      bc, white’s truckstop in raphine? yes, and “Berkey’s” diner, good eats/cheap. its over the mountain from me….. dragon tail run, yep ran her a few but prefer the desert runs, so i can look at the scenery…riding thru the desert on a horse with two names:)

      • Hello there “w”. Whites had a few hundred guns on display inside. Rare guns expensive guns old guns. All behind glass with alarms. Marinated flank steak was my fav. Wife and I stopped there twice a week on our Odessa Tx to north Branford ct. Run. Jobs going great by the way. Good to hear from you.

  46. There seems to be a lot of talk here and elsewhere on the web that assumes the government is somehow ruining the economy. I think the government can make things a bit worse or a bit better, but overall, our economic problems have a lot more to do with basic resources vs. ever expanding world population. We fooled ourselves by creating growth for the past 30 years by borrowing rather than actually growing. At some point the party is over and we have to realize that energy, food, raw materials are getting more scarce and either the population decreases or our standard of living decreases. Don’t get me wrong, Ron Paul has lots of integrity and I agree with a lot of what he says, but he’s not going to find some secret stash of oil, quality soil, rare earth minerals, etc. to magically fix things. At some point it is a zero sum game.

    • Jeff, one simple word defines it all: GREED.

    • Hi Jeff-
      You said in a few sentences what would have taken me a whole longer. I agree completely… and am pretty sure we are at a tipping point from which there is no return economically, no matter what policies are pursued. There may be ways to slow the fall… but it is going to hurt, bad, no matter what is done before that happens. I voted for 3-5 years… not because I really have any idea when it will happen, but rather as a form of wishful thinking. 3-5 years is about how long it will take me to get my family where I hope to be when/if this happens.
      God help us all if it comes sooner. Wits and knowledge will only go so far when TSHTF, and with three kids whose well-being I have to put first… I’m desperately hoping we have that much time.

    • templar knight says:

      I have to disagree with you here, Jeff. The government can and is ruining the economy. For instance, Solyndra, a solar energy startup touted by Obama over the past 2 years, declared bankruptcy and layed off 1,100 people yesterday. That would be bad enough, but we come to find out that the federal government has loaned these people $535,000,000.00, and that this money is now gone. Down a rathole. Do you not see how this government interference has harmed the economy?

      On a happier note, we in the US are blessed with the largest reserve of fossil fuels in THE WORLD. More than Saudi Arabia, Russia, Canada, China. Trillions of dollars of fossil fuels. And there are tremendous reserves of rare earths and other minerals locked up in federal lands. We have plenty of good farmland, but we need to use our grain for food, not fuel. Ron Paul doesn’t have to find anything.

      Our problems are not unsolvable. But it will take political will that has not been seen in Washington for some years. A cadre of lawyers, leftists, radical environmentalists, and one-worlders will have to be cast aside, and it won’t be easy, or even likely. That’s why I am pessimistic about our chances.

  47. mountain lady says:

    I voted for now to 6 mo. I agree with Bctruck that TDL will try to keep it propped up past the 2012 election, but doubt that he can. There are so many indicators worldwide that point to a collapse that I find it hard to believe that they can kick the can down the road for another year. Bof A is losing value again today. Eurozone is in deep trouble. Then there is the ME, and anything could go wrong there. That is on top of the fact that this country is deep in debt, with no hope of getting out of that hole. I do wish for all of us to be as prepared as possible, ASAP. Planning to do things next year may not be a good option. I do not have everything I would like to have, but I started with the basics and will add to it as long as I can. We are the Wolf Pack, and we will survive.

  48. In truth, it is imposible to really come up with a time frame. What happens if more than one shoe falls? As I understand it, government is scratching its backside now trying to figure out how to fund the damage caused by Irene. Also…it appears that there will be a worldwide shortage of grains due to the past weather. What happens if there is another Katrina and at the same time the New Madrid Fault decides it is time to do its thing? All that….plus the economic disaster looming…sheesh! I read today that the scientists have found a way to create sausage from stem cells. Remember the movie Soilent Green? All kidding aside…..I really believe we are past, way past any hope of rectifying the problem. All we can do now really is bend over and grab out ankles. Sad.

    • Curt S, isn’t it interesting that the Government quickly points to deficits when it involves the plight of people from disaster, sickness, or children needing ___ (fill in the blank since kids are great for getting sympathy). This is always how they solicit for tax increases: cutting teachers, fire, and police.

      When was the last time the Government ever moaned about not having the funding for payouts to Puerto Rico’s Social Security, or military in Guam, Congressional pay, or turtle tunnels. lol

  49. Nuttbush54 says:

    I think that we will be in a steady decline due to inflation increasing, the job markets decreasing and our ignoramus’ governments attempt to throw darts at the situation. It is like they sling something up against the wall and hope it will stick. We will be in the SHTF already before the masses and the media will admit it. The media is too up TDL’s butt to admit the problem and they are so liberal, they won’t do anything but try to cover for him until it is too late. I expect a full blown attempt by the left to use race and white guilt as an issue in this election, and if they lose, I wouldn’t put it past them to incite riots. That will accelerate the timeline of the collapse. I will work as much as I can in the meantime to prepare. We do what we do because we can’t trust our government to be there to help in the end. Watch the news right now for the people in the path of Irene who are sitting around waiting to be rescued. This week I saw a news report on a local channel about a near riot at the welfare office when a glitch of some kind cut off the food stamps for recipients. Some people were hysterical and beating on the protective glass wall of the worker’s counter. Outside they were loudly complaining to the news media that they just couldn’t tell their children there was no food. These were all welfare mothers with a whole “passle” of kids, didn’t see one down-and-out-just-lost-their-job person in the bunch. When these people don’t get their food stamps and their check in trade for their votes next year, we are in it then for sure.

  50. I agree with many of you. Great comments! We will be lucky to have another year to prepare. One good hurricane and the price of oil will skyrocket. One (true or false) terror attack and we are toast. Perhaps we will have a bit mor time if it is a slow decline as it has been in the past several years. As soon as the welfare checks stop we are heading for the hills! We are stocking up on food storage to prepare for what is surely to come. Check out The food is fantastic and the prices low (… for now). I’ve got car insurance, and home insurance…. food insurance is the logical next step. Even if things are getting better, which I doubt, we can always eat the food! Just got an email they have a special sale for Labor Day weekend. We will put in another order tonight.

  51. I think 1-2 years, based on how long it will take to get the next pres. election over with, and how long after that the “new” fee structure for the Feds (read taxes) will take to break the average Americans back. Read up on the decline and fall of the Roman empire. We are following an old playbook for failure. I lost my job of 17 years due to the debt crisis. I now sit at home, looking for jobs in my finitely specialized job field, on Obama’s unemployment check. The replicans are saying “cut unemplyment benefits” as I sit here. I truly believe that putting me on the governments teat is the way the libs hope to make me vote for them. It’s all part of the plan. The biggest problem for them is that I’ve prepped extensively, have my house paid off, and am using the unemployment checks to buy more ammo and silver…Ha!

    • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

      Your unemployment checks are coming out of my pension checks. Hope you enjoy that silver and ammo at my expense. Maybe I can return the favor some day.

    • “The replicans are saying “cut unemplyment benefits”
      Really? Can you name them? Can you point to a video showing one actually saying that? I suspect what you are hearing are demorats talking about what they want you to think the repubs are saying. Don’t fall for that crap.

  52. I don’t know when the economy will crash or if it will but I do know this; it took far more years than this present administration to put us in the debt we are. Regardless where you stand politically, one side always blames the other. And if you think there is going to be some “magical” solution just because another Republican gets in office next term, you are delusional. I don’t think any party can fix this problem very easily. We go back forth electing Repub then Democ. and it is like being on a hamsters wheel. Do you think one or the other is really going to make that much of a difference? I really don’t. I am not sure at this point if I will even bother to vote. We don’t really get to choose a truly viable person to be in the White House anyway. It is just more of the same old crap! I am sick of it!

    • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

      The only way to change the cycle of tax and spend is to change the thinking of the American people. So long as the people accept the status quo and continue to be sheeple, nothing will truly change. If you don’t like what you see, change it. If you don’t like what you see and you sit on your butt and do nothing, then you are part of the problem.

      • Ah, Lint Picker (No. Cal.) your “then you are part of the problem” comment reminded me of this other bit I read:

        “…The governments of your city and your county are as uncorrupt and responsible as government can be, right? [You’ve been “a man of ACTION!”, right?] You’ve chased all the bad guys out and replaced them with representatives who never break laws or overstep their bounds — true servants of the citizenry. Whatever inclinations they might have toward citizen abuse are curbed either by their integrity or their fear of what You the People will do to them. If the smallest act of abuse or corruption ever raises its head, you and your activist friends are immediately able to whack it down. This is how your local governments are run, right?…

        If this thing you’re always recommending [engaging government] worked, you’d already be working it in your own political arena, right? You’d have examples to show us. Your YouTube channel would be filled with videos of honest, helpful cops and honest, respectful, law-abiding politicians in action. You’d have Twitter feeds boasting of your clean government — or at least boasting of how terrified of you your local pols are. You’d hold seminars demonstrating how you did it. Freedom seekers by the tens of thousands would flock to your hometown — to live there or just to learn from you.

        I don’t see any of that happening. Why not? If you’re so darned sure [being a man of ACTION!] produces honest, responsive government … well, show us.

        I’m waiting.”

        • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

          You are apparently assuming I do nothing in my own community to get rid of corruption, crime, bad politicians and the like. You would be very wrong. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the people who live here are content with the status quo since they benefit from it. This is exactly why I posted what I did to Marcia. I dare say I have done far more in my life to fight corruption at all levels of government than you will ever do in yours.

          Actually, I’m surprised you would even bother posting a got-ya comment to me since I know how busy you are worrying about iodized salt, chemtrails, and poltergeists. LMAO

          • I assumed Nothing. It was just something I was reminded of, that’s all. However; I noticed you didn’t post your Youtube channel describing your local success, per the link. Perhaps you missed the entire point of the author of the link?

            It’s a bit sad how you try and turn things around back on me and avoid the meat of the link.
            It wasn’t a got-ya comment, it was a, “learn from it” comment.
            I worry about Nothing. I am simply cautious and observant.

            Also, what hat did you pull the poltergeists comment out of? Yeesh. All I can say is, I expected a better reply than the presumptuous one I got.

            • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

              Youtube is not my medium of choice. If you want to see my own “successes” at stopping or ending corruption at the local level, you’d have to subscribe to the newspaper here in my town. If you’d like to subscribe, let me know and I’ll give you the newspaper’s contact information.

              What do you advocate for change? You do act, don’t you? Or do you only ridicule those who do?

    • Leaving Obama in office for another 4 years is a guarantee of a no change situation. The people that voted for him voted for him to be honest and took him at his word. His word and promises are worth nothing……….so we must do what we can to replace him and replace the congress members over and over and over until they get it. Sorry to hear you aren’t going to vote. At this time, it is one of the few rights we have that aren’t being challenged. Leave this dude in office for 4 more years of his attitude of “executive privilege” with a stroke of a pen and it is ok to ignore the Constitution and we may lose our right to an election.

      • Straight ticket GOP in 2012 for me , if we can can pack enough seats in the senate and house to make him ineffective , it may be the next best thing to getting him out . Would prefer to see him out as well as any Dem majority .

      • Hunker-Down says:

        I almost voted for him when he promised to get rid of all of the lobbyists in D.C. Lost count of the lies.
        Remember I said ALMOST.

    • I agree with Marcia to a large extent. I would vote for Dem or Repub or Lib or whoever (maybe not LaRouche) if they said that the US is suicidally in debt. And to recover if possible at all, we will have to raise some more revenue, drastically cut military budgets and treaty commitments. Europe, South Korea, and Japan will have to provide their own soldiers and pay for their own defense. Go to a states rights model – why do we need a federal department of education? energy? etc. Possibly consider a VAT.

      I don’t know for sure that every element is a great winner, but we won’t get out of this hole by keeping the status quo with incremental shifts to the left or the right. Protect individual liberty, keep a strong defense for the US homeland, but nothing else can be considered sacrosanct.

      We can take our medicine and hope to keep ourselves from the big fall, or we can slide for who knows how long before something really catastrophic happens.

      • Jefferson said ” Commerce with all , allies with none should be our motto ” I would take it a bit further and have limited commerce with all and allies with none .

    • Remember this… The last 2 years of Bush, the dems controlled the purse strings. They controlled congress.

  53. This totally depends on the results of the 2012 election. Will enough voters wake up? Or will the idiots and moochers win?

    • jingl……

      Idiots and moochers vote and idiots and moochers outnumber the tax payers…..who are you betting is going to win?

      • What have I been saying since O got elected?
        He is the first “Welfare President”…. Yes, the welfare class will keep him in office, and the USA will go down to ruin and grief.
        Vote the Seccesion Party, folks!

      • Hunker-Down says:

        Dang, I wish you had not said that. The truth hurts.

        Maybe only taxpayers should be allowed to vote? Hows that for a loosing political platform. Depressing.

        • Hunker-Down….

          “Maybe only taxpayers should be allowed to vote”…….

          There’s a lot of rational things that could be said for that. But, alas, it will never happen!

      • IT is not those idiots who will win the election. It will be the idiots that will stay home if thier chosen one is not on the ticket that will give us 4 more years of oVamanos. That kind of thinking is what got him elected the first time.

        • Hunker-Down says:

          Hi Ron,
          I wont stay home. Its like my favorite football team is anybody who is playing the Bears this week.
          If my candidate is not on the ticket, I don’t care; I’ll vote for the telephone pole in front of your house if that’s TDL’s opponent.

          • Right now there is a good size group of candidates out there that all beat oVamanos. However there are three that I would have to hold my nose to vote for.
            But I will be there and that telephone pole will get my vote if need be.

          • Let’s see the birth certificate of that phoney pole, I think that it was made in Canada.

  54. Marcia, I agree with you a bit. It Is just more of the same old crap, except there is One who has not been handling the same old crap, and that is Ron Paul, a.k.a. Dr. No. I’d vote for him if I get the chance, but I will not be voting for any others.

    I selected six months based numerous comments by financial People who anticipate a correction happening in the U.S. stock market in the next two months, “Ben Bernanke is not going to prop up the stock market with more quantitative easing, not yet anyway” the Fed needs a crash to use as reason to unleash QE IV.

    This would be the beginning of a total economic collapse.

    Additionally, “something may happen to the [Chinese] economy sooner rather than later. Obviously, top Chinese central bankers agree with us, because according to Xinhua, rates are being tightened again.”
    This rate tightening brings on the crash.
    “It may be staved off for a while but, in our view, come it will.”

    The other side issues to a financial crash, and the financial crash itself, are much like the creeping advance of Yellow Fever was on Memphis:

    An Economic Yellow Fever Is Headed Your Way

    Quite a few American jobs rely on imports from China, some People fail to realize this, yet the number of jobs lost due to imports from China are very very small, and, contrary to many claims, quite insignificant compared the massive amount of American industrial production:

    These Threats Will Not Collapse America’s Economy

    • mountain lady says:

      I see you also read The Daily Bell. In that case, you probably have a vcry good idea as to where the world is headed. I read an article on ZeroHedge last evening, and for a few minutes I thought I was here on We are not the only group that is seeing what is coming.

    • Allow me to introduce to the court, Exhibit A.
      “I’d vote for him if I get the chance, but I will not be voting for any others”.
      oVamanos just has to LOVE this kind of thinking.

      • templar knight says:

        Yep, Ron, this is exactly what will put Obama in office for another 4 years. Well, that, and voter intimidation and voter fraud.

      • Uh, Ron, there’s only one candidate that has a proven track record of liberty and freedom, if he does not get past the primaries there’s really no point in voting for anyone else, it then becomes a question of, who do you want to be the decider of your life, warmonger #1, or Warmonger #2 … I think I’ll pass and say, neither.

        • On behalf of the oVamanos lovers and socialist everywhere, Thank you for your “Principle Before Logic” sensibility. A vote not cast against TDL is two votes for him.
          Or as an old Colnel once advised a young Sgt. “You may be correct but Is that the sword you want to fall on”?

          • ron, my colonel said “are you prepared to fall on your sword over it?” same sentiment, i knew we were brothers at arms in another life.

  55. It happened two months ago in July. That was so simple even a cave man could see it.

    Just poking a little fun. Hopefully we are preparing for our families so we don’t have to worry quite as much as most should. I do have to admit, I have been wondering if my slow and steady pace should get a little more spring in its step. I have had some serious urges to buy a couple grand in silver and get some cornmeal, lentils, barley, and split peas I have been putting off, even if it screws up our family’s plans for a new vehicle. But then again I have lots of urges I shouldn’t be giving in to. I’ll try and keep my slow and steady pace for now…

    • mountain lady says:

      What are you waiting for, the prices will only go up. I actually cashed in a little gold a few months ago because I felt I did not have enough food storage.

      • Holy Moley, mountain lady… that was a good investment, in spite of what gold is going for these days. Have you been to the grocery store lately? I just went last night, and spent about $250 for about 10 of those flimsy plastic bags of groceries… and feel like I got nothing! My shopping habits don’t change much from year to year… I keep Excel spreadsheets of my shopping list on my laptop, and I save them in a file. I keep track of what I spend on each trip, going back almost 10 years. In about 8 months, I’ve gone from spending $170/week on groceries to over $250! That’s not OK. Looks like we are beginning to feel the results of all that printing going on down there in Bernacke’s corner of the country. That’s a lot of money. And they wonder why discretionary spending is dead?

        • mountain lady says:

          I only get to town every 4 to 6 weeks, so the price rise is very obvious. I have been forced to change some of my shopping habits, but there are quite a few items that I will miss when I can no longer afford to buy them.

  56. Chilly Beaver says:

    My 2 cents from north of the border (poster formerly know as newCdnPrepper)

    I filled in 3 – 5 years, but for whats its worth, I think we are all ready in the beginning stages of a complete financial meltdown, but expect that many wont acknowlege it until large scale conflict arrises. Our resources, jobs, and standard of living are being exported to the third world and BRIC countries at an alarming rate. Globalization could probably be a wonderful thing in a utopian environment, but that is not what we have, we have 1% of the population controlling 90% of the wealth. IMHO we are becoming obsolete to the banksters because we are all ready consumerist junkies that twitch when we dont get our “fixes” and now that that we have spent every dollar that we have (and more like all of the $ our children will make in their lives) its time to move to greener pastures, where the sheeple are even more docile and all ready used to being marginalized and treated like cattle by authoritarian government. Moooooooo!

    • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

      Chilly Beaver?? LMAO. That has a whole different connotation in the USA. Might want to change your screen name again. Leave out the “Beaver” part and go with Chilly Muskox or something that has nothing to do with female body parts. Just sayin’.

      • Chilly Beaver says:

        My sense of humour is a little twisted Lint Picker, and Ive been called worse by many. lol

      • I’m with you lint. I was prepared to start a “thermal underpants” drive,and mail them north. I shoulda left this alone. Last time we had a chuckle about the term beaver,I had a few terse words with another poster whom I’ve grown to admire a great deal. I think she forgives me though.

        • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

          Brad, I think I will have to refer to Chilly Beaver as CB in the future. That should keep me safe from those feisty females.

    • Chilly Beaver wrote, “Our resources, jobs, and standard of living are being exported to the third world and BRIC countries at an alarming rate.”

      You must’ve skipped the link to the G. North article above.

      Here’s another similar one you might find enlightening:

      “…36% of the price U.S. consumers pay for imported goods actually goes to U.S. companies and workers.

      This U.S. fraction is much higher for imports from China. Whereas goods labeled “Made in China” make up 2.7% of U.S. consumer spending, only 1.2% actually reflects the cost of the imported goods. Thus, on average, of every dollar spent on an item labeled “Made in China,” 55 cents go for services produced in the United States. In other words, the U.S. content of “Made in China” is about 55%…”

      Think about that.

  57. Maybe I should have added, if it doesn’t start in six months, I’m better prepared for when it does start, if I take that approach.

    “I Think The Treasury Market Is A Disaster Waiting To Happen.
    All I am saying is I am very bearish. I think we will have inflation. I think the Treasury market is a disaster waiting to happen. I think the economy will slow down. They’re going to print money and we will go to war at some stage somewhere.” –

    “… The entire global financial system is collapsing and Only the little children believe that it’s going to be saved”

  58. I went for 1-2 years . Obama will bring us down if he can within that time frame. Particularly if his poll numbers keep going down and it looks like he won’t be reelected. He will leave behind a smoking hole when he is booted out. Emediate impeachment is the answer if anyone in the House has th guts to lead it. Maybe Alan West with Tea Party support. I’m probably dreaming huh?

    • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

      Obama could be brought up on several impeachment charges, but the Senate will never support it. He is going to destroy this country before the 2012 election. It may take a couple years for the full weight of his executive orders, Obamacare, immigration politicies, etc. to be felt but they will be felt and by then it will be too late.

      Prep like crazy, Wolf Pack, the days draw short regardless of which timeframe you chose. Forget about the politics, just do what you can to save yourselves and in doing so, you may ultimately save America… as she was intended to be.

      • mountain lady says:

        LP: You are so right. As much as I wanted to take a break from prepping, now is not the time to do it.

  59. I chose never…I know things are tuff and they keep on
    gettin worse . We do all this preppin for good reason ,to
    safeguard against worse times . Fear not Wolfpack for the great and
    Don’t Mess With Texas Gov. Rick Perry will save us all and he and his
    appointed staff will straighten things out …Remember the Alamo and
    Don’t Mess With The USA !!! Will fight to the death for that which we believe !

    My 2nd pick is 2-3 yrs….I can’t afford to prep for longer than that ,
    I don’t have the room anyway !

  60. Like many others I also believe we have already started on our downward spiral. So I give it 2-3 years at the most. I hate to say it but I think that collapse is this administration’s intent. Anyone ever hear of Cloward-Piven?

    It feels like 1775, 1858, and 1932 all rolled into one. We are sitting on an economic and political powder keg. Take one pivotal event (it could be just about anything, take your pick), add to the mix, shake vigorously and then watch it all blow to kingdom come.

    The question is which way will America ultimately go? Will we return to our Constitutional roots and become the shining beacon on the hill once again? Will the nation split with no hope of reconciliation? Or, worst case, will we become slaves in a totalitarian nightmare?

    In the end, the fate of this nation will all come down to which individuals have the greater will to succeed – those who take or those who do for themselves. I could write so much more but thinking about how “the powers that be” play with our lives just makes my brain hurt.

    • mountain lady says:

      Read “Atlas Shrugged” by Ayn Rand if you get a chance, and hope that it is over soon. If the progressives win at this game, it will take a few more years. I really cannot see them winning this one.

      • mountain lady, I’ve been meaning to read Atlas Shrugged for years now, but never found the time to finish the whole thing. I’m familiar with the story line, though, and in many ways have “gone Galt” myself. But I am trying to do what I can to keep the faith.

        • richard muszynski says:

          greetings. but if you try to keep the faith and support the evil ones then in effect you are contributing to the problem. Ayn Rand in her books never tolerated a parasite such as our leaders are loaded with. nor did she ever have any of her characters give in to them either.

  61. Wonder what y’all will be saying 3 to 5 years from now when nothing’s happened. I mean, haven’t we already went right on past some of the other predicted deadlines? Someone should mark down this date and start keeping track from this day.

  62. I vote “it does not matter” – when you are prepared. How you prepare IS a matter of time-scale, but eventually you get in the mindset and it becomes a lifestyle – part of the culture. But for the vast majority that are the clueless sheeple, it won’t matter anyway. If it drags out a whole generation or two into the future, then being prepared takes on different meaning – in terms of not just in our lives, but it becomes important to pass on our principles, national identity, and preparedness mindset to the next generations. As for Dark Night, someone please turn on his porch light.

  63. frank sherman says:

    i voted one year or less. why? look at the choices we have.obama says he has to fix bush,s mistakes. ok. but he has made such a mess of it who can fix his ? i,m retired and have a fixed income if they take anything away or prices go up anymore i just wont make it. there are millions of americans just like me who can,t and wont accept the same old shit from washington. if enough people just drop out of the system now they will have no tax base. no taxes no big bucks to play with. it will all come crashing down and i don,t think it will take more than one year to happen.yall can joke and have a good time yakking about it but this is some serious shit!!!!!

    • richard muszynski says:

      greetings. you may not know it but you have just stated the main theme in Ayn Rands novel and philosophy, stop contributing to the problem and back out of it. stop producing wealth for them. stop using your mind for their enrichment. stop making the chains they use to chain you down with. be more like John Galt and simply stop feeding the beast and it will come down by itself. and Atlas Shrugged is also available on tape or CD for those who don’t have the time or don’t wish to read the book. would be a really good idea for those out there who call themselves libertarians to read or listen to it as well. Ayn Rand never advocated bargaining with the devils. which is why one will read so much against her on the net. compromise was never part of her philosophy.

  64. The Dark Lord and his ilk are hard at work to create chaos, overwhelm the system, and collapse it. TDL is just an ego-on-a-string, controlled by the powerful elitists globally but he BELIEVES there is a need for “fundamental change” and world “justice” because he was raised as a Socialist. So he is committed to his ideology and fits perfectly with the global plan.

    There are a number of tactics that have been put into play and one tactic has been to employ Keynesian economics again — this way, they can devalue the US Dollar through spending. Keynesian believed that when people saved their money, they created recessions and even depressions — his belief was that if people (and systems) were forced to spend, the money would grow-the-economy. Keynes heavily influenced FDR and through him, the “New Deal” was formulated…..the deal that propelled Socialism in the US. Didn’t work then, doesn’t work now.

    For the most part, Keynesian economics died in the 1970s and only recently was resurrected from the dead in 2008 after the crash. Why? Because Keynesian economics will raise the prices of stocks and the global corporations and investors hunger for the $$$ ! As it stands, Keynesian economics proves that lowered interest rates and qualitative easing do little more than artificially stimulate the Market, create inflation, and devalue the monetary system. See the proof of these 3 things now???

    What most Americans are unaware of is the failing economy in Europe. The EU is in deep doodoo and will fail via a domino effect.They can’t print money like we can and the European banks are heavily leveraged. Greece will be the first to go under unless it is bailed out. (Check the 2 yr bond market for Greece…there’s a reason for the high % yield! High risk!) Greece has a total debt of about 330 billion euros (or U.S. $473 billion) (See: So how did the Greek debt get out of control? As it turned out, major U.S. banks, specifically J.P. Morgan Chase and Goldman Sachs, helped their government cover the true extent of its deficit with the help of a derivatives deal. Who knew their involvement is part of the EU financial collapse? Well, anyone who has been studying the Federal Reserve and the global elites. The sting is that the Federal Reserve stated they’ll investigate the US bank involvement of the Greek debt problem. And just WHO sits on the Board of the Federal Reserve??? Nothing like the police policing police, huh?

    The plan is globalism and the destruction of the US is intentional — The New World Order is not a conspiracy theory, the evidence is overwhelming and can be seen in every major subsystem in the US. Everywhere you turn, the large financial institutes have pillaged to the point of no return. And we have collusion with the Federal Government to make the ‘thieving’ a very large money sweep.

    Of course there are a number of simultaneous events and policies, all with the intent to fundamentally change and radically transform the US and the “global market”.

    The Dark Lord’s slogan was “Hope and Change” — carefully planned with a double-meaning. Hope is a word used when fear is sensed and little can be done. Oppressive governments use this tactic to render their targets into submission. To radically change, then transform America, the socialists believe you must ‘overwhelm the system’. It is happening now.

    We can stop The Dark Lord but we will not stop the global elitists. There is simply too much at stake for them and they are well-placed at-the-ready. Civilizations come and go for reasons. Ever wonder why?

    • To every tyrant there is an anti -tyrant , the anti -tyrants are typically slow to rouse . But once roused , the tyrant usually comes to a violent end . One world order ? doomed to failure because of human nature . You cant conquer the world or can you save it . Any success they may have will not last long because there is always somebody that wants what they have , even within their own ranks . A world wide collapse will bring back the every man for himself attitude……. goodbye and good riddance to globalization .

      • TR, Maybe you misunderstood — I do not believe a New World Order will prevail. Like many other “civilizations”, it too will fail. However, when reviewing history, the reign of tyrants and the control of oppressive governments can be measured in decades and scores of years. It’s best not to dismiss the long-lasting effects.

        Whether a NWO is in effect for 10 years or a century, life will change (and we are witnessing this now). New paths will be blazed and the resulting chaos will challenge multitudes of people who are physically, mentally, and spiritually unprepared. Few are ready for subsistence lifestyles, most don’t even understand it, but those who can rise above all of the tyranny and turmoil will help mold a new civilization. And I dare say it will not be “global”. Our own political leaders cannot even conduct business effectively — the NWO is absurd.

        • Agreed ,
          What is encouraging is we are seeing Nationalism resurfacing everywhere , its natural and healthy , I cant see the EU surviving a collapse , I see them going back to being separate and sovereign nations again . The British didnt join it because they wanted to maintain their own identity and could see ahead that all that was going to happen was the strong industrial countries propping up the weaker welfare nations economically . Only time this nation was as polarized , restless , and discontent as it is now , was just before the outbreak of the civil war . We are already mentally separate , the meaning of ” your country ” to many and a growing amount of people is your family , your neighborhood and your state or region . Washington might as well be Moscow for as much as it really means anything to people who dont live there . I do predict an eventual break up . When ? I have no idea .But I see it as not an IF but more as a WHEN . I dont really see military action to stop it this time around either , foolish ? perhaps , but I see it more like the Soviet government throwing in the towel when it happened to that nation . Love your posts Lynn 😉
          Stars & Bars !

  65. Hey Carl…, I mean Kati….er, I mean YOU ARE A SPAMMER. You left much of that same post on my blog but I didn’t post it. IP: “The truth is very simple. The average American will have to lower their standard of living. Prices are going up, up, up. When you have to spend more on food and gas you’ll have to cut something else.We are stocking up on food storage to prepare for what is surely to come. Check out The food is fantastic and the prices low (… for now). I’ve got car insurance, and home insurance…. food insurance is the logical next step. Even if things are getting better, which I doubt, we can always eat the food!”


    • AZ Rookie Prepper says:

      Good catch LynnS. Glad someone outed “carl” or “kati” or whoever that person is.

  66. Hunker-Down says:

    Allie has, in my opinion, the sequence of effects from QE1 and QE2 on our different economic classes correct. I would point out that price inflation has hit me hard already. A pair of Levis, a pair of shoes, a bag of sugar, a gallon of gas; I get sticker shock in every isle of every store. My purchasing power has shrunk in the last 9 months and I believe it will get worse because QE3 is coming. As Allie points out, the inflationary effect of QE1 and 2 have not yet fully arrived on Main Street.

    QE3 will show up in a disguise. Obummer will get Freddie and Fannie to fund the restructuring of home mortgages and the Fed will print the money (QE3). TDL will bury the announcement in an upcoming speech, and it will get up to 10,000,000 beneficiaries to vote for him!

    The combined inflationary effect of QE1, QE2 and QE3 will force millions of Americans to no longer be able to afford to eat. When will it happen? I don’t know the velocity of inflation, so I don’t know when the riots will start. This time, inflation will not discriminate between cities, it will be nationwide. When it happens the authorities will abandon their posts as they did in LA and Detroit.

    If our debtors decide to abandon the dollar as a reserve currency, TEOTWAWKI will follow minutes behind. Another catalyst will be the collapse of the E.U.

    Todays organized gangs will sense the collapse of authority and take advantage by becoming regional warlords. I imagine they already have a reserve stockpile of guns and ammo. Hopefully they will run out of gasoline before making it to my house, but there’s still the local sheeple with which to contend.

    If the democrats stay in control of government, we will continue down the road TDL is pushing us down. If the republicans get control I think they will not be able to siphon the money away from Main Street that TDL printed; either way we need to look to 1990’s Argentina for our future.

    I think it will all happen in less than two years.

    • Hunker-Down,

      Thanks for the really intelligent post. I just can’t believe that the vast majority of Americans are unaware of inflation. Don’t the look at their receipts? The cost of food scares me. The idea of our fellow Americans not having enough to eat scares me. I am not sure any of us have experienced anything on par with what we can expect. Back during the Great Depression, the vast majority of Americans had the values of hard work, determination, self reliance and honesty. As a whole, our society today lacks these values. It’s going to be much worse.

      • Only good news about that is if we do hit rock bottom , no place to go from there but up . Look at what we can do as a nation if we are properly motivated . Our farmers if unrestrained , can feed the nation with food to spare , our industry can make everything we need without difficulty . Best example i can show for this is when we got angry when we were pulled into WW2 . In two short years the nation went from the great depression to pumping out food and equipment for not only ourselves , but ALL the allies . yes there was rationing but we were fed and employed . Lazy people and government can only continue to be so if they are enabled . If they are no longer enabled , its amazing how fast they can change .

  67. blindshooter says:

    I pray we don’t see a quick collapse, I think that would be hell on earth for a long time. I’m not prepared for that and don’t think I ever will be. I fear for our young people, just don’t see them having the same opportunities I’ve had most of my life.

    For the folks that say “when the checks stop, look out here they come”, I don’t believe they will ever stop. They just won’t be worth anything right along with paper dollars and it has been happening for some time already, is that the way they stop entitlements? I’m still looking for ways to save that don’t involve banks or paper money at all.

    Do most of you think it will take a collapse to reset America? I think so. I just can’t picture exactly how it will happen. I’d be the one eyed man in the land of the blind if I could:^)

    • And wait till O’bama care really kicks in! Can you even imagine a Government that insists all citizens prove they have insurance but don’t have to prove they are citizens? WTF!

    • mountain lady says:

      blindshooter, I, too, believe it will take a collapse to reset America. I believe we are headed to some very hard times, but I hope and pray that there are enough Americans left that we can save her.

  68. The powers to be will stretch it out until after 2012 elections and if the Dems win they might be able to continue for a short time but if the Repubs win they will pull the plug to make them appear responsible. In my opinion it is not a question of “will it happen” but “when” and it won’t be nice. The country has lost its moral compass and too many people believe that they are “entitled” to any thing they want. The concept of personal pride in providing for ones self or family has died in a large segment of our population.


    Hi WolfPack-
    Just because we aren’t high-rollers on Wall Street doesn’t mean we aren’t right. The above link is to an article that appeared in the Wall Street Journal this morning. It highlights some advice that Goldman Sachs wrote in a brief intended to be seen only internally. The advice is chilling. Jeez Louise… I’m pretty freaked out.

    • Lint Picker (Northern California) says:

      I couldn’t read the entire article because I wasn’t a subscriber and I refuse to subscribe even if it’s free for 2 weeks. Ain’t gonna fall for that.

      Perhaps you can give us the gist of the story? Just what did that Goldman Sachs expert suggest the super-wealthy do with their money? It’s always fun to learn how the rich people live.
      (I wish I was one.)

  70. Land of the Blind,… have you ever seen that film? Very interesting, imho.

    Also, for those who are interested, QE III has already taken place, it is the pledge of holding down of interest rates. Next up is QE IV.

  71. I voted 2-3 years but I don’t foresee a total collapse. I do think that this is the “lost decade”, a popular phrase I’ve seen many times, usually on the money forums. It took years to amass this incredible debt and will take years to get out of it. This is a stagnant economy, little growth, high unemployment and a housing market that started tanking in 2005(I can’t tell you how many times I read about the housing bubble) and this is the result. Too easy credit, people using their homes like ATMs, living on credit…this is what happens.

    I do suspect that there will be a degree of civil unrest and these flash mobs and days of rage will become more commonplace.

    My husband and I have seen this coming for a few years now and have built a life that is debt free, more self-sustainable and as frugal as possible. More need to get on board with this concept because if they don’t they will be in a world of hurt. Of course, they’ll probably blame someone else…like the “rich.”

    I don’t have a crystal ball and can’t accurately predict what’s coming down the pike but we continue to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

  72. In case some don’t know: This economy has already collapsed.
    To repeat: This economy has already collapsed.

    When will this economy collapse? Might as well ask, When will this game of musical chairs end? For that reason I say we will spend as long as possible but spending will vary by time and place.

    In this collapse there is no praise for present or future administrations; no time to squander on blame. In America the seeds were set long ago and the “world” economy now patterns many failed civilization; much as the halting collapse of the Roman Empire. As a poet said (I put it in a wider context) things don’t go out with a bang but with a whimper; except in movies and video games.

    The economy has collapsed and our infrastructure is shot from roads and bridges to the halls of Congress.

    The only valid question is: When will the economy come to an end for ( @ )< insert your name and location? Of course a city may burn here and there but that's hardly cause to buy books on economic solutions or "the sky is falling events" from a seemingly endless supply of snake oil salesmen.

    In the game of musical chairs we find countless "solutions" from those who see themselves as the piano player or being educated and skilled chair movers. Don't play this game on yourself. The piano player is time and chance (or God depending on your world view) and survival the result of action.

    What did you do to prepare today? Good question. Don't fall into the game trap where millions work to maintain a seat or sell game chairs.
    Stand ready outside the game and watch it "go down." Always look at What Is and refuse to pay or play What If?

  73. SrvivlSally says:

    I will give it 2 to 3 but that will depend upon how our economy is handled. If, for example, too many more are laid off and require food stamps or financial assistance, that system could collapse should the money not be managed properly. If the systems that are in place right now are overburdened like the stamps and cash assistance, they could very well collapse. I recently learned that there is a problem within the area of food production here in our country because the growers are becoming less and less able to keep up with the demand because food is being overconsumed. In other words, the farmers have only so much room to grow food upon and people are eating more than the farmers are able to produce. Collapse is inevitable if people do not turn from their SuperSizeMe, Burger King lifestyles, putting more into their stomachs than is necessary and stop overburdening the food system. I know for a fact, please do not ask me how I know, that many overweight people eat, or snack, all day long, every day. Every time I go to Wal Mart, there are at least 70% of the people inside the store that are overweight, their stomachs sticking out sometimes way past their chests or breasts. In my opinion, people really are eating way more than what can be produced. In the fifty’s people sat down at the dinner table and ate together. Today, they join one another at restaurants. Everything surrounds food. There are scores of cooking shows which use fattening ingredients and unhealthy levels of salt. Cream, sour cream, butter, peanut butter and other ingredients that are a “no-no” for heart patients and overweight individuals are normally used. On New Year’s Eve, I never make a resolution to “lose weight” as so many people do. I have watched celebrities work for six weeks to take off weight. If people do not turn it around, the food system could collapse. Without food to eat, the human body can go only so far before it runs out of steam which means that anyone not eating much will eventually lose their job once their body gives out to lack of nourishment and energy. If a majority of workers were going hungry and their lost their jobs because of it then it would stand to reason that, with the rest of the nation undergoing hunger as well, the economy could collapse. No one working=no one putting money into the economy= no businesses up and running because work is not getting done and the result will be a nation on it’s knees. The wealthy would have to rethink the situation of how they got rich in the first place. It took workers and then buyers to get them to where they are right now for without them they would never have been able to expand, create additional jobs and reap huge benefits, or sums of money. It was the bankers and individuals who sought after wealth that created a system in which we are all now dependent upon but without one another, there will be no system. No food system would lead to no need for government other than to act in a manner that tries to out-tax it’s citizens for the land that they live upon…my forefathers left good ol’ England way back then to live in a land of freedom which is only dripping milk and honey now. The heat wave may dry them up but I will pray that our nation will turn and be healed. Nations are based on systems and the overburdening of them could knock their legs right out from under them. I would not go to my survival supplies and use them all up nor would I do that with my money. If I did, I would have nothing left but still have needs that I could not meet. My entire empire would collapse right under my feet. No food+no money=sell everything I’ve got just to survive.

    • SrvivlSally wrote, “There are scores of cooking shows which use fattening ingredients and unhealthy levels of salt. Cream, sour cream, butter, peanut butter and other ingredients that are a “no-no” for heart patients and overweight individuals are normally used.”

      If you come back and read this,… you might be interested in these other perspectives, personally I think the problem for most People is sugar and high fructose corn syrup:

      7 Reasons to Eat More Saturated Fat

      “The two doctors note that no matter how the story spins from the denizens of the anti-fat camp, one piece of their advice remains staunchly constant: “You should sharply limit your intake of saturated fats.” But will saturated fats really increase your risk of heart disease and raise your cholesterol? In a word, no. In fact, humans need them, and here are just a few reasons why:”

      The Definitive Guide to Saturated Fat

      “… the Standard American Diet, with its massive amounts of grains, sugar, starches, margarines, vegetable oils, and yes, some red meat and artery-clogging saturated fat, is bad for us. The researchers may try to seize on a single aspect of the diet (usually saturated fat), but that only tells us that saturated fat has a bad reputation. Is it deserved? We certainly can’t draw any conclusions from an observational study confounded by dozens of other variables. And yet still the crazy headlines jump out from all angles: “Saturated Fat Linked To Pancreatic Cancer!”; “Colon Cancer And Red Meat: Is Your Burger Killing You?” I think I did a decent job disassembling the latest red meat (read: saturated fat) scare study, as did Dr. Eades.”

      Cutting Back on Salt ‘Does Not Make You Healthier’ (Despite Nanny State Warnings)

      “Eating less salt will not prevent heart attacks, strokes or early death, according to a major study.

      Its findings contradict all recommendations by the Government and medical profession urging the public to reduce the amount of salt they consume…”

      I hope that was helpful.

      • SrvivlSally says:

        Thank you for your reply and I agree that salt is not going to stop anything from happening (once a heart or neck artery is clogged it must be manually cleaned out and stented) but I believe that it has been proven that salt has something to do with blood pressure and, I know this for a fact, when you have congestive heart failure, or CHF, as it is known amongst the medical professionals, that the feet will swell due to the kidneys not functioning properly and salt should be refrained from at that point. One person that I, not long ago, stayed awake hour upon hour with due to their having CHF had to receive loads of Lasix to remove the water from around their heart and to help decrease the swelling that their feet were undergoing due to their kidneys malfunctioning. I could go further into the details about what certain foods are doing to people internally, but I will leave it at that and with a picture of overweight, obese, morbidly obese individuals which are consuming fattening, salty, blood pressure-raising=hearts being overworked, prematurely at that, foods. I know about high fructose corn syrup and much in regards to most of the “health” information that has been recently promoted but we must take into account the serious health problems of those whom are affected which will link us into why doctors make “health” recommendations. If you have noticed, it is when a person has an ailment such as high blood pressure, heart disease and so forth that a doctor will say something. But he or she will not say anything to those persons which go unaffected. Personally, I am glad that I moved away from high fructose corn syrup as it really did make a difference. It was a choice I made after I tested what life would be like without sodas and other foods with the sweetener in them. Heart patients are not to consume more than 2400 mg sodium, which equals 1 teaspoon of salt per day, or their heart and other organs and bodily functions may suffer. It would be more preferable to stay within an 1800 mg intake but it is purely optional for most patients. Again, eating less salt is intended only for those with health problems such as heart disease which is linked into strokes which is linked into diabetes which is linked into weight which is linked into blood pressure which comes right back around to being linked into the heart. Whether or not a person has heart or other ailments, they should still watch their salt. Salt will make you retain water and some heart patients, in the end, wind up losing pound after pound of water weight. It is truly amazing how much weight some people lose while they are lying in a hospital bed, fed by intravenous tubes of clear water-removing liquid. I would say that we should all listen to the heart doctors because they do know what they are talking about. You really should give the Americanheartassociation and other heart-minded organizations a try so that you might live a little longer yourself. Also, why don’t you try cooking a piece of chicken without the fat on it and a hamburger and see how much fat comes out of each. You have to use seperate pans or otherwise you will never know which one contains the most fat. I have seen open heart surgeries and that darned layer of fat that sits around the heart muscle of heart patients is sometimes astounding. And the first time that I saw a thick strand of fat being from a vein was a little eery. You could always try speaking with a medical student who is specializing in the heart when they are in their residency because by then they should be able to tell you all sorts of things about the heart and heart patients. When you offer advice which does not come straight from the horses mouth, i.e., the heart surgeon, heart doctor, physician, heart association, etc., you should prepare because you could put your foot in your own.

        • ..” (once a heart or neck artery is clogged it must be manually cleaned out and stented –

          Not necessarily true.. but good info if you want to keep the medical procedures gang and pharmaceutical big boys very rich though.. Check out Dr William Davis at and learn about changing your life with food – understanding how different foods really work in our bodies and changing how you eat (it’s not what you think either)

          If you are really into being self-reliant, start with breaking away from the industrial food and pharamceutical machine. Stop reading the mainstream media crap on health and nutrition.

      • Primal Clark How’s it going? All great info.. Upward and onward man! Since my turn around in Jan 2010 (started researching in ~April 2009) the puzzle pieces have been forming up. What is very clear now (and was not a time ago) is that my growth and evolution into undertstanding my libertarian nature has been in step with my realizations about the science of food and medicine – and government control of both! Also in parallel, my return to wilderness /bushcraft skills and general preparedness mindset has been in synch with this new/old way I have found. The significance of the change in my health is what makes me so outspoken about this subject when someone brings up health and nutrition. Too bad it took me 40 years to get here.

        • Once again, cool reply, Scout – and – I agree.

          I kind of got the impression SrvivlSally didn’t read the links, maybe someone else who doesn’t know will read them? That would be good.

    • richard muszynski says:

      greetings. hate to disagree, but the farms you are mentioning are not farms as we used to know them. they are corporate farms, huge farms of thousand of acres farmed with huge equipment and usually producing only one product, be it wheat or corn or soybeans. corporate farms do not have diversity and do not have animals such as cattle being raised as well. so no fertilizer of a natural origin. the solution they found was to use chemical fertilizers in enormous amounts. which accounts for a lot of our ground water contamination. the chemical fertilizers are simply washed out of the soil when it rains. and the government has taken a huge number of acres of prime farm land and takes the entire production of that land for growing corn and other crops to produce ethyl alcohol to be used to degrade our gasoline. the alcohol produced costs more to produce then the end product, ethyl alcohol, is worth. and all those acres no longer are in food production. i have read that the amount of land taken out of food production by the government is over a million acres in our prime food belt. we used to sell or give grain to places that needed it in the past. now we have no surplus, not even enough for ourselves. you mention fat people. should also mention Americans, especially children that are dying of starvation here. is no secret. the corporate farms can make more more money with the government subsidy to grow modified corn for the government then for food.

  74. AZ Rookie Prepper says:

    I voted for 2-3 years, but after having read the comments above, would probably change my mind to its already happening. Like many others, I see lots of problems. I do not see much being done to quantitatively or qualitatively fix those problems. Economics are so complex and so interwoven amongst so many different aspects of life (business, govt, international relations, etc) that its is very very difficult to see the “woods” when you have a big leaf in front of your eyes. As others have said, one major sudden issue could tip us over to a difficult to recover from disaster.
    On another note, has anyone here ever seen “the dark knight” posting before? It appeared to me to be “tongue in cheek”…or a commment made to get a discussion rolling. Any comments M.D.?

  75. KansasProud says:

    I voted 1 -2 years. I try to plan for the worst and hope for the best. I believe we are on the path of collapse and I don’t think it will change now no matter who is in office. I feel grief for our country.

  76. I read almost all of the comments before posting this. I voted one year or less. Most of all of you placed blame on Bush, wars, banks, unions, etc. ad nauseum……. but the truth of the matter is that everybody is correct in some regard. But in the bigger picture, if you step back, is that these things would have happened anyway, it is now, in this period of time, that these events are happening rapidly! And by design. One person posted that taxes have not increased and that is true except for that fact that we pay taxes on nearly everything we purchase. From certain foods to utilites to sin taxes and whatever is left over the Fed and State make sure to take that. People are very angry and despondant. That makes for a bitter stew! Sure, some people are not seeing any problems, currently, in their neck of the woods, but deep down, you have to admit that you can feel, taste, problems right around that sharp bend. I am totally sick of the work unsunstainable but it is what it is. And look at the bright side…………….if taxes, wars, unemployment, the bankers don’t get us the Sun just might. Remember the emp’s.

  77. There is no hope, only that which you produce. Depend on none but your self. In the long run it will pay.

    • richard muszynski says:

      greetings. will definitely keep you from being disappointed in those you thought you could count on.

  78. Matt in Oklahoma says:

    Wow I was out for a few days. I came back and kaboom, I saw a poll question and next thing ya know theres a gazillion comments and it looks like someone rang a boxing bell and everyone came out swinging. Why all the hate? Take an easy, it’s tough out here no doubt but no one thing is at fault so dont blame someone for their career choice when they are just trying to do better for their family and don’t get sucked in by the trolls who watch you on this site as their prep. and attempt to drive the wedge between you all when in fact you should be strengthening one another. Once these trolls get the wedge drove in by using race, pay etc drove in they will try and recruit you to their cause using the elite status as the draw such as you are all overweight and we are ripped commandos so join us. Think about it, if they are ripped commandos then where would they be? In the suck, over there, not behind the keyboard looking. No elite anything ever uses these tactics or wants you to be like them.
    Don’t turn on one another, it wont change anything.

    • richard muszynski says:

      greetings. you definitely have that right. divide and conquer. oldest war plan in the world. note though that you will not find actual current warriors, you have wanna be’s. old saying a brave man does not have to brag of his bravery. it is obvious to everyone. and whoever it is not obvious to does not matter. so no need to tell everyone how brave one is. is like a gunfighter in the old west. is no fastest gun, was always someone just a little faster.

  79. robert in mid michigan says:

    went for one to two years but if we can make meaningful change in dc we could avoid total collapse and only have to deal with a a severe recesion and or depression. better to take the medacine earlier than later.

  80. I hope the darknight is kidding, because if not he is living in fantasy land. 4 more years, are you insane dark night. Have your eyes been closed for the past 4 years. Everyone thinks obama does not know what he is doing, that he is an idiot. However, I think he knows exactly what he is doing, which is to destroy this country, one little piece at a time. He is such an obvious socialist that it is not even funny. Please people, wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • I think its even more sinister , I think he is a full blown Communist . Socialists still believe in some self rule , Communists believe in the state and nothing else .

  81. Interestingly, in this same poll about a year ago, the overwhelming majority said the economy would fail in less than two years. Apparently we are still saying that. Shouldn’t a lot of people from the poll a year ago have changed their answer in this year’s poll to reflect the loss of a year? Seems to me more people should have voted for one year or less.

    • AZ Rookie Prepper says:

      Sandyra, If exactly the same people were polled, it might play the way you suggest. However, other factors might be in play in terms of the poll and similar numbers. New folks participating in the poll, old readers not participating, economic situation fluctuations, and numerous other possibilities. It would also change/not change based upon exact wording of the poll too. Regardless, IMHO, we all need to continue prepping and hope for the best, expect the worst.

  82. I’ve been doing some reading on Boeing and the feds trying to prevent them from opening their factory in South Carolina, even though folks in S.C. want the jobs. I now see why you guys refer to Obama as a communist.

    • Yup, it is enraging that the NLRB fouled this deal up. So when Boeing moves to China to cut costs or China starts seriously competing, mark this down as the reason why we can’t get manufacturing to stay in the US. And to be able to say that this continues to be some random act is seriously ridiculous. Hard to not call in a conspiracy.

  83. America is kind of like “Dead man walking”. There is a very simply reason the economy hasn’t collapsed and it’s quite ironic. China is the single biggest investor and they simply won’t let it. They don’t just make everything anymore. They own everything. Economics is not about the welfare of the people or even the country. It’s about money.

  84. It started with FDR. That’s when the train left the tracks. Americans have become infantized. Social Security, welfare, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, unemployment checks, etc, all foster the idea that govenment should take care of us. This state of mind supresses the very thing that built this great nation. Our drive to innovate, explore and produce.
    We are in the midst of collapse right now. During the last great depression people sold apples and pencils on the streets to get money. Today you see garage sales, items placed on front lawns with “for sale” signs on them and flea markets where people are selling their no longer used items. If you want to see the modern day bread line, be at Walmart on the first of the month.
    This is it people, we are witnessing collapse right now! It has begun.

  85. i beleve the country will be ok in the long term we have gone through theese cyles be fore but for me a whitemale 52 poorly educated-untranable for the new world that is emeging the amarican dream is done for us and will not be back so must sirvive on the sysem as best we can and when thats done bug-out to the woods someplase and hope to die a natueral death,of corce rapture could ocure before then and we wount need to wory about it

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