I’m not a big fan of the bug out bag survival strategy. In a nutshell you’re voluntarily becoming, a refugee, but looking at the recent disasters in New Orléans and Haiti it is obvious that a bug out bag and get out of dodge strategy are not only needed but required for anyone who is prepared.
A few days ago we talked about bugging out with children and several months ago, I went into detail about my bug out bag contents.
When reading such lists it is important to keep in mind that any list is only a suggestion. Everyone should look at their skills, situation, security monitoring , and location and then plan accordingly. In most cases you are better off bugging in not out.
No two bug out strategies will be the same, nor will the contents of the bug out bag. Your bug out bag should be put together with your personal situation and needs in mind – only then will it will be effective.
Today we will take a quick look at choosing guns for the bug out bag. Anytime, I mention firearms or survival guns I get flooded with comments from readers giving their suggestions and advice.
I hope this post will elicit such a response. If you have suggestions or questions, by all means feel free to post them in the comments below. Please keep in mind that we are only discussing the head for the hills concept, and not the other possibilities available to the survivor.
Most will suggest a .22 caliber rifle and often this is a prudent choice. A .22 caliber rifle can take small game as well as larger game such as deer with proper shot placement.
For foraging purposes, firearms such as the Remington International 410 Ga/22 LR Over & Under are difficult to beat.
With the addition of the 410 Ga shotgun being a significant advantage over having just to 22 LR. ammunition is cheap and lightweight when compared to other rounds and packing several thousand rounds in a bug-out bag isn’t out of the question.
Another advantage is relatively low report especially when using CB caps and the ability to be effectively silenced with a homemade sound suppressor.
Just remembered that such a device is illegal without proper government approval and will land you behind bars if caught, and is suggested here for a worst case scenario only.
The downside of the .22 Long rifle round is limited range, penetration and stopping power when used in a self-defense mode.
I suggest a backup handgun chambered for a cartridge suitable for self-defense . I would not go below a 9 mm or 38 special here. Anything less powerful isn’t enough.
Even with a 9 mm and 38 special, I would seriously consider using only the + P rounds such as the 115 or 124 grain JHP +P in the 9 mm or 158-grain lead semi-wadcutter hollow point .38 Special +P for defensive purposes .
Your location would also determine weapons choice. For example those bugging-out in grizzly country should definitely consider something more powerful than the aforementioned 9 mm or 38 special.
My first choice for protection against such large game would be a center fire rifle chambered for 30.06 or larger. My second choice would be a magnum revolver with a 5.5″ to 7.5″ barrel chambered for .44 Magnum or larger.
I think it is wise to avoid any armed confrontation if possible. Trust me you are not a coward if you avoid the possibility of being shot in the head. You are not expendable – neither are the lives of your family or those in your bug out group. Those with the macho kill ‘em all attitude will not last very long.
With that being said, a semi-auto military type rifle could be considered especially if you are trying to get from an urban area to the country, where facing organized gangs or other threats attempting to block your exit could be a possibility.
An AR-15 with collapsible buttstock or folding stocked AK-74 could help get you out of a dangerous situation.
What are your thoughts or choices for bug-out firearms? We would love to hear your thoughts in the comments below…
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hey MD, I agree with the choice of a 22 for most survival situations. definitely good for taking small game. if you have nothing else its better than nothing for self defense, it does kill thats why the mob uses them for hits. I would say for a shotgun that something in a 20 or 12 gauge would be better than a 410. reason being availability of ammo and can be used for more than birds. slugs and buck for deer sized animals as well as the 2 legged varmints. shot for most birds. Love the choice of M4 or Ak. I am not a fan of the AK but ammo is cheap and available as is 5.56. Both would work well asself defense weapons or for taking most medium game. For pistol stick with things you can get ammo for easily, 9mm, 357/38, 45 acp, 40SW are all good choices and will stop most any predator, 2 or 4 legged
Every situation calls for a different tool. So, like needing different pots/pans for cooking, different weapons for various purposes. You can however have just one pan to boil/fry. Using that comparison, a .22 caliber is the universal pan. With a experienced operator/bullet placement this caliber is capable of close encounters and distances of over 100 yards. Check out the new Ruger tactical 10-22. No, I do not work for them. They just make a reliable product that has been tried and proven.
12GA shotgun with buckshot is far cheaper than AR/AK plus ammo is more plentiful. Despite the ammo shortage I have yet to see Walmart or any other place that sells ammo run out of 12 GA shells.
For a bug out handgun the Kel-Tec PMR-30 should be considered. It was reviewed under Guns in the survival topics. It has a 30 round clip capacity so with 2 extra clips one could carry almost 100 rounds with them. I am also on board with the 22 over 410 long gun. Using rifled slugs in the 410 would give you the power of a 357 with the added use of a shotgun. If you choose the 22 over 410 just remember to add sling swivels and a sling for easy carrying.
IF I HAD TO BUGOUT OUT MY WEAPONS OF CHOOSE ARE THE RUGER 10/22,TARSUS 9MM AND MY S/W 44 MAG.THIS SHOULD COVER MY BACKSIDE UNTIL I GET OUT OF HARMS WAY.FROM JAY IN NC
re:
"An AR-15 with collapsible buttstock or folding stocked AK could help get you out of a dangerous situation."
I will pass on the collapsible/folding stock. (from former experience 11BP) You need that "fixed" stock to help absorb.
Good post. Thank you.
DW
DW,
I suggested the AR-15 with collapsible buttstock or folding stocked AK for maneuverability inside a vehicle which will likely be the method transportation for most survivors trying to escape the dangers of the city.
I suggest the Taurus Judge 3" chambered handgun with rail-mounted light: loaded with 410 shells and 45LC. It's light, can be used as a flashlight, can shoot small game and can be used as a defense weapon, and fits nicely into a bag.
Ruger 10/22
.22 MiniMag
S/W 9mm
Taurus Tracker .357 w/ 180 gr Hydrashok
Works for me.
Depends on what we're talkin about.If i was actually expecting armed confrontaion or mainly just feeding myself.If alone and expecting to confront othrs my mini-14,9mm with corbons+p+and if others in my group10-22,and rossi matched pair 12ga-.223.
My group consists of 3 person, my wife, a friend the army and myself.
.22LR and .40 Sprinfield XD for my wife
12g, AR15, and .40SXD for my friend
12g, MN91, and .40SXD for myself
both 12g have Knoxx breaching stocks, which makes them usable by just about any one.
The key to making the bug-out strategy work without becoming just another refugee is having a plan (as well as skills and knowledge) and having the details of where you're going to go and how you're going to get there worked out in advance. And it's a good idea to have back-up options if the situation merits changing that plan.
I totally agree with avoiding armed confrontation at all cost, but if I were expecting it I would want my compact AK with the side-folder stock or a collapsible-stock AR. But for hunting and survival I'll take a .22 rifle and a .357 Magnum revolver, adding a short .357 Magnum lever carbine if possible. In grizzly country I would change this combo of revolver and carbine to .44 Magnum or .454 Casull.
Me – Ruger Mini-14 .223 & Glock 19 9mm
Wife – Mossberg 20 gauge & Glock 19 9mm
Child – Ruger 10/22 & Taurus 94 22 revolver
For the "why" to bugout you mentioned Katrina and the Haiti earthquake, the Australian fire last February was a GREAT reason to bug out.
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/wildfires/2009-02-07-australia-fire_N.htm
Scott,
I agree with having a plan and a place to go to avoid becoming a refugee.
"Please keep in mind that we are discussing the head for the hills concept here and not the other possibilities available to the survivor."
I'm a huge fan of the Kel-tech SU16C, shoots a 5.56 or .223 round and can fit standard m4 mags. folding stock makes it a great backpack gun! Check it out…
If you analyze this to the Nth degree, there are several things that I personally would take into account. First and foremost, I want to make sure the calibers/chamberings I selected were capable of doing their job. The very nature of a bug out situation dictates that things are so bad in the population centers I'm just making a last ditch effort to survive. (Unless your heading for a retreat of some sort) This typically would also indicate as I'm leaving civilization, I'm headed for a isolation be it teh woods, desert, whatever you have in your area of the country. If I live in Utah, I dont hesitate to pack a 9mm and 223 because they are perfecty sufficient for both people and any wildlife in Utah. Now if I'm headed for the wilderness of Montana, there is no way I'm packing calibers that small. You shoot a moose or a grizzly with a 9mm and tell me how that works for ya. The next thing I take into consideration is making sure that everything I bring is servicable by others in my group. Whereas as I as a large man would be perfectly comfortable bringing a semi auto .308, my very small wife would have great difficulties operating it effectively. And as cost is not truly a factor in a bug out situation other than initial expense buying the ammo, my final decision would be based on availablity of ammo. I don't mean whether they have it at Wal Mart regularly, I mean what I would be most like to come across in the future. It makes so much more sense to me to take a caliber that most people in the country have like .223, .308, 30.06 in rifle chamberings and either 9mm or .45 in pistol. Furthermore, it would be prudent to select calibers that were ALSO military calibers to give your self the absolute best chance of finding more ammo down the road to replenish your stock for your weapons. For this reason, my selection for guns and calibers in my particular location (mountain west) are as follows:
1. AR 15 chambered in 223/5.56 loaded with 75 grain TAP ammo. (My wife would be fine with the recoil of this gun)
2. Remington 700 chambered in 308 (7.62) with a 3-9 scope.
3. Glock 17 (9 mm) Again, its effective for where I live, my wife can shoot it comfortably, and also a military caliber. Loaded with Critical Defense
4. And lastly a Ruger 10/22. I cant say enough about this gun. If you dont have one, you need one. For the price its a steal. Wood grain and blue for $179.
Now this might be closer to the yuppie defense arsenal for some of your taste but I dont see it that way. If you keep your eyes on the paper, you can frequently find people who are willing to sell used guns pretty cheap, especially now that people are hurting and need the money. Besides, your arsenal is basically your life line in a bug out situation. Buy good quality weapons, with good quality ammo. It really might be a difference between life and death.
A very timely topic – my brother and I have been discussing this for awhile. My bug out guns are;
- SKS with folding stock (me)
- CZ75B 9mm (me)
- Marlin Model 60 .22 (wife)
- Beretta U22 Neos .22 (wife)
Sometime this year I’ll go from an SKS to an AR, but am waiting (and saving, a lot) for the SIG516 to come out.
I agree it’s ideal not to have a bug out bag as part of your base plan. If we lived in a rural area it probably wouldn’t be, but we live in the DC metro area and it’s an absolute necessity. In our case we have a place to go to – it’s just 1,250 miles away. Fully ready bug out bags will be on the front seat ready to go on the drive there.
As far as survival arms in general, my family has come up with our standard firearms and we’re slowly acquiring them;
Hi power rifles: Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R. Hard to beat the price of the rifle (sub $100) and the ammo in bulk (though usually corrosive, so clean early and often). Add a scope and you’ve got an excellent weapon.
Main battle rifle: Currently SKS, re-arming to SIG516 when they come out (but keeping the SKSs around, of course)
Shotguns: Remington 870 Express. Simple and dependable.
.22 Rifles: Marlin Model 60. You can trick out a 10/22, but for half the price right out of the box the Model 60 will out shoot the Ruger, or so I’ve read in half a dozen or so forums.
Main pistol: 9mm – haven’t standardized on make and model yet. We’re also kicking around the idea of getting several Takarov pistols (in addition to the 9mm) in 7.62×25 that are said to have stopping power comparable to a .45. But Takarovs cost just over $200 each and the ammo cost about half as much as 9mm in bulk.
No standard .22 pistol. I don’t care for the looks of the Neos, and it’s grip is too small for me, but it’s not for me, it’s for her. And it’s cheap and accurate, extra mags are $10, and it has built in rails should I ever want to add a scope.
Said already….every situation may require a different set up. With that said – you have to equip yourself with as diverse a set up as possible to work in as many situations as possible.
So – my thoughts:
Take what you are comfotable with.
Pretty simple.
If you carry a S&W M&P9 daily and are comfotable with it – then bring it with you when you "bug out".
If you feel protected with your 12 gauge Mossberg – load it up and bring it along.
Winchester 94 lever-action ready at your side? Take it.
You have to really look at what you are preparing for. It is going to be very difficult to find just one all purpose firearm for all situations. I believe it will take a couple to serve most purposes. So – any number of combinations could work depending upon the event at hand.
Hurricane Evac: defensive pistol/defensive long gun-shotgun
Wilderness Excursion: .22LR pistol-rifle/larger caliber rifle for hunting
Alien Invasion (aliens not so nice): phase plasma rifle in the 40 watt range should take care of it
Total Breakdown/Hostile Everywhere: Assualt Rifle w/lots of mags forr each member of the party
Anyways – a few thoughts. A post like this could go on and one and on……
Take care –
Rourke
WorldInfoCD.com
fairly recently, I've sold off all my guns.
the economy being as it is. so the only remaining "gun" I have left is a cheap chinese pellet rifle.
That goes inside the bag. My main bow and quiver ride the outside of the bag. My plan has always included the worst case scenario. Which would consist at the very worst a trek out on foot. The bag system I use is modular and is based like this: Foot trek, Bicycle trek, motorcycle trek, motor vehicle, and lastly motor vehicle and trailer. The latter being a best case bugout scenario.
Unless finances improve drastically, I'm not considering any firearms for purchase. Gotta grin when I say this. PAW I'm pretty sure some dumba$$ will be armed and try to take this longhairs topknot. That individual is my source, whomever he maybe. In the worst case, enemies are a source of supply. sad fact, but true.
Sorry, you’ll be one of the first on the menu!!!
Yeahs gotta haves a getter gun of some significance, bubba or you’re toast!!!!
A getter gun is in keeping with your last stated sentence.
From a well hidden position, from a minimum of 600 yds. you converse with your spotter; … bubba that looks like a weapon we need for our next upcoming event. Spotter, Yep it sure does.
BANG!!! You to the spotter; … bubba, we’ll wait till sunset for retrieval. In the mean time I’ll flip yeah to see who goes to getter!!
I think that guns should be like your food stores. Plan to bug out with what you use. The three or four that I would grab and run with would be
HK USP 45. because I have been shooting it for more than 10 years
Remington 870 w/ both barrels because I hunt with it
Remington 700 .308 because I hunt with it
Ruger 10/22 because I have been shooting it for most of my life
I put them in the order that I would take them. The .45 is first because it is what I might need to get where I am going. The 870 can get me all sizes of game and double for defense out to 100ish yards. The 700 for food. The 10/22 for food.
I have other guns and they are fun to shoot but these are the one I know. I don't PLAN to leave any but stuff happens.
There are some that I ruled out.
Remington 742 30.06 I hunted with this gun for a long time and it works great. However, over time the bolt digs into the rails when the bolt locks back, over time it will stop working. If I had switched to 7400 mags it might not have happened…
Benelli M2 12ga ghost ring tactical This is a great gun! great slug gun I have a lot of trouble hitting pigeons with it. The sights take up too much room. I think that I would have the same problem with birds.
Winchester mod 94 30-30 This is another great gun, but it is more than 60 years old and I can't seem to hit crap with it.
HK45 this will someday replace the usp 45 a couple thousand more rounds and I will trust it.
Glock 17 It is a 9mm and I have a perfectly good 45. Also Glocks do not point well for me.
AR-15 I would hate to leave it, in fact I listed it at first but switched it out for the 870. There an not many places that I can see more than 100 yards and for defense I think that a 1oz slug would say stop faster than a .223.
If you have a place to go it would be best to store some guns where you are going. Such is the fate of the Remington 742. Which still works fine and if I had to make it last I would just load it single shot.
M.D. the 30.06 is the perfect big bear rifle. I have used it for grizzly and moose and it works well for large game. A .308 would work well depending on area.
I am not sure how you feel about over/unders, but I personally like the savage .22/410. Is it isn't too heave and you can kill fowl just as well as you can kill small game.
I am also looking for other over/unders, and even they are coming back in popular demand, they are still not easy to come by. Recently I saw a 30.30/20… very nice but the guy wanted a arm, leg and tub.
upinak
Thinking on this a bit and trying to follow through on ease, I would recommend combining pistol and rifle of the same caliber. It is best to plan for highest reliability as well.
My suggestion would be to go old-school. Pick a hardy revolver in .38/.357 with 6" barrel. On this I would suggest pairing with a modern lever action trail rifle in .357 as well. Same caliber makes for one type of ammunition, with the proper bullet selection, the round is sufficient for any animal in N. America.
Anyone that has suggested that a .22 LR is sufficient to hunt game is either referring to squirrels/wood chucks or has not actually hunted larger game in N. America. There are stories of .22 LR taking down a bear, but this is by far the exception rather than the rule. Also, the range of .22 LR is very short – bullet starts dropping after around 50M (and fast).
My observation of the head for the hills strategy is that in California the hills area already well populated with people who don't want too many visitors. I could try to go up to a shooter friend in the nearby hills with a large ammo cache and more. My .22 of choice is a .223/5.56 with the collapsible stock – there's not recoil to absorb anyhow and the heavy barrel makes a dandy head-knocker. Sidearm is a .45, my wife has a .38 spl.
Md…MD…MD…tsk tsk tsk… How many times do I have to tell everyone there's only one weapon for a total SHTF scenario when we have to head for the hills?
Begin with whatever firearm you desire- a 10-22 isn't going to stop a griz, and probably only a few wimpy men, just piss it/them off… ditto with a .223… so minimum is going to be a .44 mag at CQB… and much bigger at distance.
I get a real chuckle from these he-man Hulks who're gonna carry half a dozen calibers and ammo for each- even if they keep it hidden in swamp and forest glenn- would that I was ever so manly as to be capable of that. I seriously doubt that any who advocate such has ever made attempt to carry their suggested loads!
Now, let's get to some nitty gritty… if you're smart (which I ain't), you'll carry no less than a .50 caliber black powder- most likely a flintlock version of a Hawken. With this you can re-use the expended lead (carefully removed from said carcass) to make another bullet, as well as manufacture your own B-P from available materials. Chip a flint off any spark-striking boulder around you.
But if you're really smart (which I ain't), you are going to have a good take-down bow, or two, and a few strings plus a quiver with no less than two dozen (for openers) arrows. While you're out there, you're going to learn a skill you should'a learned when "times wuz gud": making your own self-bow, arrows, arrowheads and strings. True: a bow won't stop a griz as quickly as a 30-06 or .444 Marlin, and especially a .50 BMG. But one thing the bow has going for it no rifle or sidearm has: millennia of practical use, ease of manufacture and re-usable ammunition.
True: a bow takes more practice to learn and is impossible to use one-handed… but we're hiding in the mountains/woods/swamps/deserts and doing our absolute best to stay away from anything remotely resembling a human outside our group.
So, I guess, I have to concurr with Dragon: a bow is the only true "total shit hit the fan weapon".
God bless, keep your fletching and strings dry.
As for me, I'll be carrying a .357 rifle/pistol combo till the ammo runs out, then string the Bear T-D.
Shy III
Now, if I HAVE to choose only a firearm, I'd go with what's already in the gun cabinet. Don't wait for that "perfect" weapon to come on the market: get GOOD with what you already own, have plenty of ammo for it and PRACTICE as often as you can- imagine a scenario as bizarre as can be and work out the problems in how you handle it.
As to .22 pistols- there are two recommended by the U.S. Survival Response Teams: the Ruger MK series and Smith and Wesson 22A series. The most affordable and reliable, accurate and best functioning of the .22 market, bar none. And I mean NONE. (People will argue all the 'stories they've heard' of these pistols, but the majority are hear-say and none factual.)
If you're waiting to buy the 'ultimate AR/sniper system yet to be', you're wasting time, money and your life. These Yuppie systems are fine for those with tons of moolah to blow, but an SKS or Savage bolt action- or Ruger M-77 or Remington 700 series or Winchester Model 70- will more than fill the bill for any "long range" shooting. A lever action 30-30 is a fine compromise between an AR/AK type and a bolt action for CQB and large game to black bear size, questionable for griz- but how many will there be to attack you/us?
And this is what we're discussing: not some CQB assault team scenario where we have to defend our backpacks. (And if we're heading for the hills, we sure as hell ain't carrying everything and don't have it 'stored' in holes in the ground.)
As to pistols: if you 'need' a semi auto, for the price and quality, the Springfield XD or Glock cannot be beat. Again, this is bar-none. They're available in any pistol caliber you want except 38 Super and who cares about that one? For reliability, they'll outlast any super-modified souped-up hot rod of a .45 every day of the week.
Shotguns? Forget about it. Sole use, and questionable about that, is CQB. You'll never- I repeat: NEVER- carry enough ammo for it to supply even a month long survival situation when what you eat is what you shoot. But if I absolutely had to have a shotgun, I'd go for a 12 gauge double barrel (side-by-side or over-under) due to fewer moving parts to go bad, and a pump as second choice.
God bless… more to follow.
Shy III
I think it is a bit simplistic to say the only reason people bug out is because the heavily urban area they are in has gone all Mad Max. For every person who flees a riot or whatnot there are hundreds who leave because of a hurricane or imminent volcano eruption or whatnot.
It depends on where you are leaving, why and how.
If you are leaving someplace by vehicle then tossing a .22 rifle a shotgun and a rifle in and having a pistol on you is easy. If things were anything less then Mad Max you wouldn't get out of most major urban areas if you started walking with a rifle hanging from your shoulder.
Also it depends a lot on what you are doing when you get to wherever you are going. If you are going to Uncle Bob's in KY to ride out a hurricane hunting isn't an issue but if you are going to his place because the world has ended it likely is.
Personally as a generic answer I would want the same defensive weapons I like anyway:
Glock 9mm
Remington 870
AR/M4
Ruger 10/22
If I was concerned about hunting I would toss in a 30-30 or a 30.06. Also for those who live in un free states and would thus need to have their weapons hidden in the vehicle a little pistol like a .22 Beretta or a KelTech P3AT could have a role.
If I lived in a more rural area, a.22 rifle would work. But I live in an urban area. So the only varmints I cold hunt work be stray cats & dogs.
So for the bug out bag I have a choice of either a Taurus 94 .22 or a Kel Tec P3AT .380.
I don't have a rifle yet, I do have a Mossberg 500 pistol grip 12 gauge & Rossi .38 snub nose.
For the bag as for food it's emergency & energy bars, MRE's.
But I really don't plan to leave my home, I really don't have other place to go.
I agree with theotherryan – "It depends on where you are leaving, why and how."
If you are bugging out to your cabin in the woods and have a vehicle to carry all your stuff, then sure, bring your .22LR for birds; your 12 ga. shotty for deer and CQB; your 9mm handgun for bad guys; your .45 ACP for even bigger bad guys; your .308 rifle for long distance shooting/hunting; your AR-15 or SKS for the army of zombies; and the 100 lbs of ammo it takes to feed them all.
What will you do when your car breaks down, or the roads are blocked and it is faster to walk? Can you carry all of that on your back? Is it concealable? Will people see you walking down the road with a battle rifle? Will the cops or the Guard stop you? Arrest you? Confiscate your weapon(s)? Are your weapons easily concealable should you have to pass through roadblocks, checkpoints or urban areas on foot?
There certainly is no single answer. It depends upon where you are leaving from, going to and all that is in between. For me, I have a few weapons and ammo at our retreat place. We will bring an entire arsenal in the car, but if we have to ditch the car, we each will have a concealable handgun and a packable carbine in handgun caliber. For us it is a Glock 17 & Kel-Tek Sub2000 combo. Both are concealable in our packs, use the same ammo & mags and can be ready to fire in seconds.
We have a few bridges & tunnels in our path to the retreat. These are great places for roadblocks and checkpoints. In the car your should be fine, but on foot you don't want to attract the attention of the local police or Guard who are *GUARANTEED* be there to keep us all in line. If you are expecting some kind of gay Patriots fantasy, keep doing what your doing. It will be one less mouth to feed soon enough.
About bears: I knew an old trapper named Ernest Wilkinson who would kill bears with a .22 revolver. He would distract the bear by throwing a rock in another direction and when the bear turned in that direction he'd put a .22 bullet behind the ear into the bears brain (though he did have the advantage of the bear being in a trap). Your team should have a set of Battle Drills on what each member should do in certain circumstances. If you are going to be in bear country, you should have a Bear Battle Drill that includes actions to take out the bear with the weapons you have. It is not necessary to carry a .44 mag or a .50 cal just because your team is in bear country. Knowledge is the greatest weapon – learn and practice now.
FlatSix,
I agree carrying 20 guns and ammo on your back isn't realistic. The post wasn't meant to tell you what or how many to carry but to present ideas and considerations when making those choices.
If you wait until things are bad enough that National Guard units are setting up road blocks – you've probably waited to long.
I think you should consider adding a 22 caliber handgun to your pack for versatility and small game. The rifle / pistol combo using the same ammo and mags has it's advantages but it also lacks the versatility, range and penetration afforded by a handgun and rifle chamber for a rifle round such as .223 or 308.
Also it's best to avoid traveling established roads if possible to minimize rick, especially if you are traveling on foot.
The most important self defense tool is people avoidance skills. This is not for a weekend of camping, this is SHTF. likely to last many months or even years.
It’s very popular to assume we will get ammo from those that fall, but they had that plan too. Just about everyone will be out of ammo way to soon. Wisdom is to plan that the ammo you carry is all you’re ever gonna have.
That narrows things down to the 22LR pretty quick. What other caliber can you carry a couple of thousand rounds? No, I wouldn’t want to take on any bear with it either. But this is your bug-out kit, not all your preps. We need to take what is most likely to be the most useful in this scenario. We cannot take even one 5-gallon bucket of wheat, let alone multiple rifles and enough ammo for them to get us through SHTF. I think it would be better to pack some spare parts, mags and cleaning supplies for your trusty 22 than another firearm.
The British SAS’ weapon of choice for behind-enemy-lines-skulking is a SS Ruger 22 pistol with a 10” barrel. That is something to think about. Long term getting by.
Hooyaah,
You’ve got the message. Just add one 30-06 rifle fitted with a Leupold 1.5×5 power scope with an illuminated reticle and you’re good to go. Make the strongest dude in your group hump it. Team him up with the best marksman. Waw la, instant getter team. It’ll get yeah any other weapon yeah need.
I think the planning for bugging out and your bug out bag should be based that eventually you will be on foot. Vehicle break downs, road blocks, no fuel & raiders should all be anticipated. Therefore the bulk of your BOG will be filled with food, water, some clothing, and survival equipment. There may not be much room left to carry "extra ammo" especially for several different calibers. My choices are;
1. Ruger 22 pistol. (light weight and can do anything the 22 rifle can do)
2. AR style rifle in 223 cal. (with as many loaded magazines that I could carry in a vest)
3. A short barreled bolt action, scoped 308 that can be slung or carried in the BOG.
4. A high capacity semi-auto pistol in 9mm or 45.
(for close in self defence)
I would stick with common military calibers that would be readlily available.
M.D. – In my bug-out/get-back-home backpack I keep a folded Keltec SU-16B with 2-10 round mags in stock plus 4-30 round mags plus cleaning gear and parts. I thought about adding a pistol but since I have a CWP I am always carrying something. Is it a perfect solution? No. But its always there and always ready to be used. Anything else I might be able to take with me if I have to "grab and go" will just be a plus.
Regards
I have read several posts that had a .22 rifle and an AR/M-4 listed. I would suggest getting the conversion bolt for .22 cal. it comes with a Magazine and saves you the trouble of humping that additional long gun. Swap out the bolt and mag. and you have your .22 swap them back 5.56.
Personally, I don't really plan to bug out. I do have a bag in case I absolutely HAVE to, but I've spent to much time and money storing food and water just to leave it all behind. Besides, getting out of town with a family is going to be a pretty risky move. I think your chances of getting ambushed are far higher than having to defend your home more than a couple of times. And why walk into a trap, if confrontation is inevitable, make it come to you, on your terms.
Luckily I bought all my hardware awhile back when it was cheaper.
Ar-15, SKS, Scoped 30-06, Scoped .22, .44 mag lever action carbine, remington 870 12 ga. .38 snub, and a S&W .357, and what I think should be enough ammo.
Obviously I couldn't take all this with me if I was walkin', that's why I'm stayin'. Besides, if everyone heads for the country, pretty soon things out there won't be all warm and fuzzy. I have enough food and water for about 6-8 months, if I have to leave after that, the I guess I have to put together a good plan. Good Luck To All……..
My wife, son (a toddler), and I live on the east coast, so in a real SHTF situation, we are heading to my parents farm in Nebraska. We’ll go in one of our 4WD vehicles, loaded to the gills, with food/water/ammo/fuel/etc. If we ever have to abandon that vehicle and cannot travel in another – then and only then does the B.O.B. come into play. My wife would have to carry our son in one of those backpack-type baby carriers. I’d carry everything else. I’d be a desperate situation.
Looks like it’s been mentioned several times above, but for a bug out situation I don’t see taking as many firearms as some are listing; a pistol and a long gun each is all that would be practical for us to carry. Why? Weight.
I have a CFP-90 backpack that can haul upwards of 90 pounds, but I don’t want to carry that much and couldn’t move well if I did. When choosing what goes into the bag, I get concerned with ounces, not pounds. (BTW, two emergency foods I keep in it are peanut butter and canned corned beef – a great calories to weight ratio)
If it’s to the point where we really need to hoof it, there is no way we could take more, and maybe not even what I listed above (me: SKS / CZ75B 9mm; wife: Marlin 60 .22 / Neos .22). All my other guns are at my parents home.
As several have also noted, where you are and where you plan to go should be considered, along with what you feel comfortable with. For the vast majority of us it’s probably unreasonable to expect we’ll need to kill a bear – the animal we need to worry about is man.
With that in context, a semi-auto rifle, commonly and incorrectly called an “assault rifle,” which is by definition a selective fire weapon.
I wouldn’t call a good AR a yuppie type gun or too low-powered to get the job done (this is demonstrably not correct). I have an SKS, but there are several advantages to the AR. Two very important ones are that it’s lighter and the ammo is lighter (also two of the reasons the U.S. military moved away from the M-14 in .308).
For the type of animal I’m concerned about, I want to be able to shoot quickly and carry enough ammo, keeping in mind that weight is at a premium.
Some of the hunting rifles mentioned are fine for that, but carrying several hundred rounds would be out of the question for most.
I’ve thought out the most likely scenarios were my family would need to G.O.O.D. and what we’d carry. An SKS or AR for me in case I have to engage that animal I’m concerned about, and I sure hope that doesn't come to pass. Contrary to what some have said, getting shot with a .22 is no joke if the shooter can aim, so my wife’s rifle could serve a bit there, too.
When not worrying about shootouts, I’d want something that could be used to shoot dinner; rabbits, squirrel, etc. The .22 rifle, and maybe the pistol, are perfect for that, and lugging 500+ rounds is doable.
A note on Ruger Mk pistols – I purchased a new Ruger MKIII Standard. Beautiful. But it absolutely required a MALLET to take down and reassemble = impossible to field strip w/o it. So I went to with the Neos, which can be field stripped in ~30 seconds, and fits my wife’s hand better anyway. I hear the Rugers do get easier over time.
The reason the military moved away from the M-14 was, they were forced to do so by the Sec. of Defense. The US Army( The main approving authority for all small arms in the US military) was all for retaining that weapn system. That’s a fact! Check it out.
The M-16 was a piece of crap back then, and it still is to this day. It’s just a spiffyed up piece of crap now, that looks “cool.”
Ask any person who’s been to the sandbox which system they’d rather have. If they’re real trigger pullers, they’ tell you, M14!!!
The M-14 will put the enemies genitals in the dirt, while the M-4 will leave you holding your genitals!
I dunno boys. I would think a 22 rifle break down in bag with a .308 in the hand with 2 – 3 pistols backed up with some edged weapons should be pretty good. Course if you really want to get out of dodge when the indians are around naked and a knife would be best.
I've got 10-22's but when I was a kid I used a remington rifle that split at the receiver. I've seem that at shows for 300 and they shot all 22 shells. Browing makes one too. Wonderful action. Taken down in a sock in the bag with a brick or 22 long rifle and the 22 long caps would be a good backup.
Bows are good, but unless you have hundreds of them raining death from a distance, they are effective out to 40 yards. And silence is a realtive term. Cross bows are worse. I can hear one of those go at over 100 yards.
The other thing is stats on shooters. In a squad sized unit in combat less than 10% of the unit actual are effective in a fire fight.
The other thing is that when it hits the fan, you will be as far out of place as possible. Most likely with what you have in your pockets. Its is great to plan and supplies are the secert to long term success, if you can't use everything you have effectively it is a waste of space.
YMMV
As a Master Gunsmith, I handle a lot of firearms. #1 thing to remember is to stick with standard calibers(Cartridges) available almost everywhere. This means, Farm Stores, General & Hardware stores, Feed stores as well as Sporting Goods & WalMarts for example. Often this may be your rural Grocery store also. #2 .22,.38,.45 & 9mm & .223,.308,.30-06,30-30 & .410,20Ga,12Ga are common almost everywhere . #3 Guns I keep are an AR15,12Ga Pump w/slug barrel(Tactical configuration),.410 Pump with a plain barrel(No Vent Rib), A Taurus Judge(.45LC & .410 capable)a .45 1911,an EAA with.45&.22(EAA factory Kit),.38 Snubbie & Baretta Sub compact .22 Auto for the wife. A .22/.410 M6 "Scout"Survival Gun from Springfield Armory. I was lucky to get the M6 case w/ carrying sling. I break it down and pack it away with a sling which I fitted to it. I have a Bolt Rifle,.223,.22 as well as Semi Auto Breakdown .22. Of these, I consider the M6,the AR, the Judge, Shotguns & both .45's(w/.22 Kit)+ The wife's guns as my/Our, Survival guns. Choosing what I can carry if need be would be difficult but others would be stored (Hidden) for later if TSHTF. All guns are shot often & put away clean with ammunition I would want in an emergency. I am proficient with them & all are "shooters" with no problems or kinks. They will shoot anything available. Not a one is picky about ammo.
I also plan on staying in place. Live on a wheat farm and no neighbor for miles.Have 15000 gal water storage sistern and well plenty of food storage wild game and like minded people. I take my chances here.Firearm selections Ruger mini 14 takes alot of abuse (cheaper than ARs and not as sensetive to dirty environments) Ruger 10/22, Benelli 12ga Mossberg 410,Remington Model 91 pump 22 old and reliable. I can readily purchase ammo and magazines and all are reasonably priced.
I did see it mentioned, but if one is thinking of a 38, consider a 357 it will accept both rounds.
I keep a S&W 629 classic in 44mag nearby. The booming report as a deterrent,is an added benefit.
well I don,t know how far or how fast many here plan to bug out, but for a solitary person or a very few people, keeping your visual and sonic signature very low should be a priority, in other words low profile and stealth should be the rule, firefights should be avoided at all costs and any fodd gathering activities should be accomplished as efficiently and low profile as possible too……all this just screams out for a .22 target pistol……the eight to ten inch bull barrels are as capable as most 22 lr rifles within reason and preserve most if not all of the velocity of the 22 lr round…and as some have mentioned you can sure carry a lot more rounds…for other suggestions try not to look like you,re a member of the military or "militia" or that your are too well off….for many good suggestions about the quick and fast lasy ditch "bug out" do multiple searches and research ultra lite camping and hiking…some of the gear is hi-end but with some creativity a lot can be achieved for a lot less cash…..the reason to bug out is to live….for most ..so in keeping w/ that theme….lets be smart, quick, quiet…low signature.
Poor man's takedown.
For a 22 rifle, the Marlin 39 is a nice choice, because you take out that big screw and the thing falls apart in two short pieces — and fits in a much shorter bag.
The Winchester 9422 is similar, except more bits fall out.
For starters you need to consider who will be using what. My wife won't be shooting the redhawk 44mag. She might use the 1911 in a pinch but the 380 bursa really works better for her. My 870 is to heavy for her to shoot even from the hip, but don't get in her way if she has the stogar coach gun double barrel. We both can use the 10/22 and the mini 14 but the henry 44 mag is a bit much for the little lady.
Next you must consider for what you will use the weapons for and can they do double duty. My Henry and the redhawk are both great for big game and both use the same 44 mag ammo. The Henry may not have the range of a 308 battle rifle, but if you are in range it will mess up your day. Both together make a good hunting/patrol combination.
For defense around the house/camp those two shotguns are ideal. Heavy bird shot will deal with most critters 4 or 2 legged. My 1911 and her bursa are easy to use and carry around all the time.
For small game hunting it's hard to beat a 22lr or a 223. They both will ruin your day at good ranges, especially the mini 14 with a good scope mounted on it.
All of these use fairly common ammo that you can stock up even in these lean ammo times. All of these guns are robust and easy to keep clean. I really don't like folding stocks. They are just one more thing to break. It's hard to break a good walnut or composite stock.
Ken
the best thing is to not be in a city ,,,to aready be living out in the woods and be ready ..as for handgun for varmints 2 or 4 legger i will have my 45-70pistol and my 45-70 rifle i hear a lot of people talking about ak ,sks and the m16 well WHY should i carry a weapon and ammo when like in viet nam my emoney will be carring all of that for me if you donot understant that talk to combat vet …One more thing all of the weapons ,ammo and such will not do you any good at all with out knowing what to and being ABLE to kill your emoney NO MATTER WHO OR WHAT THEY are ..If you want to keep yours safe and feed you will have to do stuff that you would never have though you would have to do trust me i was in viet nam …And we did a lot of stuff that most people wounld NEVER have though of during when you need to protect your team ….charlene
I think the .22 or /410 is very practical. The size of the ammunition is far more compact than the larger gauges, and I think the taking of big game is too much work – a lot of meat would be wasted without lots of prep, more than the person bugging out needs. Small game / birds would be easier to deal with.
If big game is definitely wanted, maybe the .22 Hornet chambered M6, discontinued but still found occasionally might be a choice.
First, learn about the rules of engagement before you decide to place a murder weapon in your hands. Imagine, some guy who is scared to death sneaks in and tries to take some of your food to feed himself & family, what do you do, shoot him?
Second, you better get real acquainted with how it would feel to actually take a human life. Watching the victim laying there gasping for air, bleeding profusely & crying for help, all because you were duped into believing that it is your right to kill first. Welcome to years of therapy or excessive drinking.
The probability of being in a true self defense situation requiring deadly force is incredibly remote. Then factor in your realistic ability to carry it through, you would be better off learning how to negotiate & use wit to save you.
This isn't Hollywood…
Your right , this is’nt hollywood ! It’s north america , a far cry from the U.S.A.of old…..but you {pardon me}must be a closed minded individual if you think harm is’nt coming when the SHTF and city gang’s and mob’s
of vicious looter’s break thru your doors ! So ask yourself later , is it wise to depend on wits and negotiation – or those 00 buckshot and JHP
rounds..? There comes a time for extreme prejudice ! Between 1 and 2
million organized gangs ,lickin their chops , while our Police / Military
bug out to protect there families , leaving us to ourselves. It’s a brave new world for sure!
Hollywood Screentest …not far off !!!
This ain”t hollywood bubba, that’s for sure. But when the $hit hits the fan, people of your ilk will be on the menu. When this goes down, there won’t be law and order on which to rely.
As for the victum on the floor, You walk up to him/her and put a 22lr. in their brain and dump the body in a pre dug pit and cover it with lye.
In a survival situation, there are only three type of persons; Screwors, Screwes, and Screwes in waiting!!!!!
Oh, I forgot to tell you, I’m a COP, and I ain’t gonna be out there protecting YOU!!!!
Greetings. There are many ways to harvest small animals, firearm is not needed to do so. in a bug out situation I would take by S&W 916 pump riot shotgun in 12 gauge. 12 gauge is one of the most universal cartridges there are. even the military uses 12 gauge with buckshot. they offer a Molle shotgun holster for riot or trench shotguns that simply hangs on the back or can be connected to modern military molle packs. 12 gauge can take care of anything you may come across that needs that much power. hint. it is one of the favored firearms to hunt polar bears from the air with and wolves. up close and personal there is nothing on this continent that can not be defeated with one. ammo is heavy. but how many shots will you take at dangerous game? if used at dangerous people you then simply take their weapon and ammo and go about your business.
Greetings. Rules of engagement? what rules? it is now accepted American policy to shoot women and children because they might be dangerous or might grow up to be dangerous. in a bug out situation when there is no law there are no rules of engagement for us civilians either. Is this not so? if you get into a street fight and try to fight using Marcus of Queensbury rules you are quickly defeated by someone who does not follow such rules.
greetings. M16 may be sexy and make people drool a lot. but fact is that it is simply a souped up .22 that is only a few grains heavier then a .22 longrifle bullet. for the money they want for the sexy you could buy a lot of sexy off the street for company and it would be a lot warmer and maybe even cover your back.
No, this isn't Hollywood, but the situation described is an extreme one with emphasis on the word "extreme."
Negotiation is handy for when you have the time to make an argument and the other guy is willing to listen to you.
Otherwise, I would suggest keeping a 12-gauge shotgun (preferably a Remington 870) handy as well as any revolver chambered for .38 Special or larger.
As far as rifles go, SKS's are reliable and stripper clips are much easier to carry and are much more plentiful than mags for AK's.
No mention of a the Sub2000 rifle? Folds, convenient, and shares magazines with various handguns so you have extra magazines and the same ammo no matter the loadout.
And as the person above said… be prepared in mind the taking of a life in the defense of yourself or your family. God forbid anyone ever has to do that, but that is a reality.
Anon 10:40 said…
"First, learn about the rules of engagement before you decide to place a murder weapon in your hands."
A. "rules of engagement"? "murder weapon"? WTF liberal book are you reading?
Anon 10:40: "some guy who is scared to death sneaks in and tries to take some of your food to feed himself & family, what do you do, shoot him?"
A: Yes. He's stealing from me and my family and could kill us or cause use to die from starvation.
Anon 10:40: "Watching the victim laying there gasping for air, bleeding profusely & crying for help, all because you were duped into believing that it is your right to kill first. Welcome to years of therapy or excessive drinking."
A: It is my right to kill first – it's called the right of self defense. He will not be gasping for air or bleeding, he'll be dead. There will not be any therapy after SHTF, but hopefully we'll still have whiskey.
Anon 10:40: "The probability of being in a true self defense situation requiring deadly force is incredibly remote. Then factor in your realistic ability to carry it through, you would be better off learning how to negotiate & use wit to save you."
A: There are thousands of instances today of self denfense situations requiring deadly force, just imagine after SHTF! Damn straight I'll be negotiating and using my wits, but I'll still kill a thief dead.
Anon 10:40: "This isn't Hollywood…"
A: Nope, but you are in LaLaLand… After SHTF, someone's going to take everything you have, have their way with your women, and then kill you all. And your liberal pussy ass will be lying there gasping for air, bleeding profusely & crying for help.
"Bug Out Bag" is an interesting idea, and really applies only to the young solo or couple. For someone like me (born pre-WW2), there are only two possibilities; hunker down in place, or load up the car/truck. Either way, what you have is what you use. I have 3 pistols (.22 and 2 9mm), 2 shotguns (12 pump, 20 auto) and 5 rifles (.22 bolt, 10/22, .30 Carbine, Enfield .303, and Garand), with enough ammunition to fight a major battle, or hunt for years, for almost all of them. Should I be forced to leave home, all would go in my truck. If I am forced from my truck, I would take one 9mm pistol, the Garand, and three bandoleers of clips for it. If that's not enough to take back my truck, I probably won't survive anyway.
Jack,
Well said.
Alright, I will play as well.
http://thesigboychronicles.blogspot.com/2010/02/bug-out-firearms.html
ANON,10;40 WHAT HAPPENED TO KNOCKING ON THE DOOR IF THE PERSON WAS REALLY IN NEED?I WOULD GLADLY HELP THIS PERSON IF ITS NOT THREATING TO MY HOME.TO BREAK IN IS TO ESCALATE THE PROBLEM.IF THREATENED WOULD YOU NOT ALSO DEFEND YOURSELF AND FAMILY.FROM JAY IN NC
Thanks for that Jack.
Civilization isn't a suicide pact; This is especially so when the shiny veneer has been worn through to the tooth and claw of survival.
Anyway, it's funny how billions of men, women, and [yes] children in many thousands of societies -outside Hollywood I might add- have been defending themselves from marauding looters, starving grasshoppers, assorted enemies, and dangerous game for several hundred thousand years without any need for 'therapists' whatsoever.
I submit that one would actually have to be batsh*t crazy to not defend their progeny and peers against the depredations of thieves.
Hell even animals still cling to their God given right to defend themselves…That is, at least the ones that haven't yet been bred to be food.
Back on track…
My situation kind of eliminates bugging out by any means short of an expensively equipped sailboat, which is way out of my monetary reach, so 'plan A' is to bug in with a vengeance…With a radio-networked community within quick reaction range (still working on that one).
FWIW my choices for a wilderness bug out (plan B) if the S-really-HTF locally include:
- stainless lever action carbine in .44 mag
- 9mm concealable center-fire semi-auto pistol
- spring piston air rifle in .22
I know I've chosen two different calibers of firearm ammo to deal with, but I justify it by telling myself that "I'm doubling the odds of acquiring ammo in the future".
Overall toughness, lightness, and brick solid reliability are by necessity my prime directives due to the ruggedness of the various micro-terrains involved. Easy take down for cleaning is also high on the list due to a salt environment.
Anyway, I figure bush-craft and a lifetime's knowledge of the local flora and fauna will go a long way toward keeping the belly as full and as safe as can be given the circumstance. I'm in the process of marking out resources on a topo map – right down to which individual trees will bear fruit in which month, as well as where particular food animals move and/or congregate.
Keep up the good work MD. I'm thankful that you have provided this forum. I've found many solutions to problems -many of which would never have occurred to me- through your posts and commenters.
ANON, 10:40…..Sounds to me like you don't have a family to protect. Drinking heavy is just a gimmi, but I really don't see myself loosing any sleep because I had to kill to protect what I cherish most. It also sounds like you won't last very long. I'd be very interested to hear your negotiation strategy with an irrational, hungry animal, who knows the cops ain't coming. Good luck to you anyway…..
Dean in Mich…..
bug out guns? how about a Taurus Judge – .45colt/.410 shotshell? i have a .22 revolver with a 9" barrel that goes along. Ruger Mini-14 in .223/5.56NATO. last, a Springfield Armory XD45. that should cover it.
struss
This guy has been there – actually lives there.
Argentina has been pretty lawless in recent years.
http://ferfal.blogspot.com/
He says the ideal weapon is a hi-cap 9mm. If you are fighting through a cluster of zombies with your life on the line, the one who can keep the most lead in the air has the best chance of survival.
If you are on foot moving out of town, there is a case for the classic levergun. It's much less intimidating than any of the black rifles. You might be less likely to be accosted carrying a Win 94. 30-30 is still available in rural hardware stores.
Beyond that, keeping in mind that one needs to avoid such confrontations, a .22 and a brick of ammo makes much sense. For me that would be a Marline Papoose takedown rifle, stainless.
2nd choice might be a NAA minimaster pistol.
I've expanded my comment above here;
http://suburbansurvivalist.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/thinking-through-bug-out-bag-firearms/
This subject never gets old.
As has been said, people need to figure out what 'bug-out' means for them. For myself and my wife, I've figured out different levels of need based on different scenarios. I have an emergency kit that rides in the car with me, and has a 9mm semi auto pistol (Springfield XD). If I get stuck somewhere far from home, at least I'm armed. 9mm is common and accessible. It can be concealed. Cops won't freak out about it (they will with your AR/AK/Desert Eagle .50).
If we're evacuating by car, then I can pretty much bring all our guns, and probably would, rather than leave them behind to be stolen or confiscated. For us, the important consideration is to be armed in case of emergency.
Something is better than nothing. Cheap is better than nothing. Get a bunch of $80.00 Mosin-Nagants. Stash 'em around. Do you really want to get to a police checkpoint during an evacuation and have them take your $2000.00 M14 clone? One of my favorite guns is my Marlin 1894 carbine in .357 magnum. People love it, it's a cowboy gun. It’s relatively non-threatening, a common caliber, and will kill anything that walks or crawls in my neck of the woods stone dead. I’ve got a Taurus Tracker in the same caliber.
Also, unless you really live out in the boonies, AND you really know what you are doing, you are not going to be doing much subsistence hunting. If you are, then so are the thousands and thousands of other people where you live. Which means the local fauna will be picked clean in about a week. It is much more likely that you are going to be standing in line to get food with a bunch of other very hungry, very tired, and very pissed off people. Who may also be very scared and very desperate. At that point, I’d rather have pistol under my coat than a .338 Lapua Magnum stashed in my mountain redoubt. Just my .02 cents.
With all the ships lined up to turn Iran into toast, and China and Russia t'd off at the U.S., all of our cities may become "bug out" scenes.
Have to agree with all you but the bow fan. Is he even close to serious? All of the other firearms mentioned are worthy. I like the .22 target pistol idea most of all. Have the Ruger MK series target .22 and it is a safe queen. Never have been able to clean it! The Beretta Neos 6" model is one choice but the my ultimate
B.O.B firearm is the FN 5-7 with 30 rd extension, laser set-up, tritium sights, with Elite Ammo – especially the Raptor line or Varmint line. Good out to 200 yds. including taking out unwelcome visitors with LvIIIa vests.
One gun only. Must be the FN 5-7, 20 rds /mag, long range and short range capable, brick reliabilty, lighter than almost anything out there, and can be tucked discretely into the backpack, while shooting almost like a mid-range rifle.
qed.
It's the old trusty Marlin 30-30 for me. My dad and my granddad carried 'em and they fit good on the horse. It works well for just about anything that needs shooting (smaller game can be trapped and killed with a knife) in North America. Without a scope I'm accurate out to about a 175 yards and I can keep the gun running so long as there are rounds within reach. I'm faster with the lever gun than with a bolt gun and, once your mags are all empty, shoot-one-load-one is pretty awkward with an AR.
Sure I feel more like a he-man firing slugs from the 870 or tossing lead with my Marlin 1895SBL. My Rem 700 is much more accurate at distance and the AR is a lot more intimidating than a "grandpa gun".
But hey, that little ol' lever action 30-30 is my everyday day gun now and is probably the gun I'll reach for in pinch. :)
As has been said, people need to figure out what 'bug-out' means for them. For myself and my wife, I've figured out different levels of need based on different scenarios. I have an emergency kit that rides in the car with me, and has a 9mm semi auto pistol (Springfield XD). If I get stuck somewhere far from home, at least I'm armed. 9mm is common and accessible. It can be concealed. Cops won't freak out about it (they will with your AR/AK/Desert Eagle .50).
If we're evacuating by car, then I can pretty much bring all our guns, and probably would, rather than leave them behind to be stolen or confiscated. For us, the important consideration is to be armed in case of emergency.
Something is better than nothing. Cheap is better than nothing. Get a bunch of $80.00 Mosin-Nagants. Stash 'em around. Do you really want to get to a police checkpoint during an evacuation and have them take your $2000.00 M14 clone? One of my favorite guns is my Marlin 1894 carbine in .357 magnum. People love it, it's a cowboy gun. It’s very non-threatening, a common caliber, and will kill anything that walks or crawls in my neck of the woods stone dead. I’ve got a Taurus Tracker in the same caliber.
Also, unless you really live out in the boonies, AND you really know what you are doing, you are not going to be doing much subsistence hunting. If you are, then so are the thousands and thousands of other people where you live. Which means the local fauna will be picked clean in about a week. It is much more likely that you are going to be standing in line to get food with a bunch of other very hungry, very tired, and very pissed off people. Who may also be very scared and very desperate. At that point, I’d rather have pistol under my coat than a .338 Lapua Magnum stashed in my mountain redoubt. Just my .02 cents
IMHO Barret M-95,and an ACR. Done.
I've already bugged out, really, anyone interested in survival should read as much history of the Resistance in Europe during WWII, as well as the Phillipine resistance against the Japanese as possible, there are a lot of parallels, use firearms that you can ambush convoys and get more of the same calibers will be important, 3006 is probably the most common caliber around, brass will be easy to locate. Look at your bugout area, do you have to make long distance shots to either defeat invasion or get meat, a 22 is best used for elimination of guards and sentinels.
One thought that seems to be evading everyone is that you can use your gun what ever it is,to get a gun more suited for the situation. So one might carry the gun you're most likely to hit with be it a 22LR or a 308. Or possibly a hand gun so you can sneak up on your target. We need to keep our minds open and our grey matter working.
For me Living in Los Angeles and needing to get North, I will run into those criminal gangs. So Fully Modified Car-15, gas piston, flash lights, lasers and lots of bags. Saiga 12 guage, Springfield xd V-10 ported 40 caliber pistol.
I have more supplies in my 4×4 jeep and if that fails, I always have my motorcycle (dirt bike) and bug out bag
Thank you very much for this article, which drew so many informed posts. As a 'beginner' gun owner and CCP holder, I am rather intimidated by the whole area. It is helpful to read everybody's comments. When people post about a particular kind of gun, I look it up. Gradually am increasing my 'book' knowledge, thanks to you all. I do go to the range, but not doing much good yet. Looking for a weekend long firearms training course that's commutable – would rather spend the money on the knowledge than the hotel. So, many thanks to all the posters for their views, and many thanks to Mr. Creekmore for providing the forum.
For me and the wife I have a .22 Rifle, Springfield XD .40, AK-47, SKS and a good, sharp, double edged bootknife. All durable and easy to maintain.
Please consider another rifle in place of the AR-15. The Kel-tec SU-16 is a fold-down carbine chambered in 5.56 (.223) just like the AR. Very accurate and much easier to maintain than the AR. The big reason for this rifle is that ammo is everywhere.
Another great alternative would be to have two weapons chambered in 9mm Parabellum, the most popular ammo size in the world. That would be the Glock 19 pistol and the Kel-tec Sub 2000. The Sub is a fold-down carbine rifle. Then you only carry one ammo.
As most conflict you encounter is going to be within 150 yards of you, don't be concerned with long distance accuracy. Each of these rifles mentioned shoot 1" groups at 150 yards with iron sights.
I live on a farm in rural Oregon state. I have no intention of "bugging out". I will take my chances here, and defend my home and family, as well as the good people of my community. I keep on hand the proverbial Ruger 10/22….several of them. They are the Swiss army knife of fire arms. And if you have spent time with one, and become proficient with it, there's not much you cant do with it. I also keep handy a Springfield M1a in .308, as well as the Korean made Daewoo dr200 in .223. Its a damn good gun, and better than any AR I have ever shot. I keep my HK USP compact .40 close at hand as well as my Ruger SP101 in .357 The SP101 is an amazing hand gun and will take all the +P+ ammo you can throw down it without a hitch. Lets just hope we can make some positive change in our country before we have to resort to this.
Wow, MD. You were just linked off of LewRockwell.com! AWESOME!
I'm a newbie here fellas. I think a Keltec Sub2000 40cal and a Glock 22 or 23 (40 cal)will do for me, both will fit in a backpack or a small case/ and I suggest a 40 cal. just for my level of confidence. They share the same 30 round clip also, for power and convenience. I am thinking about getting a 20 gage shotgun but my 22 pistol doesnt give me much confidence.
I think my post may be too long, so I'll try to break it up.
Perhaps a personal story will help, although I was only a child when our family had to do it (in Luluabourg, the former Belgian Congo, right after independence in 1960 – and I won't cover what happened after that).
First off, don't count on help from the authorities at all, ever. In our case, it was the paramilitary police force ("Force Publique") that mutinied and was trying to kill all the whites in the first place – now that's what I call racial prejudice. Also, even though we were rescued after a three day siege by Belgian paratroops who were still in a close enough base and then did a drop, that was only because their commanding officer had disobeyed his civilian superiors' instructions not to intervene in local matters after independence (unfortunately I was asleep, but my even younger brother saw the drop even though he was too young to remember very much about it).
(continued)
Second, it helps to have a good network for early warning and to call for help. It was only this that allowed the local whites to hole up in a defensible block of flats in time and then get help.
Third, have more and heavier weaponry than people have been describing. We were British and didn't have any at all, which rather surprised the Belgians; they lent my father a pistol to use at his post, that he showed me and my brother whenever he came back from his post (and I gathered later that my mother was saving the last bullets for me and my brother, so to speak). But my own first understanding of how serious everything was came when we arrived at the block of flats and I saw a man on guard with a Sten gun at his hip on a shoulder strap (when my parents had said "we have to leave", I thought they just meant they had to, and I offered to look after my brother). Weaponry needs to be at least that serious, and might even need to be RPGs or mortars; much later, my father told me we were very lucky that the mutineers didn't realise that they could get mortars by breaking into the local armoury (I'm not sure why that was unsuitable for us to hide in).
(continued)
Fourth, even limited amounts of protection help. All of us who were not on the front line had to hide under blankets on an upper floor, to be safe from flying glass – for days, with limited water and in tropical heat. Preparation and supplies of that order are very important.
None of this could do more than buy us time for something to turn up; but it did, so it was worth it. But the best advice for this sort of thing I can think of is the Admiralty advice for ships caught off a lee shore in a gale: "don't be [caught that way]". It's not as though similar incidents haven't been happening somewhere every few years ever since.
12 ga mossburg 6 shell pump persuader. Any shot will do.
If your going to bug out take a sling shot, bow, crossbow, or blowgun as well as a .22 or larger rifle. You will thank me if you have an extended stay.
As former recon (8652) I'll stick with my M14 and 1911 converted to 460 Rowland—good for every encounter, man or animal.
Regarding the Kel-tec. I bought a kel tec once. It mas a "maypop". A real piece of crap. I normally wouldn't post something anecdotal like this, but people reading this forum are talking about life or death reliability, and I would hate for someone to die because I didn't warn them about the Kel tec.
Well, OK. As an Army Veteran and retired Federal Law Officer and NRA Firearms Instructor and owner of more than 40 pistols, rifles and shotguns I can only say what I would take if I had to "Bug Out" in a hurry, traveling lite. In the bag. One .357 Mag Revolver. It shoots .38 Sp as well as snake shot(snakes, birds and small animals, all good to eat)and the .357 and is very reliable. Also my 9mm Glock. And I could not bear to leave behind my 30 cal. M-1 Carbine that my Dad brought home from WWII.
re: "bow" and arrow "Is he even close to serious?" Yes. Quite serious. First thing you do is get yourself a good strong pointed stick.
The longer the better. You will not want to kill most of the threats you encounter. A pointed stick (i.e. the bayonet) is necessary.
Here we observe that the actual firearms selection is an intimate matter of personal choice and experience.
We will then therefore concern ourselves with the sincere singular recommendation that when in Rome…Roman ammunition is what you should kit for.
In Missouri we see huge stockpiles of the following cartridges:
.22 Long Rifle
.38 Special
9mm Parabellum
.45 Auto
.223
7.62×39
.308
20ga
12ga
As always, your mileage may vary!
Starving The Monkeys Continually And Forevermore,
John and Dagny Galt
Atlas Shrugged, Owners Manual For The Universe!(tm)
.
I'll take a plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.
I would suggest as others have a 12 ga shotgun. As well as a AR or AK semi auto.
The 12 gauge will take care of most of your hunting needs especially if you pack a variety of different shots. Slugs and 00 buck are great for large game and closer range self defense. And higher # shot is good for smaller game and birds.
A mossberg 9 shot and a .40 sig sauer work for me. I guess we can compare stories after the sh** hits the fan.
I'm impressed with the overall civility of these posts. Recurrent themes: Ruger 10-22 & Mini 14 & MK pistols, Mossberg 12-20 gauge–all very good weapons. No mention of 22mag–also a good and powerful caliber.
Some will have to bug out, I know, but if you have an option, stay put with your stuff. Realistically, you won't get far if things are really bad, especially if carrying anything heavier than your own skin. And living off the land in many areas of this country is not a possibility unless you like to eat grass.
Too old to move
SKS, Glock 21 (.45), and the Ted Nugent anthology
Ok let us get this straight, considering this is a “bug-out-bag”. I carry a Ruger LCP with a laser sight. Only a .380, however I use Corbon DPX bullets. I know some of you are saying, a laser sigh? That is a crutch. Have you ever used a laser sight. This will make this tiny pistol much more effect, and worth carrying. Listen close to what I am saying. Remember this is a bug out bag, and of course a 9mm would be better, but this is a bug out bag.
http://gurupocketholsters.com/Ruger_LCP_380_Pocket_Wallet_Ho/ruger_lcp_380_pocket_wallet_ho.html
A good rifle, of course, is a must. I also carry a Ruger 10/22. I use the standard CCI LR .22 hollow point. A great bullet and cheap from Wal-Mart. Have you ever seen these bullets penetrate steel and aluminum? Go see for yourself, good stuff.
However for bigger game you cannot go wrong with the best all around bullet of all time. What is this? The .30-06. You can buy these bullets anywhwere in the world. The .30-06 is the best all around bullet ever produced. Don’t believe me, then you better read up.
The new Marlin XL7, is only $300!!! Buy one now!
http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/marlin-xl7-review-1.php
http://gurupocketholsters.com/Ruger_LCP_380_Pocket_Wallet_Ho/ruger_lcp_380_pocket_wallet_ho.html
I like the Tarus "THE Judge" 45/410in a 3"Magnum. With the lenght of the revolver, you are opening up more opportunities for different lenght 410's. You also have the ability to deliver a very potent load from that 45 Long Colt cartriage. Judge, Jury, Exicutioner, all in one package. Sometimes you just need these options.
Glock 9mm, nearly impossible to have a failure or a malfunction with the majority of ammo.
AK47, the MOST dependable weapon you will ever own, don't clean it? No problem. Left it in the lake for 2 weeks and its all rusty? No problem. Bent the barrel? Hammer it back no problem. It never quits. Dead simple to operate and take apart, you could train a child to use one in 10 minutes. No Tools needed unless you break something major.Powerful enough to penetrate cinder blocks. Easily able to use drum type magazines with 90 round capacity. The ammo is fairly easy to find , and especially easy to find outside of N. America.
One Caveat though is that it is not very accurate beyond 100 yards.
The AR is a fine accurate shooter, but it needs to be kept very clean and well maintained to operate effectively. Accurate up to 700 meters or so, if you can even see a person that far away. Good capacity with 45 round magazines available, most are 5.56mm or .223caliber and that ammo is very easy to find. One needs to be aware that they are not the same, if your rifle barrel is marked .223 it is advisable to not use 5.56mm ammo as the increased pressures can cause damage to either the rifle or yourself.
Some posts have good points depending upon their situation & comfort level with weapons. Shoot with what you feel most comfortable & accurately, which also depends upon their local terrain. Every situation is different, depending upon their specific setting. One thing I noticed about some of the posts, is how on earth you are able to pack enough ammo in your BOB, makes me wonder how many people actually have an effective BOB. My 3-5 day BOB with many other additional essentials is very heavy, which requires me to wear a load bearing molle vest for pistols & ammo to distribute the weight. Basically if I carry any weapons with my BOG it’s an AR/M4 with as many loaded 20, 30 & 40 rnd mags I could carry & 2011 SVI High cap .40 cal pistol which also carries 20 rnds each mag, with a browning buck mark .22 pistol perhaps. Carrying the additional weight may not be realistic. Rest of my family shall have AR/M4’s & glock model 22 .40’s with 15 rnd mags. If I was thinking longer term, it would be a large soft pack BOB, rest would be packed with additional food. If I decided to guard my fort, we all have two or three weapons in all major calibers if needed with plenty of food, gear & ammo. All my weapons are tactical related & I practice shooting at least once a week, if not more & can hit my target if intended, within reason of course. I also try & shoot competitions occasionally to stay in practice with rapid fire too. My future brother-in law led battle in Somalia, Afghanistan & Iraq claiming his M4 was his savior, along with his communication for support. All major ammo in .22, 9mm, 40, .45, .223, .308 & 12 gauge may be your most common calibers. Think what the police & military carry? AK47’s are dependable as well. Each to their own, not to offend anyone, shoot your grandfathers single shot if so desired. I know a Russian ex-military who can shoot a makarov pistol so accurately & field strip the pistol blind folded, it’s almost unbelievable. In my case, I may need to clear a path towards the mountains perhaps. I live in the Pacific Northwest whereas most do believe the government will come save you, wrong! Tony
Keltec SU16C-Folding stock takes rifle to 32inches. Short enough to fit into most hiking bags. Gotta conceal. Accepts standard AR15 mags. 2 of these for the price of 1 AR. .223/5.56×45
Remington 870 or Mossberg 500\590. Your pick. Pistol grip with fold over stock. Again for concealment. 12gauge
Glock17/Glock19 9mm
While I think the correct choice of weapons to protect oneself is arbitary to most…A thought has occured to me about the use of said weapons…who will be the enemy and why will we need to flee to safety…simple answer…total breakdown of society with standard reaction from the guvment…martial law now being the new control method…Katrina is the recent example…with hired guns as the enforcers of the law as they see fit…in other words total disrespect of your rights…as then the path will be blocked by these so called law enforcement agents…to blindly think you will be able to proceed along your merry way is not facing the reality of the facts…they will disarm you…so all this talk about caliber and fire power will be useless at best…roving gangs can then do their best to make your life miserable…without much effort as you have been disarmed…with that in mind who will be the enemy…this question might surprise you when you come to the same conclusion I have…one of the possible enemies will be wearing a uniform…and/or have a badge…I for one don't like this answer but it's what I see if things get that bad…hopefully it won't happen… but if it does I am taking my bug out bag into the living room to see if I packed any cashews… because I have already bugged out…I am fully supportive of M D Creekmore and his BLOG preparing others…preparing mentally for hard decisions is difficult at best….just a thought…in what state can you shoot grizzlies…BTW I have seen an elk taken down with a 223 cal…shot placement is everything…
Handguns: SIG Sauer P220 (.45), CZ75B (9mm) and Buckmark camper (.22) with 7.5" barrel.
Rifles: .22LR Savage Anschutz, M1 Garand (30.06) and two Mosin Nagants
Shotgun: Ithaca Featherweight 12ga.
I would take the three pistols first in that order first, if long guns were appropriate would add the Garand, then the Anschutz, then the Mosins: M44 (Hungarian) then the 91-30.
12 ga would be last.
Boston T Party suggests: Springfield M1A (.308) and a Glock in at least .40 cal.
100 comments? All right M.D.!
MTBOB is right – bail out earlier or the uniforms will strip you of every weapon they see. #1 is a concealable defensive strength pistol just in case you bail out too late and you have to ditch all your long guns to get through the checkpoints. My concealables would be a Glock 19 in 9mm and a Ruger .22 revolver with a six inch barrel for small game.
My my.. so many Opinions. Could we think of the weapon and another TOOL? We all pick the ones we feel comfortable with. How many 'safe queens' do you have tucked away because you simply can't shoot the damm thing or you do.. not.. like it. like shoes, cars, mates and diets.. they gotta work for YOU. If they do join an IDPA club and do the 3 gun season till you actually know what to do with the TOOLs you picked… unless you can affford a place like TDIOHIO.com or Gunsight ranch…
My My…so many opinions
your statements about the unused firearms is probably good advice…but these people seem to know a little bit about firearms…however going to an all out combat training school might be over the top for most…they ain't seals or rangers…just a little antsy about the future…all things considered…the scariest person with a gun is the 35 yr old who has never fired a weapon…they are the ones who should attend some sort of safety /training course to become familiar with their new friend…all of my rifles are the same as to actions and same for pistols…so getting one of those queens out is like meeting an old friend…just my opinion
my 2c…stay out of trouble!! If your constantly a type that cant swallow your pride and hide/run, your in trouble. I wouldnt think you would need more than 200 rounds of ammo for self defense, should last yrs!! If not then you are prolly dead, need to avoid fire fights as much as possible.
In this vain a 357/38 revolver(i like Ruger) for self defense(100-200 rounds) and a pump action 22(1k – 2k rounds).
Again, 6 shot revolver should be enough, if not its not self defense but a fire fight or skirmish. Revolvers are tougher, easier to clean and more reliable. 22 for hunting and such.
Many times less is more…. again my 2c is that i would avoid fights at all costs, and if you do shot..shot to kill fast, then move on fast.
Always taking a stand over everything will get you killed fast in a end of world situation. Chaos will reign.
jack is right bout anon10:40 if he's willing to sneak in and take food what else is he willing todo?
bug out weapons of choice
paraord ssp or p-14 covert black 45acp
bushmaster m4
s.o.g seal pup knife and a good boot knife
I’ve got a Springfield m6 in .22 over .410 carried in a voodoo tactical shotgun scabbard attached to the side of my bag. I also have a Ruger single six in .22/.22mag in my bag. These are always in my vehicle. I also have a cwp, so I always have a colt defender .45acp with me also. If I am at home when all hell breaks loose, I’m going to grab my AR as well.
Got to say that I go back for basics:
M1A or M14: Heavy, and large, but weighs less than many kitted up M4 carbines with significantly more power. Will stop deer, elk and just about anything on the North American Continent. Extremely useful in a situation with desperate or threatening humans, as the recent revitalization with the Armed Forces have shown.
M1911: reliable, manstopper, widely available ammunition for scrounging, easy to reload in event that factory ammunition becomes unavailable.
S&W 686: heavy, but 7 shot .357. Goes in the bugout bag in case you can not get to items 1 or 2, along with a speed loader or 3. Stays in the bugout bag until the M1911 breaks or fails. Will probably outlast any survivors.
Awfully hard to carry much more. 3 guns (rifle, shotgun, pistol) get remarkably heavy when carrying all the time…spent a lot of time in uniform and can attest that even a vanilla M16 gets heavy after hiking it around long enough. You’ll need mobility to survive.
PART 1 of Response.
I love the “taking out of sentries” and “CQB” in the woods comments, that was good for belly laugh. Same with guys carry more than three weapons. You don’t have a caddy with a bag full of guns for every situation, you know.
Some of the better advice that was given earlier for being in the woods and trying to keep a low profile is the take- down recurve bow, sling shot or air rifle. Another good thing to consider is on site made traps, cable snares and fishing lines and hooks. None of the above will broadcast for a mile or more that you in the area like firearms will. That and storing other weapons in case yours a confiscated on the way over.
As far as if you “bump” in to the National Guard, and the search your belongings, I don’t care if your weapons are concealed or not, their going to dump the contents of your pack on the ground and go through it with a fine tooth comb. Best thing to do is avoid them at all costs. If your coming up to a area blind or an obvious “choke point” for a road block, you may want to look ahead from a hidden spot first. For they’ll take your weapons and arrest you on the spot.
If your really lucky like me, you find out their not guardsman at all and you walk in to a trap, to be relieved of everything including your foodstuffs. If you try to “shoot it out” with them you defeated the term survival and replaced it with suicide for you and yours.
As far as firearms go I have four long arms that would be up to the task:
A Ruger 10/22 in .22 LR.
Pros: A good reliable weapon that can be configured to your tastes and needs. Can be broken down to take up less space in the ole’ pack if need be. Ammo is very cheap and available every were and relitively light. One can use different loads for different needs, like Subsonic to keep the noise signature down or “Magnumized” to put the hurt on larger game.
Cons: Ammo lots can be unreliable. To much dirt or grit and it’ll choke. If the game gets bigger than a coyote, on can have mixed results on taking down a full size White Tail, a Wild Boar or a hostile Erect Bi-Ped. Sometimes a shot in the butt will come out behind it’s ear killing him instantly or you can dump ten rounds in the boiler room and the BG still kills you.
A Marlin 1894C in .357 Magnum.
Pros: With the right work it can be a very reliable weapon capable of taking all ground game in Ohio. It can shoot .38 Special in addition to .357 Magnum. With a handgun in the same caliber, you can standardize on a standard caliber. You can use light (read low velocity) hand loaded 77GR “Button” wadcutters to take squirrel and rabbit and still have something to eat afterwords, all the way to 180gr bullets for Hog and Small Bear. In practiced hands and with the right sights, it’s deadly against humans up to 500 yards. Can be made more compact by removing the single screw that holds the stock. Overall length can be smaller than alot of evil black rifles with their stocks folded. With reloading equipment the shell casings can be loaded with Black Powder if you run out of modern propellants ( no you won’t get magnum velocities, and yes you’ll still need primers).
Cons: If used in box stock configuration with out some simple but necessary mods, it’s a liability. The ammo can be heavier, and costlier. Takes more time to master long range shooting, Has some some what fragile pieces that you need to plan ahead for just in case. Cast bullets need more lead for the diameter and thus is a little more wasteful of lead on small game like squirrel or rabbit.
Part II to be continued…………………….
Current bug-out gun options:
Varmint/small game: Taurus Mod 62 pump rifle (.22LR) & 100 rounds — possibly my favorite plinker of all time. 12 + 1 rounds, reliable forever.
Carry pistol: Springfield 1911 (.45 ACP) & three 10-round mags — ’nuff said.
Rifle: Mauser M96 (6.5x55mm) & 40 rounds — will do anything I ask of it.
Note the quantities of ammo, which may seem absurdly small to some. Maybe; but I’m pretty sure that any SHTF scenario we’re likely to encounter in the U.S. will be over in a week or so (one way or the other), and it seems silly to have to carry a boatload of ammo which will never be used.
In retrospect, however, if I could rebuild my SHTF arsenal, I’d stick with a rifle/handgun combo in the same caliber (e.g. Marlin lever and S&W revolver in .357 Mag). Yeah, I’d sacrifice range for ammo compatibility, but I’d also be getting a smaller, lighter carbine. I’d still have the Taurus pump rifle, though.
Well so far as of now, if I had to bug out any time soon.I have a Romanian trainer that I would take down.I shortrnd the barrel a couple of inches last summer so it will be a smaller packag.I may sharten it to a 18 inch barrel.My wife has a marlin model 700 that is pretty petite.My son has a mosin nagent rifle to come with us.He also has a tubefed winchester 22 lr.I plan on getting my smith model 617 with a 8 and 3/8 barrel back from my dad.I also have a marlin 60 tubefed that holds 18 rounds in the tube.Spread throughout my family we are ok for the part of n calif that we live in. Steve
Has anyone considered theyre going to be CARRYING all of this crap? lol
For this scenario I have my Kriss Vector carbine and my Glock 21. They both shoot .45 acp and even use the same mags. There a lot of good carbines out there with mags from other well proven platforms.
Added benefits of the Kriss include virtually no recoil, folding stock, integrated surefire light, and 30 rnd mags. Plus its scary looking. :)
I have a 45cal and 9mm handgun that I never leave home without. We also have a Hi-Point 9mm carbine with extra mags and when the 45 cal carbine comes out (fall 2010), will have one of those as well.
As some of the more sane folks have stated, you may end up having to hump alot of this kit. Think about the weight, not just of the weapons, but ammo, magazines…ooops I grabbed the Glock mag when I need to reload my 1911!
Then, add food, water, shelter, clothes, medical supplies, cooking gear etc etc etc.
So, folks please follow the KISS method,
For me,
M1A1 rifle with about a dozen mags. In a shootout, mags empty fast. 100 spare rounds. A good reliable platform for long range with takedown power, accuracy and a decent magazine capacity.
Ruger Mark II with 6 inch barrel. Maybe a homemade wire sholder stock to add stability, so you now have the benefit of what is essentialy a .22 rifle. Three or four magazines, they are common, not to costly and small/light weight. Add three or four boxes of .22 ammo, a hollowpoint varminter type round would work well for self defense in a pinch as well as for hunting small game. You can take down squirrel, rabbit, birds and snakes. This is your primary game gun, you will encounter more small game and it will be easier to get than anything larger.
Glock 21, Love mine. A .45 is good enough for a defense weapon. Just remember, if you have to rely on a pistol for defense, things went terribly terribly wrong! Figure about three highcap mags, maybe even four. Again, rounds run out fast in a gun fight! And a spare box or two of ammo. Remeber, this is not your primary weapon!
Optional but it would be nice item:
Remington 870 w/ folding or removable stock and pistol grip. It can go in the pack to be brought out as the tactical situation dictates. A 20-22 inch barrel with extended magazine tube. A side saddle and a stock shell holder one with buckshot, one with slug so you have a ready supply of ammo, and a mix of about 100 round in the pack. So, this could be left behind.
Remember, between a good .22 and a decent rifle, you could take the same type of game as you can with a shotgun, you just need to be a bit more patient. However, in my view, a shotgun is a better close quarters system than a pistol.
As the others have said, its better to be invisible, either by no one knowing you are there. Or by being able to blend in with a throng of refugees and thus being ignored.
Your last paragraph displays great wisdom, the thinking of a true survivalist!!!
Having been assigned to the dark realm of one of our countries sneakiest units, I can say the 22lr. rd. is the best all around survival rd. out there. One can take out beast & men . You just have to get good with it,and that takes practice.
It’s not the weapon of choice for the Israeli hit team for nothing!
The next would be the 30-06.(and you don’t need a big a$$ scope) with a Leupold 1.5x 5 Illuminated reticle.
The rd. was designed as a 1000 yrd. rd. from the beginning and if you do your part you can keep it between the nipples at that distance. Again it just takes practice. I say this as a current sniper and a sniper rifle gunsmith.
The rd. is the most available rd. in the world. If you don’t believe me, check the shelve out at any hardware store when thae shelves are empty at the popular gun stores.
There is a very practical reason for carrying as many weapons as you, comfortably, can: (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35977) Pay special attention to #4…”Because when Armaggedon strikes, and you rush to the gunstore and the only box of ammo they have left is 6.5 x 55mm and you have nothing to shoot it out of…well, aren’t you going to feel pretty darn foolish.”
Definitely have at least a rifle, shotgun and handgun chambered in something common (.223 or .308, 12 GA and 9mm, .45?), but it wouldn’t be a bad situation if you were the only guy withing 30 or 40 miles actually carrying that gun chambered in something that nobody else can use…you’ll be the king of some really obscure crap.
Where do you go once you leave the city? Do you know the trails “out there?”
Take your kids hiking and camping, learn the landmarks, make notes on blind-corners, caves, ambush spots so you’ll know where to avoid and where to take shelter.
Make a game out of it; teach your kids how to spot these things you’re looking for (they may even end up teaching you something).
I agree with the above post, you should really carry something chambered in a common caliber. If you decide to go with semi-auto like myself then make sure you have extra mags. I have a Beretta 92 and a Beretta CX4 carbine rifle. Probably not the best option for the rifle, but the rifle is adapted so it accepts my 92fs mags. Same mags same ammo, I think the pros outweigh the cons
I onece heard a marine say” if I have to use my pistol over my carbine, things have gone horrably wrong”. My bugout bag has no firearm in it. It is in my cars trunk, with my SKS. Something I can put down if the need calls for it. There’s a stainless Mod 64 .38 Special under my seat, where it belongs. And where I can get to it when I need It. As for ammo, the .38 is loaded with two extra speed loaders in the door, and the SKS has two stripper clips in my tackle box, also in the trunkwith my fishing gear. Afterall, we are talking about a 72 hour bag, are we not?..
For $12 you can not go wrong with a siphon pump. It is a bit of plastic tube and a small hand pump for all kinds of liquids. If you have the equipment above, the ability to pull gasoline out of another parked car is a good thing. Just before Katrina hit, gas stations were closed for miles.
http://www.amazon.com/K-Tool-International-KTI72250-Mult-Siphon/dp/B0015DQFMI
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